Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[kilowatt]

My take is that we do need to let Brown, Moore etc crap the bed until prospects are ready to take their minutes. The debate needs to be about them being ready or not, with Kaliyev and Grundström definitely knocking on the door. It has to be about what is best for player development but until someone properly breaks through (and breaks out) questions will remain, understandably. There is no track record of developing skilled players (maybe Kempe) so the angst is fair especially when certain decisions are questionable.

But we have at least two guys who have played a significant number of games in the NHL — Vilardi and JAD — who haven't been given much of a chance this season.

It's not like Vilardi would have big shoes to fill right now to replace Brown's production. Let Brown take Moore's spot and plug in Vilardi next to Kopitar. Give it five or ten games. Even if he absolutely drops the ball, at least then we'll know. Vilardi's 44% OZ% is lower even than Danault and Kopitar, and yet the only players this entire season that have a lower time on ice per game are Lemieux, Lizotte, Kupari, Andersson, Kaliyev, and Tynan.

It's just still hard for me to believe that Vilardi would be a liability on both offense and defense next to Danault or Kopitar with Iafallo or Kempe on the other wing.

 

[Piston]

I don't know why it is diffcult to have an honest discussion with Brown along the lines of 'Dustin, you are a franchise icon and will be the first of the Cup winners to have your number retired. But, we are not going to re-sign you next season, and if you want to continue your career, we would be happy to find a trading partner if one exists. As to this season, you are going to play as many minutes as you earn, and you may be supplanted'.

It's not like this guy has earned the right to permanently be in the line up based on his history with the team. Professional sports is about current production, not nostalgia. He's lifted the Cup twice and made $50mm+. It's not as if we are treating him unfairly. I don't get the 'kid's glove' treatment.

 

[KingsFan7824]

It takes talent to develop talent.
They have the "deepest" prospect pool of forwards. Excuses are going to run out very soon if they can't get these kids over the hump.

But how much does real talent need to be developed? Most of your top scorers in the league were just top 3/5 overall picks. A few lower picks sprinkled in here and there. The Wild didn't really develop Kaprizov.

You can "develop" a gem sometimes, but usually talent makes itself obvious. Even the most stubborn of coaches can't suppress it that long.

You can steer talent the wrong way I guess, but the top 10 of drafts are littered with guys that just were never going to have it beyond the junior level. Or, weren't going to truly be difference makers, but could still have a solid career.

I think the initial talent evaluation might be more crucial than the later development. I don't know that you can develop the touch of a 40 goal NHLer. You have it, or you don't. The reason the draft isn't a science is that you don't know who will be great, no matter what you do with them. If anyone knew Pavelski had that it factor, he's not a throwaway 7th rd pick.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't know why it is diffcult to have an honest discussion with Brown along the lines of 'Dustin, you are a franchise icon and will be the first of the Cup winners to have your number retired. But, we are not going to re-sign you next season, and if you want to continue your career, we would be happy to find a trading partner if one exists. As to this season, you are going to play as many minutes as you earn, and you may be supplanted'.

It's not like this guy has earned the right to permanently be in the line up based on his history with the team. Professional sports is about current production, not nostalgia. He's lifted the Cup twice and made $50mm+. It's not as if we are treating him unfairly. I don't get the 'kid's glove' treatment.

Same reason DL couldn't say no to Richards in that cottage in the Canadian wilderness.

 

[Piston]

Same reason DL couldn't say no to Richards in that cottage in the Canadian wilderness.

I'm sure you're correct- you have to be an a**hole I guess to be a succesful GM. Look at Bill Bellichick.

 

[bland]

Perreault - Kaliyev
Dostal - ?
Pastujov - Fagemo

If the prospects develop on both sides the Anaheim LA rivalry could get very good very soon

And Team Canada has Zellweger over Clarke.

Anaheim is loaded and in much better position to acclimate young players into their lineup than the Kings. There is no artificial pecking order tied into a Cup win 8 years ago, no designs to get Getzlaf another Cup before he retires, and they will only add to their pool when they deal Rakell and Manson later in the year.

They embraced their rebuild. The Kings keep postponing their results to try and accomplish grooming and a playoff run at the same time. Neither is being accomplished, and it is yet another reason to believe that there is nobody within the teams management group that knows how to do either effectively.

The Kings are hoping to make the playoffs and hoping the skilled prospects develop into stars. They need to decide which path to follow and concentrate on it. Since the older vets are simply no longer good enough to win, the clear choice is to go young.

In order for that to succeed, they have to put prospects in the position to thrive. That isn't just line placement, its responsibility, its encouragement, its allowing skill to show first before being coached to settle down. Not being afraid to hurt the playoff chances by playing aggressively instead of safely. If the kids are the best players that night, no, you don't put Kopitar and Brown out in the last minute. If Durzi is killing it from the point, you don't give Doughty a minute and a half of every powerplay. You take Brown off the PP and put Kaliyev down low. You waive Athanasiou. You don't bench Grundstrom for a week when he had just played the best two games of his career. You cycle kids in and out to get a taste and see what they have to work on.

 

[bland]

Same reason DL couldn't say no to Richards in that cottage in the Canadian wilderness.

No it isn't.

Richards just came off of three straight Conference Finals appearances and two Cups. He had an addiction and was being told to seek treatment.

Brown has won one stinking playoff game since that very moment in the cottage 7 years ago. He is old and it ain't coming back.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

But how much does real talent need to be developed? Most of your top scorers in the league were just top 3/5 overall picks. A few lower picks sprinkled in here and there. The Wild didn't really develop Kaprizov.

You can "develop" a gem sometimes, but usually talent makes itself obvious. Even the most stubborn of coaches can't suppress it that long.

You can steer talent the wrong way I guess, but the top 10 of drafts are littered with guys that just were never going to have it beyond the junior level. Or, weren't going to truly be difference makers, but could still have a solid career.

I think the initial talent evaluation might be more crucial than the later development. I don't know that you can develop the touch of a 40 goal NHLer. You have it, or you don't. The reason the draft isn't a science is that you don't know who will be great, no matter what you do with them. If anyone knew Pavelski had that it factor, he's not a throwaway 7th rd pick.

I tend to agree with this for lottery picks in general. There's only so much you can do for those guys. Glen Murray isn't teaching McDavid how to score. But for someone like Byfield, you can at least hone checking detail, for Kaliyev you can work on skating etc...but it shouldn't be make or break.

That being said we often talk about not shoving guys into roles they're not ready for, ie. 18 year old jack hughes top line winger, RNH being given the 1C hopes of a franchise etc....but we are literally doing the polar opposite, playing guys DOWN the lineup not just in the NHL, but in the AHL, and for duration.

 

[Statto]

But we have at least two guys who have played a significant number of games in the NHL — Vilardi and JAD — who haven't been given much of a chance this season.

It's not like Vilardi would have big shoes to fill right now to replace Brown's production. Let Brown take Moore's spot and plug in Vilardi next to Kopitar. Give it five or ten games. Even if he absolutely drops the ball, at least then we'll know. Vilardi's 44% OZ% is lower even than Danault and Kopitar, and yet the only players this entire season that have a lower time on ice per game are Lemieux, Lizotte, Kupari, Andersson, Kaliyev, and Tynan.

It's just still hard for me to believe that Vilardi would be a liability on both offense and defense next to Danault or Kopitar with Iafallo or Kempe on the other wing.

I agree on JAD 100% but in fairness Lizotte is fighting hard for that 4C spot. They probably feel JAD can get more quality minutes in the AHL to hit his offensive ceiling whilst Lizotte is doing the business. I’d have him in the NHL after the TDL regardless of injury or Lizottes play but that’s just me.

Vilardi is a conundrum because he clearly has a truck load of talent. The problem is that he hasn’t delivered to date (even allowing for his experience) and whilst we can complain about his deployment his foot speed is an issue and his intensity is my biggest concern. They’ve sent him down to adjust to playing wing and again he is worrying me because his body language looks very poor. He should be absolutely dominant in the AHL but isn’t and I’m worried. I love the kid and he has heart to come through all his problems. Maybe he figured this was going to be the easy bit and he needs a reset for the battle for a roster spot? Maybe. I’m looking for reasons because if he hits anything close to his ceiling it’ll be one hell of a story. The problem is that he doesn’t seem to be making a compelling case for a recall and I really hope I’m completely wrong.

 

[BigKing]

Arguing about this franchise is almost as exhausting as watching them play at this point.

I am appreciating the heel turn from RJ though. Nice plot twist.

 

[tny760]

Arguing about this franchise is almost as exhausting as watching them play at this point.

I am appreciating the heel turn from RJ though. Nice plot twist.

whole week without a game too, it's gonna be going for a while

 

[tbrown33]

But we have at least two guys who have played a significant number of games in the NHL — Vilardi and JAD — who haven't been given much of a chance this season.

It's not like Vilardi would have big shoes to fill right now to replace Brown's production. Let Brown take Moore's spot and plug in Vilardi next to Kopitar. Give it five or ten games. Even if he absolutely drops the ball, at least then we'll know. Vilardi's 44% OZ% is lower even than Danault and Kopitar, and yet the only players this entire season that have a lower time on ice per game are Lemieux, Lizotte, Kupari, Andersson, Kaliyev, and Tynan.

It's just still hard for me to believe that Vilardi would be a liability on both offense and defense next to Danault or Kopitar with Iafallo or Kempe on the other wing.

imo, if you REALLY want to shelter someone like Vilardi...put him with Danault/Iaffalo. They feast on maintaining possession down low, which fits with Vilardi's play style. They can also forecheck better than Vilardi and get to pucks quicker in the corners, which pairs nicely with Vilardi's finishing ability. Kopitar would be better served with someone who has a motor like Turcotte or even Byfield on his wing.

 

[kings11]

imo, if you REALLY want to shelter someone like Vilardi...put him with Danault/Iaffalo. They feast on maintaining possession down low, which fits with Vilardi's play style. They can also forecheck better than Vilardi and get to pucks quicker in the corners, which pairs nicely with Vilardi's finishing ability. Kopitar would be better served with someone who has a motor like Turcotte or even Byfield on his wing.

So what your saying is…
Turcotte-Kopitar-Brown
Iafallo-Danault-Vilardi
Kempe-Byfield-Ardvisson
Pepe-Lizotte-JAD
Pretty much my whole argument that two vets and a kid is how the lines should be constructed

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So what your saying is…
Turcotte-Kopitar-Brown
Iafallo-Danault-Vilardi
Kempe-Byfield-Ardvisson
Pepe-Lizotte-JAD
Pretty much my whole argument that two vets and a kid is how the lines should be constructed

I've been pushing something like this all year (don't forget Kaliyev though) and it's usually met with 'oh you just want to hand guys minutes' instead of the realization that there could be no better support for development then being able to skate, sit, and ask questions next to Anze Kopitar/Brown or Danault/Iafallo even on a part time basis. That was really what I was under the impression we were going to do this year...

 

[tbrown33]

So what your saying is…
Turcotte-Kopitar-Brown
Iafallo-Danault-Vilardi
Kempe-Byfield-Ardvisson
Pepe-Lizotte-JAD
Pretty much my whole argument that two vets and a kid is how the lines should be constructed

Too many f***ers on this team to come up with different bottom 6 configurations (although your line 3 looks like it would probably be more effective than your Kopitar line, they would DOMINATE possession), but if the top 6 were up to me, this is what I would try first:

Kempe - Kopitar - Byfield (I want him playing a lot)
Iafallo - Danault - Vilardi

and for shits n giggles, powerplay:

Byfield
Kopitar - Kempe - Kaliyev
Doughty

 

[Schmooley]

So what your saying is…
Turcotte-Kopitar-Brown
Iafallo-Danault-Vilardi
Kempe-Byfield-Ardvisson
Pepe-Lizotte-JAD
Pretty much my whole argument that two vets and a kid is how the lines should be constructed

Yea that looks good. But keep Kaliyev in there. Rotate Andersson and Grundstrom in if guys arent playing well. See where they are at by the deadline and look to move their ufas in Brown, AA, Maatta. Try and get looks to Clarke and if another guy starts breaking out at WJC like Chromiak or Helenius.
This isnt rocket science and not controversial like people on here are making it out to be

 

[kings11]

Too many f***ers on this team to come up with different bottom 6 configurations, but if the top 6 were up to me, this is what I would try first:

Kempe - Kopitar - Byfield (I want him playing a lot)
Iafallo - Danault - Vilardi

and for shits n giggles, powerplay:

Byfield
Kopitar - Kempe - Kaliyev
Doughty

Truth be told, I’d go balls out and go this way
Turcotte-Kopitar-Byfield
Iafallo-Danault-Vilardi
Unpopular ops here but maybe capitalize on Kempe’s value and create a package for Chychrun?

 

[kings11]

Yea that looks good. But keep Kaliyev in there. Rotate Andersson and Grundstrom in if guys arent playing well. See where they are at by the deadline and look to move their ufas in Brown, AA, Maatta. Try and get looks to Clarke and if another guy starts breaking out at WJC like Chromiak or Helenius.
This isnt rocket science and not controversial like people on here are making it out to be

Fudge… I forgot about Kaliyev, he’s doing fine on the 4th line rounding out his game but he should get more PPT

 

[tbrown33]

Truth be told, I’d go balls out and go this way
Turcotte-Kopitar-Byfield
Iafallo-Danault-Vilardi
Unpopular ops here but maybe capitalize on Kempe’s value and create a package for Chychrun?

Maybe, just hard to trade the only guy that's actually burying the puck consistently for a guy that isn't (although adding Chychrun would be great regardless).

 

[Schmooley]

Fudge… I forgot about Kaliyev, he’s doing fine on the 4th line rounding out his game but he should get more PPT

Yea the 4th line is producing so it wouldnt be smart to break them up right now. But as said before if you move the ufas at the deadline it opens up Browns spot and maybe Kaliyev will be ready by then to handle the minutes.

 

[Piston]

Yea the 4th line is producing so it wouldnt be smart to break them up right now. But as said before if you move the ufas at the deadline it opens up Browns spot and maybe Kaliyev will be ready by then to handle the minutes.

The guy who has earned a shot at Brown's role is Grundstrom. He has a physical presence, goes to the hard areas and has surprised with his hands. Give the guy a real shot to see what we have.

 

[kilowatt]

So what your saying is…
Turcotte-Kopitar-Brown
Iafallo-Danault-Vilardi
Kempe-Byfield-Ardvisson
Pepe-Lizotte-JAD
Pretty much my whole argument that two vets and a kid is how the lines should be constructed

That's what I've been saying since preseason!

GDT: - 2021-22 Season game 1 LA Kings vs Vegas Golden Knights @7:30pm 10/14/21

 

[LAKings88]

I’ve said it before:

The team is still in transition. More spots will be open next year.

I don’t like arguments based on “surfers” or “good ol boys” rhetoric without real evidence or tangible points. So much goes into a decision that we have no privy of. Not all grips are wrong and it’s ok to be critical but if you argument comes from these areas I have no time for you.

I get having concerns about development but I also think you need to give them a minute to try and develop. It a chicken before egg problem the board seems to be imbued in lately imho. I’ve heard that the NHL isn’t a development league many times on this board. Most teams/real life jobs function with veterans to guide the incoming prospects. Kaliyev is a decent prospect but he will be like a Toffoli. He also is kept on a line that is succeeding. I think that has a lot to do with why he isn’t on other lines. Dude is getting first line PP minutes too. Clague hasn’t taken Montreal by storm and may just not be all that. I think Durzi is what we hoped Clague would be. Is it development, player responsibility, a bit of both?

Some concerns have just permeated every thread. It gets old but it is what it is. People are frustrated but again, I think it is still a process and the next era hasn’t even begun yet. It’s hard to watch this transition when expectations are high for the future. The Kings do need to make forward progress this year tho. The stagnant bs of the last five years has ground many a fan down.

Oops meant to edit.

 

[Reaper45]

I would personally rock this lineup...

Turcotte-Kopitar-Arvidsson
Iafallo-Danault-Vilardi
Kempe-Byfield-Lemieux
JAD-Lizotte-Brown
Kaliyev rotates in with Brown and either plays where Lemieux is or on the 4th line.

 

[King'sPawn]

I've been pushing something like this all year (don't forget Kaliyev though) and it's usually met with 'oh you just want to hand guys minutes' instead of the realization that there could be no better support for development then being able to skate, sit, and ask questions next to Anze Kopitar/Brown or Danault/Iafallo even on a part time basis. That was really what I was under the impression we were going to do this year...

And...!

If they struggle, then reel back the responsibility. Basically, give the forward prospects the same treatment as the defensive prospects.

1) Put them in the role you see them playing in
2) give them some time to acclimate, unless they are legitimately overwhelmed
3) reduce the responsibilities or send them to the AHL to work on their game/role.

The handling of the forward prospects is almost 100% the reverse of this. They are put in a reduced role so they can "learn" to grind. Then if a vet is terrible, play the prospect in his place and demote the vet as a "punishment". Then when the vet "learns his lesson" or the forward prospect takes too long to change from a grinder to a scorer, put the prospect back in the bottom-6 role.

There are enough forward prospects and underachieving vets that A PROSPECT would be getting regular time in the top 6. The strawman argument of "you just want to GIVE ice time" is the only defense when they aren't paying attention.