Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster discussion

[HookKing]

The only "culture" change the team needs is better players.

 

[BigKing]

What the Kings should be doing now is avoiding long term contracts (greater than three years) unless that player is young and we are as confident that they will be a long term impact player for us.

We should have already identified prospects in our system that are expendable based on our superior knowledge of our prospect pool and look to include them in trades that take advantage of our cap space and other teams lack of cap space to acquire young long term impact players for our organization that you would not normally be available. Winning trades and using our strengths to take advantage of other teams weaknesses to acquire long term pieces should absolutely be a part of our rebuild.

There is going to be some risk and luck involved with building a cup contender. There is no surefire way to do it. We can continue to tank and get shit luck in the lottery or get bad injuries that derail a promising career. We can make the wrong draft picks (which almost always happens anyways, it's extremely rare that you pick the best player available in a draft, you draft these guys at 18 yrs old from a variety of different leagues in a variety of different circumstances after all).

If the Kings are going to be a cup contender alot has to go right and tbh alot already had to go right. And Kings are going to probably have to find difference makers outside of the first round anyway.

Bingo.

Doughty was the only DL first round pick via sucking so much ass that was a key contributor to the Cup teams outside of Pearson who was drafted after the Kings had already won a Cup. Kopitar and Brown were the other Kings 1st rounders taken at 11 and 13, respectively, although Kopitar's fall was laughable even at the time and Brown fell in what is arguably the greatest draft of all time. DL had to go and add two more first round picks from that '03 draft to push this team over the top.

This is what I am saying about how everyone crows over the "top rated prospect pool". Look at DL's drafts and remember that the Kings had a Top 5 rated pool for several years. Now he added O'Sullivan to that at one point and then Jack Johnson helped the list for a year but his picks aren't that great. His picks that were key contributors to the Cup era (excluding Bernier who never played a playoff game) along with overall draft position:

Lewis (17)
Martinez (95)
King (109)
Doughty (2)
Voynov (32)
Clifford (35)
Nolan (186)
Toffoli (47)
Pearson (30)

That's an average draft position of 61. Nolan might skew it lower but Doughty skews it higher. Either way, that's across seven drafts and some of those guys only really contributed to one of the Cups as opposed to both. DL somewhat whiffed on Bernier, Hickey never played a game for the Kings, Teubert was his worst pick ever and then Schenn was used for Richards along with Simmonds, another good player taken outside of the first round. Forbort took like 20 years to become an NHL regular. When it comes to first round picks, DL largely sucked and had to make trades to acquire former first round picks in Johnson, Smyth, Williams, Richards, Carter, Regehr and Gaborik. Even Stoll and Greene were Top 50 themselves.

Those top ranked Lombardi pools had guys like Hickey, Bernier, Purcell, Teubert, Moller all routinely in the Top 5. There was no "Martinez and King are why this pool is so good". So yeah, we might already have some legit guys from the later rounds but we also probably have some busts amongst Blake's 1st and 2nd round picks. I agree that our scouting staff should know the value of these guys more than any other team and it is wise to cut bait on some if they feel the prospect doesn't have what it takes.

Cup winning teams generally have a good amount of players with high draft pedigree on the roster. The Kings were no different but Lombardi had to trade for these additional first rounders and--in the case of "difference makers" Smyth/Williams/Richards/Carter--he traded a former 1st round pick and/or highly regarded young player in each trade. Carter included a future #1 as well. The Kings aren't at the point of a Carter type trade yet but they are definitely in that Smyth/Williams range.

Williams was 27 when he was traded here. Depressed value a bit due to injuries. Gave the Kings a lot of solid years. Reinhart is 26 in November. Possible depressed value since he is RFA and may want to bolt. Draft pedigree. That's the kind of deal where it makes sense long term as well and you cash in a bit of futures for a proven commodity while still holding a lot of futures.

 

[kinghock]

LOL...ok. You're calling Blake and Luc liars today. If you're right I'll be calling them liars in 3 months. My guess is that it will be some of both but that you are likely to be more unhappy with this summer than I will be. Changes are coming...some that you probably won't like and one or two that you might actually hate. I'll leave it at that.

Your guess is good as anybody, but maybe it will not correct one…

 

[AlphaBravo]

The only "culture" change the team needs is better players.

Exactly. We simply don't have talent, and have a bunch of role and depth players. The reality is that a lot of our prospects may not pan out. I am willing to hold out hope for some and keep them, like Byfield, Kaliyev and Bjornfot (because we are low on D), but open to trading Turcotte and a few of the others for a guaranteed top 6 forward, such as Eichel (assuming injury clears). Will Eichel alone make us a contender, of course not. But he is a step in the right direction. Should we trade all of our prospects for old vets? Of course not, but we don't need to do that if the deal is something in the line of Turcotte, our 1st this year, and another prospect not Byfield or Kaliyev.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Johnson was still considered a top 4 defenseman with potential at that point. Would you trade Bjornfot and a 1st for a top 6 forward? That just opens up a hole on the blueline, Voynov filled the hole opened up with the departure of JJ.

Jack Johnson sucked and Jeff Carter was very very good. We absolutely destroyed Columbus in that trade. I'm always willing to murder teams in trades...

 

[SFKingshomer]

Jack Johnson sucked and Jeff Carter was very very good. We absolutely destroyed Columbus in that trade. I'm always willing to murder teams in trades...

That wasn’t the case at the time and we had Voynov to fill his spot in the lineup. It’s a completely different scenario than most are suggesting because the Kings aren’t as far along as that team was.

 

[apadilla]

I don't like or dislike Blake. I'd prefer to bring Lombardi back if we are being completely honest. This team needs a kick in the nuts and a culture change from top to bottom.

He did a wonderful job setting the stage for the two cups. Great trades like Stoll and Greene, Carter, and Regehr. They kicked. But his Post Cup trades were not (Sekera in, Lucic in, Cernak out). Which Dean would we get?

As far as our defense goes, I think if we traded for a rough defenseman (similar to Greene or Regehr), it would partially rub off on the newbies. Watching the playoffs reminds me of how clearing the crease is needed and done.

 

[tomd]

That wasn’t the case at the time and we had Voynov to fill his spot in the lineup. It’s a completely different scenario than most are suggesting because the Kings aren’t as far along as that team was.

Add two legit top 6 forwards and a top 4 LHD and the Kings should make the playoffs in 21-22. Does that mean they'll win the SC? Of course not. But at least the team will be functional. If they don't make the playoffs next year I think you'll see a level of dysfunction that will rival the current Buffalo situation. Could they work through that dysfunction over the next 5 years? Sure. Just like Buffalo could. But I'd put no better than even money on it and it won't be with Blake at the helm.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Add two legit top 6 forwards and a top 4 LHD and the Kings should make the playoffs in 21-22. Does that mean they'll win the SC? Of course not. But at least the team will be functional. If they don't make the playoffs next year I think you'll see a level of dysfunction that will rival the current Buffalo situation. Could they work through that dysfunction over the next 5 years? Sure. Just like Buffalo could. But I'd put no better than even money on it and it won't be with Blake at the helm.

And what cap space and prospects would they have left to put them into the contender category because that’s what I’m after. Colorado seems to be doing fine despite years of being terrible. I’d argue that the only reason they’re good is because they sucked ass for so long. MacKinnon #1, Landeskog #2, Makar #4, Rantanen #10 and it took several years of development to get to this point. They still haven’t traded a 1st or top prospect…

 

[KINGS17]

Until now, when fans called their GM a liar it was because they hated him. Now we have fans calling Blake a liar because they like him. Interesting...

I didn't see anyone saying they like Blake. Many know what is realistic vs marketing BS.

 

[KINGS17]

And what cap space and prospects would they have left to put them into the contender category because that’s what I’m after. Colorado seems to be doing fine despite years of being terrible. I’d argue that the only reason they’re good is because they sucked ass for so long. MacKinnon #1, Landeskog #2, Makar #4, Rantanen #10 and it took several years of development to get to this point. They still haven’t traded a 1st or top prospect…

Colorado received a huge break when MacKinnon broke out after he received his second contract had been signed.

 

[kings11]

Bingo.

Doughty was the only DL first round pick via sucking so much ass that was a key contributor to the Cup teams outside of Pearson who was drafted after the Kings had already won a Cup. Kopitar and Brown were the other Kings 1st rounders taken at 11 and 13, respectively, although Kopitar's fall was laughable even at the time and Brown fell in what is arguably the greatest draft of all time. DL had to go and add two more first round picks from that '03 draft to push this team over the top.

This is what I am saying about how everyone crows over the "top rated prospect pool". Look at DL's drafts and remember that the Kings had a Top 5 rated pool for several years. Now he added O'Sullivan to that at one point and then Jack Johnson helped the list for a year but his picks aren't that great. His picks that were key contributors to the Cup era (excluding Bernier who never played a playoff game) along with overall draft position:

Lewis (17)
Martinez (95)
King (109)
Doughty (2)
Voynov (32)
Clifford (35)
Nolan (186)
Toffoli (47)
Pearson (30)

That's an average draft position of 61. Nolan might skew it lower but Doughty skews it higher. Either way, that's across seven drafts and some of those guys only really contributed to one of the Cups as opposed to both. DL somewhat whiffed on Bernier, Hickey never played a game for the Kings, Teubert was his worst pick ever and then Schenn was used for Richards along with Simmonds, another good player taken outside of the first round. Forbort took like 20 years to become an NHL regular. When it comes to first round picks, DL largely sucked and had to make trades to acquire former first round picks in Johnson, Smyth, Williams, Richards, Carter, Regehr and Gaborik. Even Stoll and Greene were Top 50 themselves.

Those top ranked Lombardi pools had guys like Hickey, Bernier, Purcell, Teubert, Moller all routinely in the Top 5. There was no "Martinez and King are why this pool is so good". So yeah, we might already have some legit guys from the later rounds but we also probably have some busts amongst Blake's 1st and 2nd round picks. I agree that our scouting staff should know the value of these guys more than any other team and it is wise to cut bait on some if they feel the prospect doesn't have what it takes.

Cup winning teams generally have a good amount of players with high draft pedigree on the roster. The Kings were no different but Lombardi had to trade for these additional first rounders and--in the case of "difference makers" Smyth/Williams/Richards/Carter--he traded a former 1st round pick and/or highly regarded young player in each trade. Carter included a future #1 as well. The Kings aren't at the point of a Carter type trade yet but they are definitely in that Smyth/Williams range.

Williams was 27 when he was traded here. Depressed value a bit due to injuries. Gave the Kings a lot of solid years. Reinhart is 26 in November. Possible depressed value since he is RFA and may want to bolt. Draft pedigree. That's the kind of deal where it makes sense long term as well and you cash in a bit of futures for a proven commodity while still holding a lot of futures.

I wonder what a Sean Monahan would command?
Then take a run at Palmieri, Coleman, Hoffman..

maybe a package for both Monahan and Hanifin

 

[tomd]

And what cap space and prospects would they have left to put them into the contender category because that’s what I’m after. Colorado seems to be doing fine despite years of being terrible. I’d argue that the only reason they’re good is because they sucked ass for so long. MacKinnon #1, Landeskog #2, Makar #4, Rantanen #10 and it took several years of development to get to this point. They still haven’t traded a 1st or top prospect…

Colorado didn't start their rebuild with a #1D future HOFer still in his prime nor did they start with a #1C future HOFer who is still a great hockey player...both of whom are in the 8-digit annual salary bracket for several years into the future. Those things make a difference that you just consistently gloss over or outright discount as unimportant.

You and I just have a basic and unreconcilable difference of opinion.

You believe that the Kings can just ignore 8 and 11 and continue to miss the playoffs or - even better - continue to get top 5 picks for the next 3-4 years. While that might be the ideal rebuild situation, it is extremely unrealistic IMO given that 8 and 11 are still on the team.

I believe the organization wants to continue to rebuild but also knows it needs to at least try to make the playoffs in 21-22. That is their stated goal and I don't think they are lying about it. I do believe (and hope) that they are sick of losing and ready to turn the corner.

One thing I hope you and I can agree on is that there will be more NHL level talent on the team come opening day. I don't know how much it will cost nor do I know if it will lead to significant improvement but there will be changes. Maybe they'll be big and exciting or maybe they'll be small and modest. We'll probably have a very good idea by the end of July which one it is.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Shane O'Brien threw out Jaden Schwartz's name on SXM. They are friends and he said he has interest in LA and is a great character guy. Wonder if the Kings go after him for the middle six.

 

[Schmooley]

You believe that the Kings can just ignore 8 and 11 and continue to miss the playoffs or - even better - continue to get top 5 picks for the next 3-4 years. While that might be the ideal rebuild situation, it is extremely unrealistic IMO given that 8 and 11 are still on the team

Its not that unrealistic at all considering they missed the playoffs and got top 5 picks without ignoring 8 and 11 while only trading their teammates and buddies after they themselves tanked.
Everyone has a different idea of how it should be fixed on here it seems. Really Ive never seen it so divided. It will be interesting to see how it plays out!

 

[SFKingshomer]

Colorado didn't start their rebuild with a #1D future HOFer still in his prime nor did they start with a #1C future HOFer who is still a great hockey player...both of whom are in the 8-digit annual salary bracket for several years into the future. Those things make a difference that you just consistently gloss over or outright discount as unimportant.

You and I just have a basic and unreconcilable difference of opinion.

You believe that the Kings can just ignore 8 and 11 and continue to miss the playoffs or - even better - continue to get top 5 picks for the next 3-4 years. While that might be the ideal rebuild situation, it is extremely unrealistic IMO given that 8 and 11 are still on the team.

I believe the organization wants to continue to rebuild but also knows it needs to at least try to make the playoffs in 21-22. That is their stated goal and I don't think they are lying about it. I do believe (and hope) that they are sick of losing and ready to turn the corner.

One thing I hope you and I can agree on is that there will be more NHL level talent on the team come opening day. I don't know how much it will cost nor do I know if it will lead to significant improvement but there will be changes. Maybe they'll be big and exciting or maybe they'll be small and modest. We'll probably have a very good idea by the end of July which one it is.

Hawks have done similar to LA and are closer to the playoffs. All I’m saying is Colorado has taken a long time and had multiple high picks.

 

[bland]

The only "culture" change the team needs is better players.

Swing and a miss.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Until now, when fans called their GM a liar it was because they hated him. Now we have fans calling Blake a liar because they like him. Interesting...

Or maybe people in general can spot the lies?

 

[Lt Dan]

Or maybe people in general can spot the lies?

 

[Mats26]

And what cap space and prospects would they have left to put them into the contender category because that’s what I’m after. Colorado seems to be doing fine despite years of being terrible. I’d argue that the only reason they’re good is because they sucked ass for so long. MacKinnon #1, Landeskog #2, Makar #4, Rantanen #10 and it took several years of development to get to this point. They still haven’t traded a 1st or top prospect…

Did they win a cup yet after all those suffering years? Now they are facing eliminaton, and with a summer cap crunch to deal with. Losing when rebuidling is one thing, losing in the playoffs with a stacked team and cap issues is Maple Leaf West territory.

Funny no one talks about the islanders. All they did is have their star captain walk for free and hire the right coach\GM. Now they are contenders.

 

[The Lukeman]

I know this is a whiles away, but I could see P.K. Subban coming to LA after next season on a cheap veteran's contract. Just something that crossed my mind, and honestly wouldn't mind it for a bottom pairing defenseman. He spends his summers here, just landed an ESPN analyst job (ESPN Headquarters is in LA, remains to be seen where their hockey ops takes place). Has a lot of close ties here, including being good friends of the Buss family.

 

[kingsholygrail]

We really don't need another Kovalchuk.

 

[Mats26]

I know this is a whiles away, but I could see P.K. Subban coming to LA after next season on a cheap veteran's contract. Just something that crossed my mind, and honestly wouldn't mind it for a bottom pairing defenseman. He spends his summers here, just landed an ESPN analyst job (ESPN Headquarters is in LA, remains to be seen where their hockey ops takes place). Has a lot of close ties here, including being good friends of the Buss family.

He'll fit right in with this country club. No thanks. His NHL days are practically done. And by that time we should be getting close to looking like an NHL team too. Time to get serious with who we bring in.

 

[KINGS17]

I know this is a whiles away, but I could see P.K. Subban coming to LA after next season on a cheap veteran's contract. Just something that crossed my mind, and honestly wouldn't mind it for a bottom pairing defenseman. He spends his summers here, just landed an ESPN analyst job (ESPN Headquarters is in LA, remains to be seen where their hockey ops takes place). Has a lot of close ties here, including being good friends of the Buss family.

Smacks of Blake's last tour with the Kings.

 

[fsanford]

Anybody else thing Alec Martinez comes back to the Kings next year. I think he would be a great asset to help further develop the Kings young D core.