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Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

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bland said:
Clague was 10th on the depth chart leaving camp. Wolanin was lost to waivers, Doughty and Walker were hurt. He outplayed one guy ahead of him, Strand, then outplayed Maatta once he got here. He wasn't handed anything, he earned it through circumstances THEN merit.

Kaliyev getting 4th line 5 x 5 minutes is perfectly fine, but seeing as how miserable the PP is going with two inept forwards getting opportunities that they have actively lost without trying your best weapon is very confusing.
Click to expand...

He's been on the PP for the past couple weeks?

And the argument that Clague should have broke camp with LA right? Why?
 
Choralone said:
Todd has to balance his two mandates from management this year:
1) Develop the rookies
2) Make the playoffs

To do the second he can't just go hog-wild with the rookies. Also, didn't we have conversations how a losing culture on the big team is harmful for development? I think the team's "attitude" - as much as can be gleaned from watching them play - is night-and-day compared to last year, even when they were on the losing streak earlier this season.

Edit: changed "loosing" to "losing"
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He's going too hard to make the playoffs. Even last year when the playoffs were a non possibility he still played the vets and the kids barely got a sniff. The guy has never had to develop young talent. Have zero clue why this guy was hired and paid 5 million per to boot
 
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In 4 weeks, would like to see:

Kempe-Kopitar-Arvidsson
Iafallo-Danault-Athanasiou
Andersson-Byfield-Kaliyev
Lemiuex-Kupari-Moore

Clague Doughty
Bjornfot Anderson
Eeedler Roy
 
Schmooley said:
Why do people keep saying kaliyev is where he belongs? He was the best player on the team in that st louis home game. He has scoring potential that no one else does. He has shown flashes in the nhl. Play him in the top six for a couple weeks and let him lose coverages and do drop passes to nobody that will lead to goals against. If he cant clean it up after a couple weeks then send him to Ontario with a list for him and the coach to focus in on. Right now hes learning how to play like a bottom six player and that may be what he turns into if thats what they are asking of him.
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So play a guy to do whatever he wants and if he can't correct it, send him down. Not that there's a good time ever for that, but if there was, it'd be the pre-season, when games don't matter. You don't give a guy free reign in games that actually count.

Raccoon Jesus said:
Hey, you "called BS." I'm just giving you my viewpoint and it's not a totally fringe one, as you can see. I don't think there are necessarily 100% right answers here, especially when we're talking development, and 'we're winning' doesn't negate things the way 'we're losing' doesn't mean they're all falling apart. But I see worrying trends that have continued, win or lose, across several seasons, and they're being continued.

And one final point--I would suggest that yeah, regression in the kids is a pretty good example that something is not going great. Vilardi going from 7pts in 10 games to 23 in 54 to 1 in 7 is a few small sample sizes but the major difference is in the questions we're asking--you're asking "what's wrong with him" and suggesting he's not good enough/working hard enough whatever, I'm asking "what's going on behind the scenes with coaching and development to help him succeed," because visibly, him and others are getting buried. Those aren't win/lose trends, we're asking bigger questions.

In the moment, though, you say we're winning and there's nothing to worry about--I say developing Grundstrom who has been one of our best players over the last week to bench him for no reason is a pretty sad act worth questioning whether we win or lose on that decision or not.
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I called BS cause it's BS.

Regression is always placed on the coach here -outside maybe Clague- and that's the problem. What is there to show GV's regression is a coaching thing? Because he's not getting played? Maybe he's not earning that ice time. When you were going on and on about him when he first was getting scratched, people pointed out his numbers suck. Virtually everywhere. He was one of the worst forwards out there, tied maybe with Tkachev. I'm not saying it's all on Gabe, but we went 1-5-1 in the games he's played and last night was the first game we played without getting a point since he left the line up. The coach is to ice the best possible line up and Gabe wasn't part of it. Is that regression on TM or Gabe? Seems to me Gabe had a roster spot last year and now he doesn't and for everyone complaining about TM playing the vets over the kids, Gabe is more of a vet than Kaliyev is. Seems like he lost his spot to a rookie. TM shouldn't be expected to throw the worst forward on the team out on the ice over and over again. He looked like a dog turd for seven games and got turfed out because of it. Calling a kid out for his bad play is part of development, in this case he was called out by getting demoted.


Maynard said:
You should Google “straw man argument”. It’ll help you to stop arguing like a child.
Click to expand...

Says the one calling someone else a child. Move along.
 
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unicornpig said:
He's going too hard to make the playoffs. Even last year when the playoffs were a non possibility he still played the vets and the kids barely got a sniff. The guy has never had to develop young talent. Have zero clue why this guy was hired and paid 5 million per to boot
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A coach's job, at least at this highest level, is to win every game. You play to win the game, as someone once said. TM is not coaching children.

Going too hard to make the playoffs? Thats a borderline offensive idea. You keep playing the vets and make the young guys earn it at the end of a lost season to keep creating an expectation of professionalism.

Now whether or not Brown should be on the 1st or 4th line, and if the Kings would win more one way or the other, that can be discussed. TM should try to win every game though.
 
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kingsfan said:
So play a guy to do whatever he wants and if he can't correct it, send him down. Not that there's a good time ever for that, but if there was, it'd be the pre-season, when games don't matter. You don't give a guy free reign in games that actually count.
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Yes the high draft picks that they got from tanking the last 3 years or so should have longer leashes in this process. Its not free reign if the player is competent. The vets are out there making mistakes also but they dont get demoted from them
 
kingsfan said:
TM shouldn't be expected to throw the worst forward on the team out on the ice over and over again. He looked like a dog turd
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Yea thats what were all saying. You saw brown last night. Flat footed just making cross ice passes to the other team all night. He looked like dog turd.
The top six last night looked like dog turd actually
 
Schmooley said:
Yes the high draft picks that they got from tanking the last 3 years or so should have longer leashes in this process. Its not free reign if the player is competent. The vets are out there making mistakes but they dont get demoted from them
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Other than Brown, who is making more mistakes than Kaliyev, Vilardi, etc? I think most of this board is in agreement Brown should be getting moved around/out of the line up.

No one should have an unearned leash, and your draft position doesn't give you one. Throwing kids into situations they have not earned is far more often detrimental to their development and there is a litany of past rushed, and subsequently failed, prospects with high draft positions attached to their name that can attest to this.
 
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kingsfan said:
Other than Brown, who is making more mistakes than Kaliyev, Vilardi, etc? I think most of this board is in agreement Brown should be getting moved around/out of the line up.

No one should have an unearned leash, and your draft position doesn't give you one. Throwing kids into situations they have not earned is far more often detrimental to their development and there is a litany of past rushed, and subsequently failed, prospects with high draft positions attached to their name that can attest to this.
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Kopitar made mistakes last night. AA and Kempe also. Though I liked moore kempe and kupari together. Iafallo and Danault not as many mistakes but looked more like third liners last night.
Kaliyev being a top goal scorer his whole life earned him his draft position. And last season in the ahl earned him a look on the kings. Some teams dont even give a look to their top draft picks because its known that they are top six talents.
No matter what anyone says youre gonna be on the TM and Kopitar train until it departs so we dont have to do this anymore
 
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Schmooley said:
Kaliyev being a top goal scorer his whole life earned him his draft position. And last season in the ahl earned him a look on the kings. Some teams dont even give a look to their top draft picks because its known that they are top six talents.
No matter what anyone says youre gonna be on the TM and Kopitar train until it departs.
Click to expand...

And Kaliyev is in the NHL now... Drafted in 2019, played a year in the AHL, now in the NHL. Seems pretty standard development to me. From his draft year he's tied for 12th in games played and only one player draft later than him has played more games. Not sure what your expectations are but he's definitely on pace to turn out how we expected he would.
 
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kingsholygrail said:
People really need to get used to the fact that Brown is not going to be paid not to play.
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He is getting paid to not play. The only thing he can do is hit a stationary opponent now and then. 11 games, 0 goals on 35 shots? 2 assists and minus 4.
I watched all his shifts last night and he was rarely in a good position to help 33 and 11. 33 and 11 made a few plays together and 23 was not around. A few
of the times, he came into the attacking area a full 3 seconds later.

He's playing more and more perimieter and not going to the net, like he used to. He cannot play perimeter, as he cannot move quickly into prime areas
and he's not great at receiving passes, has no 1 timer and many of the last 35 shots have no zip or ticketed for top corners, etc. The only thing
he did last night ok, was to make a few 15-30 foot passes that connected, but not ones that were going to lead to anything and ones that most
NHL players could make. There's nothing creative, truly assertive, dynamic, catalyst driving, or of any playmaking qualities to his game; 1 iota.
Kopitar and Arvidsson have zero chance at any success, without having an NHL level linemate playing with them. Zero chance. Both of them
can still play, but not the level botrh of them were 3 years ago. So, they certainly cannot carry someone playing at a third line AHL level with them.

Switch 23 out for Iafallo and they would have success. I'd rather keep him with Danault, though. I think Turcotte could step in Saturday on LW with them
and you would see a totally new dynamic with 11 and 33. I know it won't happen and sure, Turcotte should perhaps not come in and play #1 LW Saturday.
But he sure would bust azz and not fail like 23 does every shift. Frk could step in and not fail either. Even Grundstrom would be fine. No, he's not a #1 LW,
but either is 23 and Grundstrom would bust azz and not disappoint either.
 
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