Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

[Stimpythecat]

 

[Choralone]

Todd has to balance his two mandates from management this year:
1) Develop the rookies
2) Make the playoffs

To do the second he can't just go hog-wild with the rookies. Also, didn't we have conversations how a losing culture on the big team is harmful for development? I think the team's "attitude" - as much as can be gleaned from watching them play - is night-and-day compared to last year, even when they were on the losing streak earlier this season.

Edit: changed "loosing" to "losing"

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

i don't disagree and it's why i've piped down for the most part lately, there's just that lingering long term thing of getting the kids developed, and i don't think i'm out of line questioning how some of these young/new guys are being treated

where are we when danault's line cools off if kopi doesn't heat back up?

If your point is that Brown should sit, then you gotta just face reality because it ain't gonna happen. Maybe he'll get moved down the line-up, but they aren't making Brown a healthy scratch. There will be injuries throughout the year and some of the other guys will get their shot, or some of the young guys we have now will struggle and may sit a few games to see what other youngsters can do....but bitching about Brown just seems like a waste of time. He led the team in goals last year...like someone else said, he has a very long leash and he's earned that.

 

[tny760]

If your point is that Brown should sit, then you gotta just face reality because it ain't gonna happen. Maybe he'll get moved down the line-up, but they aren't making Brown a healthy scratch. There will be injuries throughout the year and some of the other guys will get their shot, or some of the young guys we have now will struggle and may sit a few games to see what other youngsters can do....but bitching about Brown just seems like a waste of time. He led the team in goals last year...like someone else said, he has a very long leash and he's earned that.

nah i don't expect him to sit, nor do i think that's really a solution. he's got things to offer, i just don't think he should be sitting pretty on kopi's wing and PP1 minutes unless he's producing

those logos got me feeling all nostalgic, used to get those little holographic sticker sheets out of a vending machine at the exit of toys r us when i was a kid

 

[johnjm22]

i just feel there's a lot of mixed signals being sent by giving him that leash. that's an underperforming line, no matter whose names are attached to it. underperforming lines get shaken up. i get that there's players returning to the lineup right now which means inherent changes but i think there was a good opportunity there to give some other guys a big chance and todd just kinda defaulted to "vets" as he usually seems to do

i'll give him some credit for riding that danault line more the last few games cause those guys are red hot and they seem to basically have become the de facto top line, but i don't understand why kopi/brown is this untouchable to todd. i thought we got arvidsson and danault to continue winning, not to give brown good fee-fees on the way out. that's a mixed message to me

Arvidsson/Kopitar/Brown was pretty good early in the season. I guess Todd's logic could be to give them a few more games.

Todd knows Brown is struggling. Brown knows Brown is struggling. They both know the decision that's on the horizon. An accomplished vet is going to get x amount of games before it happens.

I think by game 42, Brown will be the 4th line RW or scratched or "injured".

 

[kingsfan]

And if Byfield hadn't gone down in the preseason, he's most likely got 15 games under his belt today.

Thank you, I meant to put him in there but forgot to. I also wonder if Clarke would have got a few games to have a look at the NHL this year to start the season if not for the mono.

I think hes talking about players being put in a position to succeed and using players to their strengths not just games played.
Kaliyev is the best offensive weapon in the organization and being on the 4th line and pp2 is a real headscratcher. Kupari showed some offensive flashes early on and is now being trained as a 3rd line defensive center like nick dowd. Hes got wheels and still gets no 3-3 overtime icetime.
It took half the defense being injured to bring in Clague and Strand and TMac still puts Maatta in over one of them. I see and understand both sides of the argument and the only way you are right in this is if you think they can go deep into the playoffs and maybe win a cup with the veterans running the show.
Otherwise you arent developing guys to their maximum potential. No other team in the league would be playing Brown on the top line without giving a shot to at least one of the recent first rounders in kempe, kupari, byfield, vilardi, turcotte and even kaliyev and a guy like fagemo who shows some flashes. Trading for arviddson shows they dont think their picks are that good or kopitar still calls the shots. Maybe its a mix of both

Having watched Kaliyev's last game, I don't see it as a headstratcher at all. The kid looked very tentative out there and was the passenger on a line with Blake Lizotte and Brendan Lemieux. Those two created room for him and he did nothing to utilize it. Kupari isn't being trained as anything. He's being developed. Outside of Brown, who we all know has a long leash, who above him hasn't earned their place in the line up?

For Clague, why do people say Maatta is in over Clague? If it's based on the pre-season, Clague was horrible then as well, so really neither should have been in the line up. Since Clague's been called up though, he's getting over 18 minutes a game, which is almost two minutes a game more than Maatta. Strand, in my opinion, has not been very good. I know we all hate Maatta being around, I certainly do too, but it's not like there's been a clear difference between him and the other two at certain points. At various points, I could have been ok with a pylon being in over all three.

When it comes to development, I'd rather see a situation where players earn their ice time. That's a far better learning curve than being thrust into roles they aren't ready for and having them stumble around. How's the development of Lafreniere, Kaako, Kravtsov and Andersson in NYR going? We got Andersson and brought him along in a manner that works for him and us and look at him now compared to his NYR days. Throwing ice time at a kid isn't necessarily a means to develop him. This isn't NHL 21.

Good teams trade for or sign vets to insulate the kids. Stevie Y did it in Tampa and is now in Detroit. They didn't bring in Nick Leddy to win a cup and take 20+ minutes a night from Seider and Hronek, they traded for him to have a vet for them to lean on. Same with Staal. Same with Gagner up front. And as the kids start taking up more spaces, they'll still bring in vets because that's how you build a team.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I call BS. The whole philosophy of this management team, perhaps to a fault, is to draft and develop a young core that can grow together and form a cup winner. They have spent years accumulating picks and developing these kids, they aren't going to do all that to turn around and sign shit vets.

This year so far 109 players with rookie status have played at least one game in the NHL. LA has iced Kaliyev, Kupari, Tkachev, Clague and Strand for a total of 42 games. We're above the average in terms of both the number of rookies that have played so far and the number of games.

They've played practically every one of them against their will and have not put any in a situation to succeed without being forced to.

Kaliyev is buried on the 4th and not being used on the PP in favor of the worst PP in the league, he's likely next to go down and only got in due to injury.

Kupari might be the only one who cracked the lineup and that's because he's just a depth grinder on a 20 point pace. Thank goodness, another responsible two-way depth guy who will be lucky to crack 20 points! Wherever were we going to find another one of those?

Tkachev got 4 games before he got Vilardi'd.

Clague and Strand only got in due to massive injuries and even then Maatta is getting time over Strand. It took literally Doughty and Walker going down, MacDermid to be expansion'ed, and the only other d-men behind him to be Durzi and Moverare to force Clague into the lineup.

That's great that we're 'above average' in terms of number, but as far as opportunity...it's barely there. For supposedly the best prospect pool in the league. We're actively keeping youth from time with Kopitar/Danault and away from the PP--just getting bottom six 5v5 minutes and often a shortened bench for a Kopitar 24 minute (and Danault 18) special.

Let's not forget the others...Grundstrom just got the message from TM literally in insider today: "you're doing nothing wrong, but you're benched." Vilardi. It goes on.

I'm all for the kids growing together and building together, that Reign team is an absolute force of nature and a Calder Cup favorite. I don't like guys getting called up and getting Jordan Weal'ed upon one mistake. It's counterproductive and it just. keeps. happening.

It's stupid as f*** to have two of the best defensive centers in the league and veteran lines but not letting the youth make some mistakes either next to them or on their own.

And if Byfield hadn't gone down in the preseason, he's most likely got 15 games under his belt today.

Agreed.

The only message any of us should give a f*** about is winning. Last I checked, we've done a pretty good job of that lately.

Bullshit.

"Closer to the playoffs, further from the Cup."

Edit; This is all rehashed anyway. Specifically my complaint for today is re: Grundstrom. The dude finally shows you something enough to stick in the lineup--and HE is the one you bench? Garbage. And a Todd McLellan special.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Hello strangers, me again (Pens fan who has come here a few times asking you all some trade questions).

What are LA's plans for Quick? Trade him this year, trade him in the offseason, trade him next season, or let him ride out his contract with the Kings?

I ask because the Pens aren't getting timely goaltending (or anything else). And I saw that your goalie duo's cap hit for next season is over $10M. Plus there's the Hextall connection.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Kudelski37]

Hello strangers, me again (Pens fan who has come here a few times asking you all some trade questions).

What are LA's plans for Quick? Trade him this year, trade him in the offseason, trade him next season, or let him ride out his contract with the Kings?

I ask because the Pens aren't getting timely goaltending (or anything else). And I saw that your goalie duo's cap hit for next season is over $10M. Plus there's the Hextall connection.

Thanks in advance!

Kings have no intention to trade Quick.

 

[tny760]

Hello strangers, me again (Pens fan who has come here a few times asking you all some trade questions).

What are LA's plans for Quick? Trade him this year, trade him in the offseason, trade him next season, or let him ride out his contract with the Kings?

I ask because the Pens aren't getting timely goaltending (or anything else). And I saw that your goalie duo's cap hit for next season is over $10M. Plus there's the Hextall connection.

Thanks in advance!

i guess i'd frame it as.. cal just hasn't been able to take the reigns as he was expected to, so quick is just the better option right now

i don't think it's out of line to suggest that quick is overperforming right now but personally i can't see how they don't let him ride out the contract

 

[tbrown33]

Benching Grundstrom in favor of Brown playing, who has 2 assists in his last 11 and has been part of an absolutely broken Kopitar line, does not sit well with me. Brown had to take a day down from morning skate, can't he take at least one game down after playing 4 games in 6 days on the road? He's the oldest forward on the team, and we're benching a productive bottom six player because, why exactly?

Brown has a long leash yadda yadda yadda but come on. He doesn't need to play all 82 games! He's old and it's showing!

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They've played practically every one of them against their will and have not put any in a situation to succeed without being forced to.

Kaliyev is buried on the 4th and not being used on the PP in favor of the worst PP in the league, he's likely next to go down and only got in due to injury.

Kupari might be the only one who cracked the lineup and that's because he's just a depth grinder on a 20 point pace. Thank goodness, another responsible two-way depth guy who will be lucky to crack 20 points! Wherever were we going to find another one of those?

Tkachev got 4 games before he got Vilardi'd.

Clague and Strand only got in due to massive injuries and even then Maatta is getting time over Strand. It took literally Doughty and Walker going down, MacDermid to be expansion'ed, and the only other d-men behind him to be Durzi and Moverare to force Clague into the lineup.

That's great that we're 'above average' in terms of number, but as far as opportunity...it's barely there. For supposedly the best prospect pool in the league. We're actively keeping youth from time with Kopitar/Danault and away from the PP--just getting bottom six 5v5 minutes and often a shortened bench for a Kopitar 24 minute (and Danault 18) special.

Let's not forget the others...Grundstrom just got the message from TM literally in insider today: "you're doing nothing wrong, but you're benched." Vilardi. It goes on.

I'm all for the kids growing together and building together, that Reign team is an absolute force of nature and a Calder Cup favorite. I don't like guys getting called up and getting Jordan Weal'ed upon one mistake. It's counterproductive and it just. keeps. happening.

It's stupid as f*** to have two of the best defensive centers in the league and veteran lines but not letting the youth make some mistakes either next to them or on their own.




Agreed.




Bullshit.

"Closer to the playoffs, further from the Cup."

Edit; This is all rehashed anyway. Specifically my complaint for today is re: Grundstrom. The dude finally shows you something enough to stick in the lineup--and HE is the one you bench? Garbage. And a Todd McLellan special.

Granted, I haven't been able to watch most games, from the games I've seen, Kaliyev is where he belongs, he hasn't played his way to more ice time, Grundstrom, is on the 3rd line along side Kupari and Moore, where else would you want him?

Clague was awful to start the season, what kind of message are you sending to EVERYONE else....kids included, if you hand them a spot DESPITE their play?

But yes, that's how kids get into lineups, veterans go down, with the exception of what, top 10 1st round picks etc, not many kids slot right into 20 min a game right away.....Tkachev, not sure the story there, maybe he got a bum deal, maybe he didn't, where would you play Kupari right now?

 

[kingsfan]

They've played practically every one of them against their will and have not put any in a situation to succeed without being forced to.

Kaliyev is buried on the 4th and not being used on the PP in favor of the worst PP in the league, he's likely next to go down and only got in due to injury.

Kupari might be the only one who cracked the lineup and that's because he's just a depth grinder on a 20 point pace. Thank goodness, another responsible two-way depth guy who will be lucky to crack 20 points! Wherever were we going to find another one of those?

Tkachev got 4 games before he got Vilardi'd.

Clague and Strand only got in due to massive injuries and even then Maatta is getting time over Strand. It took literally Doughty and Walker going down, MacDermid to be expansion'ed, and the only other d-men behind him to be Durzi and Moverare to force Clague into the lineup.

That's great that we're 'above average' in terms of number, but as far as opportunity...it's barely there. For supposedly the best prospect pool in the league. We're actively keeping youth from time with Kopitar/Danault and away from the PP--just getting bottom six 5v5 minutes and often a shortened bench for a Kopitar 24 minute (and Danault 18) special.

Let's not forget the others...Grundstrom just got the message from TM literally in insider today: "you're doing nothing wrong, but you're benched." Vilardi. It goes on.

I'm all for the kids growing together and building together, that Reign team is an absolute force of nature and a Calder Cup favorite. I don't like guys getting called up and getting Jordan Weal'ed upon one mistake. It's counterproductive and it just. keeps. happening.

It's stupid as f*** to have two of the best defensive centers in the league and veteran lines but not letting the youth make some mistakes either next to them or on their own.




Agreed.




Bullshit.

"Closer to the playoffs, further from the Cup."

Edit; This is all rehashed anyway. Specifically my complaint for today is re: Grundstrom. The dude finally shows you something enough to stick in the lineup--and HE is the one you bench? Garbage. And a Todd McLellan special.

I give up. You win. The sky is falling, management is shit and we're f***ing doomed. f*** man, you'd swear this was the Sabres the way you rattle on about things. We're winning and there's nothing to show these kids aren't being developed the right way. Literally nothing.

 

[Schmooley]

Why do people keep saying kaliyev is where he belongs? He was the best player on the team in that st louis home game. He has scoring potential that no one else does. He has shown flashes in the nhl. Play him in the top six for a couple weeks and let him lose coverages and do drop passes to nobody that will lead to goals against. If he cant clean it up after a couple weeks then send him to Ontario with a list for him and the coach to focus in on. Right now hes learning how to play like a bottom six player and that may be what he turns into if thats what they are asking of him.

 

[Ghetty Green]

I give up. You win. The sky is falling, management is shit and we're f***ing doomed. f*** man, you'd swear this was the Sabres the way you rattle on about things. We're winning and there's nothing to show these kids aren't being developed the right way. Literally nothing.

Imagine his takes if we were on a 8 game losing streak

 

[Ghetty Green]

I give up. You win. The sky is falling, management is shit and we're f***ing doomed. f*** man, you'd swear this was the Sabres the way you rattle on about things. We're winning and there's nothing to show these kids aren't being developed the right way. Literally nothing.

Imagine his takes if we were on a 8 game losing streak

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I give up. You win. The sky is falling, management is shit and we're f***ing doomed. f*** man, you'd swear this was the Sabres the way you rattle on about things. We're winning and there's nothing to show these kids aren't being developed the right way. Literally nothing.

Hey, you "called BS." I'm just giving you my viewpoint and it's not a totally fringe one, as you can see. I don't think there are necessarily 100% right answers here, especially when we're talking development, and 'we're winning' doesn't negate things the way 'we're losing' doesn't mean they're all falling apart. But I see worrying trends that have continued, win or lose, across several seasons, and they're being continued.

And one final point--I would suggest that yeah, regression in the kids is a pretty good example that something is not going great. Vilardi going from 7pts in 10 games to 23 in 54 to 1 in 7 is a few small sample sizes but the major difference is in the questions we're asking--you're asking "what's wrong with him" and suggesting he's not good enough/working hard enough whatever, I'm asking "what's going on behind the scenes with coaching and development to help him succeed," because visibly, him and others are getting buried. Those aren't win/lose trends, we're asking bigger questions.

In the moment, though, you say we're winning and there's nothing to worry about--I say developing Grundstrom who has been one of our best players over the last week to bench him for no reason is a pretty sad act worth questioning whether we win or lose on that decision or not.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Imagine his takes if we were on a 8 game losing streak

I'm right here. You can talk to me like a grownup.

And you've already seen that, I typically get railed on for being too positive. For years now. It's actually really funny to me that people are piling on for me having a negative opinion of TM when usually people are piling on calling me a homer.

 

[Statto]

I give up. You win. The sky is falling, management is shit and we're f***ing doomed. f*** man, you'd swear this was the Sabres the way you rattle on about things. We're winning and there's nothing to show these kids aren't being developed the right way. Literally nothing.

My take on it is this and I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just what I think they are doing.

I think with AK they will want him to improve his defensive game to a minimal level (whatever that is) before he gets meaningful top 6 minutes whilst 5 on 5. It’s not his natural game so there is a learning curve there that he seems to be progressing on. The point of the veteran players is to shelter the kids so Brown stays on the top line until they feel Kaliyev is ready to make a run at it. Better to have Brown there (whilst hopefully finding his game) as a stop gap than exposing Kaliyev to becoming a defensive liability on the top line, because there is no knowing how that would affect him. No one is going to be expecting him to be Dwight King but there will need to be a minimum standard to his 2 way game to get a proper look on the top 6. I imagine the plan is going to be that once he gets moved to the top 6 he stays there (although injuries and game situations will mean he occasionally will get moved up).

Also, I wouldn’t sit Grundstrom but I guess it needs to be a winger (otherwise I would sit Lizzotte) so it’s only really going to realistically be between him and Kaliyev. There’s a case for sending Kaliyev down but by keeping him up you have to think he’s progressing in the way they want him to, which is in part where my theory above is coming from, also, Brown isn’t sitting and very few coaches would do so (even though I get the argument). Personally I’d play Grundström as he may have a future with the team and sit AA who most likely doesn’t, but I’m guessing they are hoping he boosts his trade value to move as the TDL approaches. These are pretty good dilemmas to have though.

 

[The Lukeman]

Ya ya line usage, but more importantly,

What crypto nick names have we been thinking?

Shiba-Tar?
Dogehty?
Ander-coin?
Andres Etherasiou?

Sorry if im late to the party

 

[Statto]

Hey, you "called BS." I'm just giving you my viewpoint and it's not a totally fringe one, as you can see. I don't think there are necessarily 100% right answers here, especially when we're talking development, and 'we're winning' doesn't negate things the way 'we're losing' doesn't mean they're all falling apart. But I see worrying trends that have continued, win or lose, across several seasons, and they're being continued.

And one final point--I would suggest that yeah, regression in the kids is a pretty good example that something is not going great. Vilardi going from 7pts in 10 games to 23 in 54 to 1 in 7 is a few small sample sizes but the major difference is in the questions we're asking--you're asking "what's wrong with him" and suggesting he's not good enough/working hard enough whatever, I'm asking "what's going on behind the scenes with coaching and development to help him succeed," because visibly, him and others are getting buried. Those aren't win/lose trends, we're asking bigger questions.

In the moment, though, you say we're winning and there's nothing to worry about--I say developing Grundstrom who has been one of our best players over the last week to bench him for no reason is a pretty sad act worth questioning whether we win or lose on that decision or not.

That’s all fair. Regardless of whether I agree or not with your views/arguments they all have a vein of logic to them and ask fair questions… usually .

I think the question about how they are dealing with Vilardi behind the scenes is a very fair one. I suspect there’s a bit of blame on both sides with this one and given the comments about improving his draws in the past I could certainly see them struggling to get his buy in over playing wing. I stint in the AHL will certainly help that process but let’s see what they do with him. Nothing but conjecture on my part.

Grundström is a tough one because a winger needs to miss out and realistically who else does he sit? Brown ain’t sitting and 95% of coaches wouldn’t sit him either, so it’s him Kaliyev , AA or Moore? Lemieux has now turned himself into a key piece so that’s no longer an option and despite Grundys form no one (apart from the odd crazy on this board) is keeping him in the lineup over Arvidsson, Kempe or Iafallo. It’s not a simple choice; I presume they like Kaliyev’s direction and his development will be a priority, AA fills a different role and Moore provides plenty to his game even when he’s not scoring. So, it’s not an easy call and even though I don’t really like it all that much I do understand it.

 

[LAKings88]

I’m my eyes Grundstrom is a fringe player that likely isn’t a part of the next step/year. He does have physicality which they can use against heavier teams but he likely platoons here on out.

 

[YP44]

I maybe on my own but I would have sat AA for Grundstrom.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I maybe on my own but I would have sat AA for Grundstrom.

Hard to sit a guy with 5 points in 5 games. I don’t even much care for him but I respect results.

We all know who should be sitting.

 

[YP44]

Hard to sit a guy with 5 points in 5 games. I don’t even much care for him but I respect results.

We all know who should be sitting.

Like it or not Brown has earned his leash.