Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

[FSL KINGS]

I said it at the time, I was shocked how many people were in favor of what the Kings did this summer.

The Kings needed a shot at another impact young player, picking top 5 will give the Kings a chance to hit another homerun.

Really not shocking at all. How many years do you get to tell your boss that your plan is to be one of the worst teams? Injuries happened & we're there anyways.

 

[Mats26]

The answer to this mess is simple. The next management group with no ties and loyalty to the vets will turn things around. I said it before, poor management is the primary cause of a poorly executed rebuild. When you need to agree to a plan to satisfy the vets so they are on board, who is actually in charge then?

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I said it at the time, I was shocked how many people were in favor of what the Kings did this summer.

The Kings needed a shot at another impact young player, picking top 5 will give the Kings a chance to hit another homerun.

It's amazing to me how many of you think that losing is good for business...this is a BUSINESS. The Kings need to sell tickets, they need people to tune in and watch their games. Do you even realize how many people would have to be in on a 'tank' for it to actually be executed? It's f***ing laughable. And what are these homeruns you speak of? Are we certain that Byfield and Turcotte are homeruns? I must have missed that....

 

[bland]

It's amazing to me how many of you think that losing is good for business...this is a BUSINESS. The Kings need to sell tickets, they need people to tune in and watch their games. Do you even realize how many people would have to be in on a 'tank' for it to actually be executed? It's f***ing laughable. And what are these homeruns you speak of? Are we certain that Byfield and Turcotte are homeruns? I must have missed that....

That's all well and good, but it's not realistic. You don't spend big to maximize your crappy product, you spend in R&D and infrastructure to create a quality product down the road.

The Kings have to realize that they are not winning with this group. There is a major flaw in their foundation that cannot be patched over, it has to be replaced. Blake had the absolute perfect opportunity to come in, state that the model was broken and frame the necessity of rebuilding despite the pain. Easily could have left it all on Lombardi and promised a better future, but he put all his dough on a horse with a broken leg.

In my experience fans are more than willing to accept poor results as long as they are promised and can see a clear pathway to better days ahead. We get excited watching quality kids develop, we bond over how we know what's coming while other fanbases focus on just the current form, we want to see our team coming together and playing for each other and growing.

We are use to that as Kings fans and will accept that. We do not accept a total lack of progress after years of the same situations unfolding just like previous years.

All this management team has done is collect prospects. They haven't proactively changed the tone. Nothing will truly improve until they sever ties with the ghosts of 2014 and offer a new vision.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Other than Doughty, anyone left over from the past is on DL. He's the one that signed these dumbass long contracts. There's the conspiracy theory that Robitaille orchestrated the Kopitar deal, but then DL should've quit on the spot, not stuck around and removed the C from Brown because his Canadian farm boy buddy coach didn't like him.

It takes time to get out from bad contracts to old players. Can't offer up Kopitar at 50% for 5 years. There's no precedent in the league for anything like that.

 

[Piston]

That's all well and good, but it's not realistic. You don't spend big to maximize your crappy product, you spend in R&D and infrastructure to create a quality product down the road.

The Kings have to realize that they are not winning with this group. There is a major flaw in their foundation that cannot be patched over, it has to be replaced. Blake had the absolute perfect opportunity to come in, state that the model was broken and frame the necessity of rebuilding despite the pain. Easily could have left it all on Lombardi and promised a better future, but he put all his dough on a horse with a broken leg.

In my experience fans are more than willing to accept poor results as long as they are promised and can see a clear pathway to better days ahead. We get excited watching quality kids develop, we bond over how we know what's coming while other fanbases focus on just the current form, we want to see our team coming together and playing for each other and growing.

We are use to that as Kings fans and will accept that. We do not accept a total lack of progress after years of the same situations unfolding just like previous years.

All this management team has done is collect prospects. They haven't proactively changed the tone. Nothing will truly improve until they sever ties with the ghosts of 2014 and offer a new vision.

You make an excellent point and as always back up your arguments with great insight. There are, however, two things to consider. First, the season is only 6 games old. Basing major moves on such a small sample size is not the answer. Yes, I uderstand your argument that these six games are a continuation of the collapse at the end of last season, but this is still a different team that is trying to work youngsters into the lineup. I think this group deserves the first quarter of the season to try and come together and show improvement. The Doughty injury may be fortuitous in this case as other players are going to have to step up to make up for his loss. Maybe some do, there are quite a few players who are quite capable of making major strides in their development if given a chance. Let's be a little more patient before blowing this thing up.

Th second issue is more difficult. Assuming you are correct and that the problem is a broken foundation that can't be papered over, how do you proceed? Kopitar and Doughty aren't going anywhere- they have trade protection, are still playing very well and make too much for their cap hit to be absorbed elsewhere. Quick could be traded to a contender with some retention, but goalie is the position where we have the least organizational depth- who takes his place? Then we get to Brown where I agree with you about the poor example he sets. But, aren't your options with him inherently limited? Yes, he is not setting the proper tone, but he is still the only Captain in team history to hoist the Cup (twice). You can't just dump him, that sends a terrible message to the rest of the leaugue on how the team treats its icons. The bottom line is this foundation can't be easily replaced right now.

That means the only way to blow things up is to fire TM and maybe RB. That would send a message that the status quo is unacceptable. If the team is still mired in the cellar after 20 games, I would be in favor of this especially if we also get rid of our Team President who still doesn't know the difference between a balance sheet and an income statement. Then, who do you replace these people with? Can anyone else get more out of this group? The answers it seems may be more difficult to find than one would like. Would appreciate your comments.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I don't understand this frequent discussion of get rid of the vets. What vets are left from the Stanley Cup days? You basically just have DD, Kopitar, Brown and Quick. If you get rid of DD, your defense is a dumpster fire. Even if some of you want to keep tanking, losing awfully will breed a culture of losers. The young players should not be brought up in that environment. Kopitar is playing lights out. Trade him and who takes his place? Byfield/Turcotte are not ready to take the 1C role, and it is a huge question mark if they will ever replace Kopitar. The only player that sort of makes sense to trade is Brown because he is on an expiring contract and a contender would be interested at the deadline because of his recent play and if we retain. You can't trade Quick because there is no one to replace him. Who takes his place? You bring in any other vet backup, you will likely pay more or less the same.

So what exactly are some of you arguing about the vets are the problem?

At this stage, the only logical change is the coach if the team is still not performing well by December. If the entire year is a collapse, you have the pull the trigger and get rid of Blake. There is no reason why this team should not be, at minimum, a bubble playoff team with this roster and lack of serious competition in the division.

 

[BigKing]

I said it at the time, I was shocked how many people were in favor of what the Kings did this summer.

The Kings needed a shot at another impact young player, picking top 5 will give the Kings a chance to hit another homerun.

I still have zero issues with the moves for Arvidsson, Danault and Edler. Minimal cost and fits a plan based on improving this year due to them and the season-long influx of youth.

For this to work though, you need a certain mindset from the players and health which the Kings lack in both cases. Injuries can derail most teams in the league but the former has been an issue for years now and it appears it may have been wrong to think that this team would change how it plays due to an influx of talent.

I do think we are all higher on this team if it were fully healthy so the injuries are definitely a viable excuse for the current W/L record but the continuation of the softest hockey imaginable is a real problem. That doesn't mean fighting and dirty play: I'm just talking about going to the dirty areas, winning board battles and finishing a check. The Kings have to be the easiest team in the league to play against and it is up to the players to change that. Well, the vets aren't killers and our prospects don't look like killers either so how does this get fixed?

 

[Lt Dan]

That means the only way to blow things up is to fire TM and maybe RB. That would send a message that the status quo is unacceptable. If the team is still mired in the cellar after 20 games, I would be in favor of this especially if we also get rid of our Team President who still doesn't know the difference between a balance sheet and an income statement. Then, who do you replace these people with? Can anyone else get more out of this group? The answers it seems may be more difficult to find than one would like. Would appreciate your comments.

I personally think that a lot more can be gotten out of this group.
I wish we could bring back Terry Murray at this point

 

[KingTech]

Interesting read wonder what it would take
?

 

[King'sPawn]

That's all well and good, but it's not realistic. You don't spend big to maximize your crappy product, you spend in R&D and infrastructure to create a quality product down the road.

The Kings have to realize that they are not winning with this group. There is a major flaw in their foundation that cannot be patched over, it has to be replaced. Blake had the absolute perfect opportunity to come in, state that the model was broken and frame the necessity of rebuilding despite the pain. Easily could have left it all on Lombardi and promised a better future, but he put all his dough on a horse with a broken leg.

In my experience fans are more than willing to accept poor results as long as they are promised and can see a clear pathway to better days ahead. We get excited watching quality kids develop, we bond over how we know what's coming while other fanbases focus on just the current form, we want to see our team coming together and playing for each other and growing.

We are use to that as Kings fans and will accept that. We do not accept a total lack of progress after years of the same situations unfolding just like previous years.

All this management team has done is collect prospects. They haven't proactively changed the tone. Nothing will truly improve until they sever ties with the ghosts of 2014 and offer a new vision.

You also don't drop your top performers and people who know the product best while the transition/R&D is done. So, no, you don't just sell off Kopitar/Doughty, etc.

They don't win the cups without these so-called ghosts. They aren't the problem you make them out to be. They aren't the solution going forward, though - characters need to take ownership, and they are by and large too deferential.

The structure of the product (age disparity between the old and new core) has been a big problem. Development continues to be a question mark until someone drafted and developed in the last decade cements himself as a top line forward (and no, Iafallo joined the Kings NHL ready. He's grown, but he didn't go through the rigors of the Kings' system).

For all the shit Kopitar and Doughty get from fans, nobody on the team outplays them on a consistent basis.

Then as always, the "people" aspect gets overlooked. It is a very bad practice to trade your best players because their value is high. It's not because it's "unpopular". But because people who have established a home, done a good job, and been loyal don't like to be relocated. Then when you treat your best like that, you create a culture of fear and uncertainty for everyone else.

Trading players and relocation is a nature of the game, I get it. But you don't do your core dirty like that. It was bad enough when they took the C off Brown.

 

[bland]

I don't understand this frequent discussion of get rid of the vets. What vets are left from the Stanley Cup days? You basically just have DD, Kopitar, Brown and Quick. If you get rid of DD, your defense is a dumpster fire. Even if some of you want to keep tanking, losing awfully will breed a culture of losers. The young players should not be brought up in that environment. Kopitar is playing lights out. Trade him and who takes his place? Byfield/Turcotte are not ready to take the 1C role, and it is a huge question mark if they will ever replace Kopitar. The only player that sort of makes sense to trade is Brown because he is on an expiring contract and a contender would be interested at the deadline because of his recent play and if we retain. You can't trade Quick because there is no one to replace him. Who takes his place? You bring in any other vet backup, you will likely pay more or less the same.

So what exactly are some of you arguing about the vets are the problem?

At this stage, the only logical change is the coach if the team is still not performing well by December. If the entire year is a collapse, you have the pull the trigger and get rid of Blake. There is no reason why this team should not be, at minimum, a bubble playoff team with this roster and lack of serious competition in the division.

The argument is that by having so many retirement contracts at one time, and this started the year Sutter was fired and has continued to this moment, is that you are giving an unreasonable amount of control to your players simply because they cannot be moved.

That isn't to ignore the respect and admiration for their accomplishments - its stating that a malaise has fallen over the organization that cannot be easily fixed if you are going to operate under a reactionary philosophy.

And this addresses Piston's point, so forgive the non-multi quote format, but what is required here is proactive thinking. It is only natural that a group of people who accomplished such great things but are locked into deals that out kick their teams Cup coverage will take their collective foot off of the gas when they realize that there is nothing to play for that matches what they have already done. That happened right after they were swept by Vegas, they literally quit on the guy they wanted in Stevens and never bothered to try for Desjardins, which may be the worst interim appointment in NHL history.

If you take stars who own the team, and show them that no matter how well they play, career best years even, that it just doesn't matter, you are forcing a reaction: roll up your sleeves and work differently or cave in on yourselves and comiserate. This leadership group chose to sulk, and they haven't done anything differently since the start of 17-18.

Instead of being proactive and forcing a change in tone, the new Blake regime has chosen to pamper them instead of challenging them. They got Phaneuf and Kovalchuk. But the tone hasn't changed. The players still played well, but they didn't instill any sort of accountability and just sort of carried on with their individual games instead of coalescing.

When was the last time a LA King overachieved?

So, you will never, never, never get full value in exchange for Kopitar or Doughty on ice. It couldn't happen. But what you would be getting that is even more important is a fresh breath of air in an enviornment that isn't designed to maximize veterans but one that offers growth and progress instead of trying to maintain something that frankly died years ago now.

I am afraid nothing will change until a completely new philosophy is installed, but I don't see a management group that is willing to see that.

Suffer and grow with the kids, build on their needs not those of legends.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Not that Blake would say OMG please send me a defenseman I'm so desperate please please please, but he's already stated they'll fill in the spots on D from Ontario.

No need to spend assets now to just get a guy. If Doughty can't help this team be more than bleh, what available defenseman is going to do any different?

If they somehow turn things around and play at a good clip without Doughty, then maybe add a guy.

This is the same situation as Quick in 16-17. There's no trade to be made in Oct or Nov. It was ride with Budaj.

 

[KINGS17]

You make an excellent point and as always back up your arguments with great insight. There are, however, two things to consider. First, the season is only 6 games old. Basing major moves on such a small sample size is not the answer. Yes, I uderstand your argument that these six games are a continuation of the collapse at the end of last season, but this is still a different team that is trying to work youngsters into the lineup. I think this group deserves the first quarter of the season to try and come together and show improvement. The Doughty injury may be fortuitous in this case as other players are going to have to step up to make up for his loss. Maybe some do, there are quite a few players who are quite capable of making major strides in their development if given a chance. Let's be a little more patient before blowing this thing up.

Th second issue is more difficult. Assuming you are correct and that the problem is a broken foundation that can't be papered over, how do you proceed? Kopitar and Doughty aren't going anywhere- they have trade protection, are still playing very well and make too much for their cap hit to be absorbed elsewhere. Quick could be traded to a contender with some retention, but goalie is the position where we have the least organizational depth- who takes his place? Then we get to Brown where I agree with you about the poor example he sets. But, aren't your options with him inherently limited? Yes, he is not setting the proper tone, but he is still the only Captain in team history to hoist the Cup (twice). You can't just dump him, that sends a terrible message to the rest of the leaugue on how the team treats its icons. The bottom line is this foundation can't be easily replaced right now.

That means the only way to blow things up is to fire TM and maybe RB. That would send a message that the status quo is unacceptable. If the team is still mired in the cellar after 20 games, I would be in favor of this especially if we also get rid of our Team President who still doesn't know the difference between a balance sheet and an income statement. Then, who do you replace these people with? Can anyone else get more out of this group? The answers it seems may be more difficult to find than one would like. Would appreciate your comments.

As a caretaker, can anyone get less out of this group ?

 

[tny760]

why take on more contracts when doughty's only 6-8 weeks out? it's not like we're looking like cup competitors..

only one that strikes my fancy on that list is sergachev and tampa would ask for the moon, and can't take on more cap so it's gonna be a truckload of picks, no thanks

 

[KingTech]

why take on more contracts when doughty's only 6-8 weeks out? it's not like we're looking like cup competitors..

only one that strikes my fancy on that list is sergachev and tampa would ask for the moon, and can't take on more cap so it's gonna be a truckload of picks, no thanks

Looks like the mayor made a comment on him.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;Hi, this is LA calling. Please hold the line for Rob...&quot; <a href="https://t.co/dwgGfcasnQ">https://t.co/dwgGfcasnQ</a></p>&mdash; The Mayor (@mayorNHL) <a href="">October 27, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

You only make a trade for a young long term answer on defense (like Sergachev). Making a trade just to try and salvage this season would be a mistake

 

[Lt Dan]

One game of bliss and the hell has been snowballing since.

LOL who thought we would be saying "Just wait til next season" in October!

 

[tny760]

One game of bliss and the hell has been snowballing since.

LOL who thought we would be saying "Just wait til next season" in October!

 

[Lt Dan]

You won the internet today tny!

 

[Matt13]

The ending really moved me.

 

[bland]

You also don't drop your top performers and people who know the product best while the transition/R&D is done. So, no, you don't just sell off Kopitar/Doughty, etc.

They don't win the cups without these so-called ghosts. They aren't the problem you make them out to be. They aren't the solution going forward, though - characters need to take ownership, and they are by and large too deferential.

The structure of the product (age disparity between the old and new core) has been a big problem. Development continues to be a question mark until someone drafted and developed in the last decade cements himself as a top line forward (and no, Iafallo joined the Kings NHL ready. He's grown, but he didn't go through the rigors of the Kings' system).

For all the shit Kopitar and Doughty get from fans, nobody on the team outplays them on a consistent basis.

Then as always, the "people" aspect gets overlooked. It is a very bad practice to trade your best players because their value is high. It's not because it's "unpopular". But because people who have established a home, done a good job, and been loyal don't like to be relocated. Then when you treat your best like that, you create a culture of fear and uncertainty for everyone else.

Trading players and relocation is a nature of the game, I get it. But you don't do your core dirty like that. It was bad enough when they took the C off Brown.

KP, the way the Kings have handled this isn't the standard, its an anomaly. Nobody in the cap era had 1/4 of its roster locked into retirement deals. And yes, you absolutely move players when they are no longer fit into plans - its an absolute sin to cater to players when they can no longer provide the end goal.

That isn't an indictment of their ability, rather it is an honest look at the full situation and an appraisal of their value compared to their results. The results were never going to be there - it was virtually impossible for the Kings to succeed or receive value out of Kopitar's contract. It cemented the team into mediocrity.

This isn't a family no matter how much they market it that way. It is a business and you can't try to bend business goals around placating individuals who can't match previous successes EVEN if they maintain their own individual levels of performance.

Its cut and dried now, proven in time. Trying to maintain the Cup team was a failure. It cost them years of potential (not likely, but potential) growth and success.

So yeah, there is nothing so special about these guys that they deserve more than what other players who have succeeded then moved on have received. Its all part of the game, you either succeed, maintain, regress, falter or grow.

The Kings are maintaining failure now in the guise of honoring success. Progress isn't coming til they give up the ghosts. We have 8 years of this evidence to prove that point as gospel.

 

[KINGS17]

Looks like the mayor made a comment on him.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;Hi, this is LA calling. Please hold the line for Rob...&quot; <a href="https://t.co/dwgGfcasnQ">https://t.co/dwgGfcasnQ</a></p>&mdash; The Mayor (@mayorNHL) <a href="">October 27, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

A great young defenseman in Sergachev gets benched for half a period for being complacent and giving up a bad turnover, and it signals a trade to the Kings?

The Mayor is grasping for straws.

 

[KINGS17]

KP, the way the Kings have handled this isn't the standard, its an anomaly. Nobody in the cap era had 1/4 of its roster locked into retirement deals. And yes, you absolutely move players when they are no longer fit into plans - its an absolute sin to cater to players when they can no longer provide the end goal.

That isn't an indictment of their ability, rather it is an honest look at the full situation and an appraisal of their value compared to their results. The results were never going to be there - it was virtually impossible for the Kings to succeed or receive value out of Kopitar's contract. It cemented the team into mediocrity.

This isn't a family no matter how much they market it that way. It is a business and you can't try to bend business goals around placating individuals who can't match previous successes EVEN if they maintain their own individual levels of performance.

Its cut and dried now, proven in time. Trying to maintain the Cup team was a failure. It cost them years of potential (not likely, but potential) growth and success.

So yeah, there is nothing so special about these guys that they deserve more than what other players who have succeeded then moved on have received. Its all part of the game, you either succeed, maintain, regress, falter or grow.

The Kings are maintaining failure now in the guise of honoring success. Progress isn't coming til they give up the ghosts. We have 8 years of this evidence to prove that point as gospel.

What's Jeff Carter doing these days? Playing a hell of a lot better in Pittsburgh than he did his last few seasons in LA. The Kings would be doing some of these guys a favor by moving them. It might improve their self respect.

As I said when Kopitar signed his last contract, the Kings aren't going to win jack with him on this deal. I just didn't think it was going to be this bad. Signing Doughty to his ridiculous contract was just adding more principle to increase misery interest.

 

[Schmooley]

A great young defenseman in Sergachev gets benched for half a period for being complacent and giving up a bad turnover, and it signals a trade to the Kings?

The Mayor is grasping for straws.

If the kings benched defensemen for giving up bad turnovers there would be no dmen to play by the third period.