Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

[bland]

If they were going to deal Kopitar, you do it after 14-15, which was the only opportunity to do so. Of course he was coming off a then career worst season.

I'm sorry, you legitimately think there's any team or GM that would trade their 1C when they're leading their division with a top 5 overall record in the middle of January?

Yes. It was clearly the correct option and proven so in time.

It was impossible to succeed without cost-controlled talent, no cap space to spend in free agency, a completely empty prospect pool and no premium picks to deal to try and maximize the value of the lengthy deals locked in to far too many older players.

It requires removing yourself from the immediate, looking at the full picture and seeing that the run was over. That was Lombardi's specialty, but he let his hubris blind his vision and he cemented in mediocrity for a decade. It wasn't a surprise that things turned out this way, it was always the most likely outcome.

So if you are going to think that just because the record is good in January after missing the playoffs the year before is a reason to ignore the big picture, well, you are guaranteeing failure. And they did fail and haven't got out from underneath that failure 7 years later.

 

[Rob Brown]

Have there been any Doughty updates?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Yes. It was clearly the correct option and proven so in time.

It was impossible to succeed without cost-controlled talent, no cap space to spend in free agency, a completely empty prospect pool and no premium picks to deal to try and maximize the value of the lengthy deals locked in to far too many older players.

It requires removing yourself from the immediate, looking at the full picture and seeing that the run was over. That was Lombardi's specialty, but he let his hubris blind his vision and he cemented in mediocrity for a decade. It wasn't a surprise that things turned out this way, it was always the most likely outcome.

So if you are going to think that just because the record is good in January after missing the playoffs the year before is a reason to ignore the big picture, well, you are guaranteeing failure. And they did fail and haven't got out from underneath that failure 7 years later.

What I'm saying, is that nobody that is being paid a lot of money is going to trade their 1C when the team is in the overall top 5 while also leading their division more than half way through a season. It's not going to happen. Anywhere. Ever. I'd be shocked if there was even one example, because I can't think of one, or whatever the equivalent would be.

You can play the big picture smarter than the room game all you want, but being competitive in sports is too difficult. Had 14-15 still happened, but DL doesn't go stupid and acquire Lucic, and 15-16 is just a continuing of the collapse, from a W/L standpoint, from the start of the season, and the Kings are bottom 10 in January, then you can have a legit discussion on trading Kopitar as he heads to UFA land.

However, as with everything that's happened with this team since winning the Cup in 2012, it's all just horrible timing. Re-sign Quick, and it's only the first year of a 10 year contract that the team has success. Re-sign Brown, and his offense disappears almost immediately. Down 0-3, on your way to not re-signing old man Gaborik, or Greene, or actually getting rid of Richards when you could've for free, but then you go on a crazy run to win the Cup, and DL can't stop crying he goes so nuts. Re-sign Kopitar, and he has his 2nd and worst career worst season the following year. Re-sign Doughty, and it's only then that the entire team quits. They couldn't have done it in 17-18, maybe paving the way for Doughty to want to leave, no, the team had to stop giving a damn after he signs his monster deal.

 

[Jason Squirties]

If you're sticking up for one another, size doesn't matter when it comes to a response. Those guys should be like your brothers out there, if you think someone intentionally tried to hurt your brother you don't care about the size of the guy, you go at him. It's the response that matters more to your comrade, not the outcome.

Interesting, it's like you get it but you're not watching the same team the rest of us our watching. Maybe your expectations are just that much lower.

I believe Blake or Luc or someone said they wanted to get faster, saying the club was to slow to keep up in the league anymore. I didn't disagree, we were a bit of a dinosaur team, but it does feel like they overcorrected on this one a bit. Perhaps they sense it with the selection of Helenius, trade for Lemieux, etc.

Overcorrected on getting faster? That would imply that there was some speed on this team to begin with. Sure, there's a couple of quick skaters but team speed with the puck on your stick or through passing lanes is a whole nother thing.

I guess it's what I remember most about the Kings of old, they were big and slowish but they could flip the side of the ice with 2 to 3 quick passes and then have the other team hemmed up in their own zone for minutes at a time.

Different strategies but none of them are being initiated at this point in time, on top of being complete pushovers.

 

[Jason Squirties]

AA fought last year if that is what people are looking for. I think he, Andersson and Lemieux will provide enough of that and I would think they are getting closer.

More I think about it the more I look at Anaheim and Mason.

How many times does it need to be said that most of us complaining about team toughness does not give much of a single f*** about staged fights?

 

[riznat]

Wonder what this dude is up to these days

 

[tny760]

How many times does it need to be said that most of us complaining about team toughness does not give much of a single f*** about staged fights?

that's why i long for something like minnesota's greenway/foligno line

those guys don't fight for no reason, they just spend every shift absolutely hammering your guys, every time they can

 

[kingsfan]

Interesting, it's like you get it but you're not watching the same team the rest of us our watching. Maybe your expectations are just that much lower.

Overcorrected on getting faster? That would imply that there was some speed on this team to begin with. Sure, there's a couple of quick skaters but team speed with the puck on your stick or through passing lanes is a whole nother thing.

I guess it's what I remember most about the Kings of old, they were big and slowish but they could flip the side of the ice with 2 to 3 quick passes and then have the other team hemmed up in their own zone for minutes at a time.

Different strategies but none of them are being initiated at this point in time, on top of being complete pushovers.

Or maybe I'm not flipping out over needless things. Like everyone getting pissed about there not being some huge response for the DD hit when the guy that laid the hit got ejected.

And no, they didn't have speed before, hence the change in philosophy when Blake came in. I'm not defending Blake, frankly I think he should go, but it was the DL squad he inherited that he was referring to, and as stated, they were slow af. Those breakouts in 2012 - 2014 wouldn't amount to much today, or even in 2017, part of why this team was left in the dust after our last cup win.

 

[kingsfan]

that's why i long for something like minnesota's greenway/foligno line

those guys don't fight for no reason, they just spend every shift absolutely hammering your guys, every time they can

I'd love to get a Marcus Foligno type. Great example.

 

[Jason Squirties]

Or maybe I'm not flipping out over needless things. Like everyone getting pissed about there not being some huge response for the DD hit when the guy that laid the hit got ejected.

And no, they didn't have speed before, hence the change in philosophy when Blake came in. I'm not defending Blake, frankly I think he should go, but it was the DL squad he inherited that he was referring to, and as stated, they were slow af. Those breakouts in 2012 - 2014 wouldn't amount to much today, or even in 2017, part of why this team was left in the dust after our last cup win.

Needless things. If these guys don't or can't seem to find a way to care for each other than why should we as fans care about watching the product on ice? ESPECIALLY if they're losing and in the fashion they are losing in. If you can keep it up, more power to ya, pal.

 

[Jason Squirties]

Wonder what this dude is up to these days

Maybe he could come on as a consultant to help guys on the bench have that certain crazy look in their eye. Maybe we have it wrong, it's a mindset that comes first.

 

[kingsfan]

Needless things. If these guys don't or can't seem to find a way to care for each other than why should we as fans care about watching the product on ice? ESPECIALLY if they're losing and in the fashion they are losing in. If you can keep it up, more power to ya, pal.

Again, what are you expecting? Hakanpaa is ejected. You want them to go Mike Milbury with a shoe down the hallway?

 

[bland]

In the NHL you have to be able to play at a high tempo, and I'm not seeing that from him. The lack of footspeed is evident. He actually reminds of Amadio sometimes.

There are very good players in the NHL who aren't quick skaters, but are able to compensate. Vilardi will have to figure that out.

Maybe if he's moved to wing he'll be more effective. Usually centers have to cover more of the ice.

He went a year and a half hardly playing any hockey, he finally gets into a groove in the AHL and the Kings yank him out of it and throw him in the NHL. I think it's incredibly stupid.

The thing with Vilardi isn't speed, its mobility. He does really, really well when he can move straight into pucks in front of him or passes that lead him in a straight line. If you put the puck into his skates or to either side of him it takes him a longer time than most to get that puck into a positive position, and by that extra half second sees defenders adjust and lanes close. Its also a problem defensively as he gets lost in close coverages - he has difficulty positioning his body laterally when needed.

I don't know if it is part and parcel of his back injury, but it is limiting his effectiveness. I call it a "sphere of influence", meaning how much of the ice does he affect, and his sphere is very narrow.

 

[BigKing]

Or maybe I'm not flipping out over needless things. Like everyone getting pissed about there not being some huge response for the DD hit when the guy that laid the hit got ejected.

And no, they didn't have speed before, hence the change in philosophy when Blake came in. I'm not defending Blake, frankly I think he should go, but it was the DL squad he inherited that he was referring to, and as stated, they were slow af. Those breakouts in 2012 - 2014 wouldn't amount to much today, or even in 2017, part of why this team was left in the dust after our last cup win.

The guy got ejected but he was on the ice long enough to have more happen to him than some face washes. Kempe's response was so forceful that he didn't even get called for a penalty. The game prior, Dumba knees Kempe and Iafallo skates over with zero clue what do and eats a stick from Dumba before just grabbing Dumba around the helmet and holding on. He got a roughing penalty that was really just an even up for Dumba hitting him to begin with. Iafallo is being groomed to be a leader on this team...that hit looked bad and should have resulted in Iafallo dropping his gloves. He can just wrestle for all I care but the lack of any real response is not a "needless thing": it is an ongoing problem and one that has been persistent throughout this horrific stretch of hockey the past 5-6 years. It is definitely not a coincidence.

Even if you want to give them a pass for not dogpiling the culprit, they had the rest of the game to at least lay the body hard on the Stars skill players but they did nothing. We're talking about the best or second best player on the team going down from an illegal hit and this team has no response. That's not what winning teams do in this league no matter how different the level of physicality is today v. other eras.

 

[tny760]

they should play this on repeat in the locker room



like, was that really that high effort of a hit? no. just denied smith the free dump that he was expecting, all by taking one stride and lowering the shoulder

our guys would no question just wave a stick at that or not even bother and just glide to the bench

 

[Jason Squirties]

Again, what are you expecting? Hakanpaa is ejected. You want them to go Mike Milbury with a shoe down the hallway?

You're reading or focusing on the wrong part(bolded). I'm expecting a response AT ANY POINT. I expect the captain not to be laughing on the bench when the best prospect we've had since Doughty goes down in a crappy hit on the boards. I just want SOMETHING that this team doesn't seem to have.

 

[Jason Squirties]

they should play this on repeat in the locker room



like, was that really that high effort of a hit? no. just denied smith the free dump that he was expecting, all by taking one stride and lowering the shoulder

our guys would no question just wave a stick at that or not even bother and just glide to the bench

Absolutely uncalled for. That has no place in hockey.

 

[kingsfan]

And what is laying the body going to do exactly? If you're doing it to establish your presence in the game, sure. If you're doing it to avenge your teammate, pass in that instance. You're proving nothing, cause the only guy on the other team that did anything to you is gone. You're mad at Hakanpaa so you want to drive Seguin through the boards for it? Maybe take a penalty needlessly in a 1-1 game (or a 2-1 game you're winning after the powerplay is over)? We take a penalty trying to get revenge against a Stars player who did absolutely nothing and maybe we don't even have a point from that game and you guys are bitchin about the stupid penalty someone took and how he needs to focus on what's important and get revenge later.

We'll see Hakanpaa again, hope someone deals with him for the hit. Maybe Drew will himself, however the fact Drew hasn't even said shit about the hit says something to me since he's not shy to call a spade a spade.

I won't comment on the Dumba hit cause I didn't see that game.

 

[bland]

Again, what are you expecting? Hakanpaa is ejected. You want them to go Mike Milbury with a shoe down the hallway?

Dude, you are completely missing the point. Every team has players with skill, but successful teams have a collective spirit and that is what is lacking.

Doughty, Roy, Bjornfot and Anderson were all injured in the last calendar year by major fouls without any response whatsoever - and the Kings lost each of those games IIRC.

Toughness isn't about having MacDermid come out and fight a tough guy on the next shift, its about perverance and showing the opposition that you won't cave in and lose if taken advantage of, that you have a spine and pride and will rise to challenges instead of meekly accepting them.

The Kings don't dictate, they are not proactive. Hell, they don't even react much. Its just a collection of individuals who won't sacrifice for a common goal. Its too easy to get them off their game, which is all Plan A, no Plan B is on offer.

Lockerrooms don't have to be divided to be problematic. Passivity and timidity are not conducive to winning. There is nothing more inspiring than when a non-fighter drops the gloves to come to the aid of a teammate. That reaction from the bench and the crowd is unbelievable, you see it on the ice, in postgame pressers, its all part of being a team. Happens at every level of the game, ball hockey to beer leagues to the pros. You need to come together when it matters.

This core doesn't seem to understand that, apart from Quick. Brown and Doughty immediately turn to the refs to whine and bitch and Kopitar... sets an example of.. what exactly? Settling down?

 

[YP44]

How many times does it need to be said that most of us complaining about team toughness does not give much of a single f*** about staged fights?

Where did I say anything about staged fights?

 

[kingsfan]

You're reading or focusing on the wrong part(bolded). I'm expecting a response AT ANY POINT. I expect the captain not to be laughing on the bench when the best prospect we've had since Doughty goes down in a crappy hit on the boards. I just want SOMETHING that this team doesn't seem to have.

I had no problem whatsoever with that hit other than the outcome. Angling a guy into the boards happens a hundred times a game like that and rarely results in an injury. It was a freak injury. It's hockey, shit happens.

 

[Jason Squirties]

Where did I say anything about staged fights?

You brought up fighting as if it was the only measure of team toughness when it's been explained many times it's much more than that and even that part is being phased out.

 

[YP44]

You brought up fighting as if it was the only measure of team toughness when it's been explained many times it's much more than that and even that part is being phased out.

seemed like there was a lot of complaining about not holding Dallas accountable for Drew. Accountable to me means fighting.

Anyway I point to three guys who cand play tough, if that means fighting so be it, but they do not have to

 

[Jason Squirties]

I had no problem whatsoever with that hit other than the outcome. Angling a guy into the boards happens a hundred times a game like that and rarely results in an injury. It was a freak injury. It's hockey, shit happens.

Like talking to a wall here. It's a long history and theme with this team and not caring, I didn't say there was a response needed to that hit but I would rather the captain wasn't have a giggle on the bench right after something like that happens.

 

[kingsfan]

The ignore button is easy to find if you don't like what I'm saying, champ.