Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

[BigKing]

man, i'm onboard with trashing this current team product/culture and all that, but saying it was "obvious" that kopi should've been traded 6 years ago is some legendary 20-20 hindsight

the contract's up in a few years, he's >PPG right now and he is still the best player on the team by a longshot. what could we possibly have gotten in return that would be paying such incredible dividends right now? that would somehow make us not be in the same pit we're in right now? even if he rides out this contract as the 2C with like .5PPG (doubtful), so what?

It's easy to say "don't give any player a big money, long contract that takes them into their late 30s" because you will usually be right. The flip side of the argument is that there is no guaranty what you are getting in return is going to pan out either. If the return you get doesn't pan out, all you have is cap space to sign some guy to a big money deal that takes him into his 30s because that's what you get in UFA.

Now, the Kings haven't won a playoff game during his current deal so it is easy to say that this contract has gotten them nowhere. At the same time, they've been able to accumulate all these picks/prospects anyways and he should still be a valuable player over the remainder of his current deal. You could argue that they would be closer to being a better team by getting some sort of young NHL player and prospects/picks back in 2015 but it's still a crapshoot: especially when the team is in 1st place at the time of the signing and he's pretty much been a consistent machine his entire career.

The real blunder comes in Blake making zero moves when he took over and then doubling down the next off season with Kovy and then the Doughty extension. You get in the same spot with the Doughty extension but it is rough when Bluc says that they knew they would have to rebuild but it just started a year and half early (said this in Spring 2019) which means they would need to rebuild in the second year of Doughty's new deal (20-21 season) and what would have been the final year of Kovy's deal. We give DL grief for "going for it" but Blake pretty much did the same thing by originally planning to give these guys the 2018, '19 and '20 seasons to keep pushing for a Cup. Thankfully it imploded before he got in to a spot to trade picks/prospects but, more to the point, the extension that can be criticized more is Doughty's: if one wishes to criticize one of the big extensions.

I know there is an argument against it being "easy" to trade him, but Jeff Carter just came off of leading this team in scoring when Blake took over and he was eventually traded for 3rd round picks. That's poor asset management. If you see this barren pipeline and you have an aging 30 goal center coming off his best year as a King, you might want to see about planning for the future since you already have a #1C locked up for years. Of course, that would have made Doughty upset and it was always the plan to retain him and try to win a Cup with the old crew for a few seasons.

 

[David Lunch]

I don't really have a problem with it. They got a taste of NHL play, now they can work on their game more in the AHL. It's part of the development process.

I just don't understand why Vilardi gets the free pass. Why is he immune to being sent down?

I’m with ya. Kaliyev really needs some more time to figure out how to be effective away from the puck and with the puck in non-shooting areas. He improved in his last handful of games compared to his first 2, but I think going down to the A for at least 20 games will give him some space to work on those things and gain some confidence.

Kupari impressed me much more these last 2/3 games. You can see him starting to figure it out - i.e. how to not only not be a liability, but also how to drive play and make quicker/more confident decisions with the puck. I think next time he comes up he sticks, but I still think him having another powerful stretch in the A is going to do him well.

I’m very concerned with Vilardi’s trajectory. He’s got excellent skill but there’s something vital missing from his game. I don’t think he’s lazy, scared or timid necessarily, but perhaps some crisis of confidence is essentially making his play appear to be a mix of those things. It seems like the reason he works great with Andersson is because Lias is willing to do the dirty work and drive play, and it’s not a good sign that he seemingly needs someone to do this for him. I see Vilardi attempting playing a bit heavy on the boards and is sometimes quite strong, but then other times he seems soft or dazed. I definitely think he didn’t spend enough time in the A and was rushed, especially after taking such a long break off from hockey to recover his back. I wonder if they think sending him down will crush his confidence even more and that’s the main reason why not?

 

[Lt Dan]

This team sorely misses the likes of a Williams, Mitchell, Greene, Regehr and I'm sure a few others. The "core" has never been the true leaders as the those that led this team in 12 and 14 sans Quick.
I'm expecting this team to compete for a playoff spot, but others need to step up and take charge. Until that happens, they are what they are. A non playoff team.

Indeed.
We need something who can step on legos and break them. Someone who chews glass and spits out tobacco water pipes. Someone who flossses with trip wire still attached to a claymore. Someone not afraid to punch Elmo in his smug face.

 

[tny760]

It's easy to say "don't give any player a big money, long contract that takes them into their late 30s" because you will usually be right. The flip side of the argument is that there is no guaranty what you are getting in return is going to pan out either. If the return you get doesn't pan out, all you have is cap space to sign some guy to a big money deal that takes him into his 30s because that's what you get in UFA.

Now, the Kings haven't won a playoff game during his current deal so it is easy to say that this contract has gotten them nowhere. At the same time, they've been able to accumulate all these picks/prospects anyways and he should still be a valuable player over the remainder of his current deal. You could argue that they would be closer to being a better team by getting some sort of young NHL player and prospects/picks back in 2015 but it's still a crapshoot: especially when the team is in 1st place at the time of the signing and he's pretty much been a consistent machine his entire career.

The real blunder comes in Blake making zero moves when he took over and then doubling down the next off season with Kovy and then the Doughty extension. You get in the same spot with the Doughty extension but it is rough when Bluc says that they knew they would have to rebuild but it just started a year and half early (said this in Spring 2019) which means they would need to rebuild in the second year of Doughty's new deal (20-21 season) and what would have been the final year of Kovy's deal. We give DL grief for "going for it" but Blake pretty much did the same thing by originally planning to give these guys the 2018, '19 and '20 seasons to keep pushing for a Cup. Thankfully it imploded before he got in to a spot to trade picks/prospects but, more to the point, the extension that can be criticized more is Doughty's: if one wishes to criticize one of the big extensions.

I know there is an argument against it being "easy" to trade him, but Jeff Carter just came off of leading this team in scoring when Blake took over and he was eventually traded for 3rd round picks. That's poor asset management. If you see this barren pipeline and you have an aging 30 goal center coming off his best year as a King, you might want to see about planning for the future since you already have a #1C locked up for years. Of course, that would have made Doughty upset and it was always the plan to retain him and try to win a Cup with the old crew for a few seasons.

yep, i was mid-typing a little addendum to my post earlier but decided against it and you probably said it better than i could. in no way am i trying to be a blake apologist, i just think it's unreasonable to pick on the kopitar contract, like you said. doughty's? yeah i can see it. i don't remember how i felt about it at signing so i don't want to be a revisionist, but i think there's potential that he can play that contract's value out by becoming a bit headier of a defenseman and playing a bit safer. i think eventually his body's gonna tell him "you can't do that any more" and i hope he's listening. that said, he would've brought a king's ransom in at a better time compared to kopitar's extension. suffice to say my "blake leash" is really f***in tight right now.

 

[johnjm22]

I’m very concerned with Vilardi’s trajectory. He’s got excellent skill but there’s something vital missing from his game. I don’t think he’s lazy, scared or timid necessarily, but perhaps some crisis of confidence is essentially making his play appear to be a mix of those things. It seems like the reason he works great with Andersson is because Lias is willing to do the dirty work and drive play, and it’s not a good sign that he seemingly needs someone to do this for him. I see Vilardi attempting playing a bit heavy on the boards and is sometimes quite strong, but then other times he seems soft or dazed. I definitely think he didn’t spend enough time in the A and was rushed, especially after taking such a long break off from hockey to recover his back. I wonder if they think sending him down will crush his confidence even more and that’s the main reason why not?

In the NHL you have to be able to play at a high tempo, and I'm not seeing that from him. The lack of footspeed is evident. He actually reminds of Amadio sometimes.

There are very good players in the NHL who aren't quick skaters, but are able to compensate. Vilardi will have to figure that out.

Maybe if he's moved to wing he'll be more effective. Usually centers have to cover more of the ice.

He went a year and a half hardly playing any hockey, he finally gets into a groove in the AHL and the Kings yank him out of it and throw him in the NHL. I think it's incredibly stupid.

 

[kingsfan]

What the hell are you rambling on about?

If nobody is improving you can see it with your own eyes. Is that too complicated?

Name one forward, just one, who has been drafted and developed by this team in the last 5-6 years who has lived up to or surpassed their potential.

You can't. So keep supposing all you want, its obvious stuff.

Lol. The fact you can't understand what I'm asking tells me enough, but here, let me spell it out for you. If Player A is showing progressing, who is responsible for that progression? Assign a name to that progress. You've said it's not Kopitar, et al, but that's based on what?

And to say players aren't progressing is bullshit, if that's where you're going.

 

[head eyes]

Clague called up.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Indeed.
We need something who can step on legos and break them. Someone who chews glass and spits out tobacco water pipes. Someone who flossses with trip wire still attached to a claymore. Someone not afraid to punch Elmo in his smug face.

Someone who can eat lightning and crap thunder. Someone who can use a cactus as a backscratcher. Someone whose mere mention sends women and children shivering under their covers at night.

--or, they can just call up Kale Clague. "Either way"

 

[Pucknut50]

yep, i was mid-typing a little addendum to my post earlier but decided against it and you probably said it better than i could. in no way am i trying to be a blake apologist, i just think it's unreasonable to pick on the kopitar contract, like you said. doughty's? yeah i can see it. i don't remember how i felt about it at signing so i don't want to be a revisionist, but i think there's potential that he can play that contract's value out by becoming a bit headier of a defenseman and playing a bit safer. i think eventually his body's gonna tell him "you can't do that any more" and i hope he's listening. that said, he would've brought a king's ransom in at a better time compared to kopitar's extension. suffice to say my "blake leash" is really f***in tight right now.

Indeed.
We need something who can step on legos and break them. Someone who chews glass and spits out tobacco water pipes. Someone who flossses with trip wire still attached to a claymore. Someone not afraid to punch Elmo in his smug face.

Well when you already lack toughness it doesn't help when our top 3 agitators Andersson, Lemieux, and Doughty are out with Injury/Covid. We get them back with Byfield and AA we should be respectable. I know people don't like Wagner but he does stick up for teammates.

 

[HookKing]

This team sorely misses the likes of a Williams, Mitchell, Greene, Regehr and I'm sure a few others. The "core" has never been the true leaders as the those that led this team in 12 and 14 sans Quick.
I'm expecting this team to compete for a playoff spot, but others need to step up and take charge. Until that happens, they are what they are. A non playoff team.

Bullshit. Go back and watch the 2012 series with President's Cup winner Vancouver. That was by far their toughest opponent and Brown and Quick were absolute monsters the entire series. And don't tell me about Richards and his one little hit after game 1 was over.

 

[Lt Dan]

Well when you already lack toughness it doesn't help when our top 3 agitators Andersson, Lemieux, and Doughty are out with Injury/Covid. We get them back with Byfield and AA we should be respectable. I know people don't like Wagner but he does stick up for teammates.

Sticking up and agitating are one thing...we need someone who kills deer with his bare hands
Opponents rightly feared Regehr and Mitchell. We need that kind of psycho

 

[KingsHockey24]

Lemieux being reactivated is great news.

Finally someone that plays with intensity.

 

[kingsfan]

Sticking up and agitating are one thing...we need someone who kills deer with his bare hands
Opponents rightly feared Regehr and Mitchell. We need that kind of psycho

Don't disagree entirely, but outside of Ryan Reaves and Tom Wilson, how many guys like that are even in the league anymore? The league has really changed a lot since the days of those two.

 

[Sparky206]

Sticking up and agitating are one thing...we need someone who kills deer with his bare hands
Opponents rightly feared Regehr and Mitchell. We need that kind of psycho

He's here, it's turcotte

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Kale Clague, you're lucky to get this chance. Unprotected. Waived. Reigned again. It took 2 injuries to give you this chance.
This may be your last REAL opportunity.
I'm pulling for you.

 

[Pucknut50]

Sticking up and agitating are one thing...we need someone who kills deer with his bare hands
Opponents rightly feared Regehr and Mitchell. We need that kind of psycho

Do you have anyone in mind that we could possibly get via trade?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Gudas, maybe?

Those guys don't really exist at a good playing level, they're extremely rare gems these days. Even then it was absurd we had so many at once.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Oleksiak, Dillion, Zadorov, Gudas.

Not much to pick from.

Luke Schenn?

 

[KingsFan7824]

On paper its easy to be naive. Fans want to be happy, they don't want to see heroes leave.

A closer look revealed a team with no cap space, no prospects, no cost-controlled talent and a ridiculous amount of retirement contracts to non-leaders who were guaranteed to have more say than any coach.

This isn't in retrospect either, it was all clearly laid out in advance and unraveled exactly as described.

Hope is not a plan. They hoped the core would learn from the real leaders and they didn't. They hoped players would take big discounts to stay and they didn't. They hoped the core would rebound under Stevens and they quit on him after one year. They hoped the core was still good enough to compete by adding Kovalchuk and they weren't.

Hope is easy, work is hard. They hoped instead of making the tough unpopular decisions. The correct move was always trading Anze and time bore that out.

If they were going to deal Kopitar, you do it after 14-15, which was the only opportunity to do so. Of course he was coming off a then career worst season.

I'm sorry, you legitimately think there's any team or GM that would trade their 1C when they're leading their division with a top 5 overall record in the middle of January?

 

[Bandit]

He's here, it's turcotte

All 165lbs of him soaking wet? I like his attitude, I’m not sure it’s writing checks his body can cash.

 

[KINGS17]

man, i'm onboard with trashing this current team product/culture and all that, but saying it was "obvious" that kopi should've been traded 6 years ago is some legendary 20-20 hindsight

the contract's up in a few years, he's >PPG right now and he is still the best player on the team by a longshot. what could we possibly have gotten in return that would be paying such incredible dividends right now? that would somehow make us not be in the same pit we're in right now? even if he rides out this contract as the 2C with like .5PPG (doubtful), so what?

Legendary foresight, my man.

 

[KINGS17]

It's easy to say "don't give any player a big money, long contract that takes them into their late 30s" because you will usually be right. The flip side of the argument is that there is no guaranty what you are getting in return is going to pan out either. If the return you get doesn't pan out, all you have is cap space to sign some guy to a big money deal that takes him into his 30s because that's what you get in UFA.

Now, the Kings haven't won a playoff game during his current deal so it is easy to say that this contract has gotten them nowhere. At the same time, they've been able to accumulate all these picks/prospects anyways and he should still be a valuable player over the remainder of his current deal. You could argue that they would be closer to being a better team by getting some sort of young NHL player and prospects/picks back in 2015 but it's still a crapshoot: especially when the team is in 1st place at the time of the signing and he's pretty much been a consistent machine his entire career.

The real blunder comes in Blake making zero moves when he took over and then doubling down the next off season with Kovy and then the Doughty extension. You get in the same spot with the Doughty extension but it is rough when Bluc says that they knew they would have to rebuild but it just started a year and half early (said this in Spring 2019) which means they would need to rebuild in the second year of Doughty's new deal (20-21 season) and what would have been the final year of Kovy's deal. We give DL grief for "going for it" but Blake pretty much did the same thing by originally planning to give these guys the 2018, '19 and '20 seasons to keep pushing for a Cup. Thankfully it imploded before he got in to a spot to trade picks/prospects but, more to the point, the extension that can be criticized more is Doughty's: if one wishes to criticize one of the big extensions.

I know there is an argument against it being "easy" to trade him, but Jeff Carter just came off of leading this team in scoring when Blake took over and he was eventually traded for 3rd round picks. That's poor asset management. If you see this barren pipeline and you have an aging 30 goal center coming off his best year as a King, you might want to see about planning for the future since you already have a #1C locked up for years. Of course, that would have made Doughty upset and it was always the plan to retain him and try to win a Cup with the old crew for a few seasons.

Rommel had a plan for the Atlantic Wall, but it didn't work out.

The whole reason Bluc got their jobs was that they promised immediate contention the season after missing the playoffs in Lombardi's last season. I am with @bland on this, hope is not a plan.

 

[Trash Panda]

Goons & guys who are universally tough are not what’s required for success.

Players who stay on the right side of pucks, force the opposition to have the occasional shift in their own end, skate hard to finish checks, and have a bit of pissy-pants whenever things get chippy are what is needed. We don’t need Tom Wilson, I’d settle for some Justin Williams.

Alex Turcotte, please pick up the white courtesy phone…

 

[Lt Dan]

Do you have anyone in mind that we could possibly get via trade?

Of course not. I will be the first to admit that I am part of the problem.
I have a love hate relationship with being part of the solution and the solution threw my clothes all over the neighborhood this morning.

 

[KINGS17]

Goons & guys who are universally tough are not what’s required for success.

Players who stay on the right side of pucks, force the opposition to have the occasional shift in their own end, skate hard to finish checks, and have a bit of pissy-pants whenever things get chippy are what is needed. We don’t need Tom Wilson, I’d settle for some Justin Williams.

Alex Turcotte, please pick up the white courtesy phone…

We don't have many guys anymore who make an opponent "fight for every inch" of ice. For the three seasons from 2011-12 to 2013-14, this was a term that was often used to describe the Kings.

The 2013 playoff season against an aggressive and hard hitting Blues team is one of the most physical series I have ever seen, and the Kings outhit them and wore them down. That series was emblematic of the Kings' identity. It is hard to decipher what this current team wants to be in terms of an identity.