Snubbed4Vezina
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2021-2022 S Blues Multi-Purpose Thread Part 3
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WeWentBlues
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I saw that rumor attributed to JR. Not sure where or if that was accurate.
He speculated that but only reporting from him that i saw was tank, Scandella, and presumably a 1st.
Thallis
No half measures
Apparently that was a misquote from the radio and he didn't say that was an official offer.
I was fine with the Kyrou, Krug, + rumor that was going around. I'm just more commenting that there's nothing in that offer that would entice Calgary to take it. Even if Tarasenko, Scandella, and a 1st was the only offer, you might as well hang on to him and see what you can get at the trade deadline.
- Jul 4, 2014
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I believe that was the offer that JR and several other Athletic writers landed on as what it would take from the Blues to land him in a trade in their article about what it would take from each of the teams rumored to be interested. I don't recall ever seeing that combination in the context of an official offer.
TK 421
Barbashev eats babies pass it on
- Sep 12, 2007
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Gotcha, yeah I think we were just up against the cap and it probably hamstrung what Doug could offer. Especially seeing what it took to get him which we just couldn't match, with the deal Calgary took they can still be really competitive next year.
The Athletic just posted predictions for next season. Only 4 Teams are projected with 100% chance to make the Playoffs. Tampa Bay, Colorado, Edmonton, and..... St. Louis.
STL fan in MN
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Goes to show that even though the Blues have taken a step back, they’re still among the top teams. The flat Cap is impacting everyone so pretty much all of the top teams have taken a step back.
Brian39
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No rookie (and probably no one player at all) is going to be asked to replace everything Perron did. But now that the dust has settled a bit, I want to dig in to what Perron did for this team. Because i keep seeing people talk about replacing his production, but he absolutely wasn't a producer at 5 on 5.
He fell short of 30 points at 5 on 5 in each of the 4 seasons he played here on his most recent contract. He was consistently on pace for 30+, but he never actually hit the 30 point mark at 5 on 5. He and ROR were often tasked much more with shutting down the opponent's top line and they were very successful in that role. So we will either be figuring out how to construct a comparable shut down top line or we will change things up and start utilizing ROR a bit differently.
He was the finisher on the top PP unit and the man advantage is where he did his best damage. His 11 PP goals led the team and will be the hardest thing to replace. I'm not sold that his role is irreplaceable though. The PP went 28.1% over 11 games when he missed the month of December. Thomas and Kyrou both got 2nd unit PP usage last year and there were long stretches where the 2nd unit was outperforming the top unit. We had a much more even split between our 2 PP units than most teams do, so loading up the top unit and playing them more is an option to offset his loss.
I'm not a fan of losing Perron in light of the contract he got. He was worth keeping at that price/term and I think you could have found a way to make it work for 2023/24 without much pain. But I also don't think that he was the straw that stirred the drink at 5 on 5 or the PP. I think some combo of Krug, Leddy, Perunovich, Tarasenko, ROR, Kyrou, Thomas, Buch. Schenn, Saad, Barbie, and maybe one of the others can execute around 25% as one of the league's top units. We're not just plugging a rookie into Perron's line/PP and hoping for the best.
He fell short of 30 points at 5 on 5 in each of the 4 seasons he played here on his most recent contract. He was consistently on pace for 30+, but he never actually hit the 30 point mark at 5 on 5. He and ROR were often tasked much more with shutting down the opponent's top line and they were very successful in that role. So we will either be figuring out how to construct a comparable shut down top line or we will change things up and start utilizing ROR a bit differently.
He was the finisher on the top PP unit and the man advantage is where he did his best damage. His 11 PP goals led the team and will be the hardest thing to replace. I'm not sold that his role is irreplaceable though. The PP went 28.1% over 11 games when he missed the month of December. Thomas and Kyrou both got 2nd unit PP usage last year and there were long stretches where the 2nd unit was outperforming the top unit. We had a much more even split between our 2 PP units than most teams do, so loading up the top unit and playing them more is an option to offset his loss.
I'm not a fan of losing Perron in light of the contract he got. He was worth keeping at that price/term and I think you could have found a way to make it work for 2023/24 without much pain. But I also don't think that he was the straw that stirred the drink at 5 on 5 or the PP. I think some combo of Krug, Leddy, Perunovich, Tarasenko, ROR, Kyrou, Thomas, Buch. Schenn, Saad, Barbie, and maybe one of the others can execute around 25% as one of the league's top units. We're not just plugging a rookie into Perron's line/PP and hoping for the best.
bleedblue1223
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Mentioned it in the Trade thread. We already saw Minnesota lose Fiala. Nashville is going to face regression after seeing 4 forwards with shooting percentages of 18.5 or better. I think Dallas and Winnipeg have some nice pieces, but we're simply a better team than them.
As long as Binnington doesn't crap the bed, this team is the clear #2 in the division.
As long as Binnington doesn't crap the bed, this team is the clear #2 in the division.
bleedblue1223
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Yeah. We'll see how the shutdown line is constructed, but O'Reilly, Saad, and Buchnevich are all great defensive forwards. They could easily combine to be a shutdown line that can also score. Buchnevich is one of the reasons I started preparing for Perron to walk, but he can go back to his natural RW position, and he fits in well with a shutdown line.
For the PP, we'll see how they construct it, and maybe it won't be to the same level as last season, but there is more than enough talent here for it to be another top unit in the league.
STL fan in MN
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I think that offer makes sense. It’s really all the Blues could do.
To me, that offer was made in the hope that MT really wanted to play in STL and STL only. If once it was whittled down to STL, FLA and CAR, if MT would’ve rejected signing an extension with FLA, then maybe CGY would’ve been forced to go back to STL and take basically that offer.
FLA went really gung-ho for MT and it didn’t work for Army. It happens but to me it never ever made sense to offer up Kyrou as part of the package.
bleedblue1223
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And depending on what Calgary wanted, we might have had a decent shot with that offer. We obviously know what Florida offered, and Carolina was rumored to have a package around Necas, so if Calgary valued a win-now package, we might have been somewhat close with a Tarasenko offer.
I love Perron but I suspect we will miss him much less than we think. Buchy and Kyrou will get more power play opportunities and can fill that slack. This team is still loaded up front.
Plus we literally took Saad off the powerplay because we didn’t have room for him anymore on either unit. I thought it was dumb because he’s a great net-front guy, but that’s basically another 20-plus goal scorer that we can just insert back in there.
We still easily have 11-12 legitimate PP guys we can make two great units with.
Snubbed4Vezina
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One could argue the offseason loss that will hurt the team the most is Jim Montgomery, rather than David Perron.
Stupendous Yappi
Idiot Control Now!
I approve of the offer Armstrong put together. If Tkachuk really was set on St Louis, that’s enough to make Calgary pull the trigger, unless there were other bidders.
a few points:
- Tarasenko would waive for Calgary. That’s interesting. (They could also have traded him at the deadline if they didn’t re-sign him. He’d probably waive for a contender.)
- No team would outbid that package unless they knew MT would re-sign long term.The Blues had a decent sized market they had to bid against in that regard.
- Armstrong was prepared to go 9.5M on the extension. I’d wager that was Tkachuk’s asking price and the Blues wouldn’t have been bidding if they hadn’t already decided that was acceptable.
Anyway, that’s the way I read it. I also am glad the Blues didn’t bid higher. Florida overpaid, and I think it will hurt them. I’m happy with how this team is approaching its cap issues.
a few points:
- Tarasenko would waive for Calgary. That’s interesting. (They could also have traded him at the deadline if they didn’t re-sign him. He’d probably waive for a contender.)
- No team would outbid that package unless they knew MT would re-sign long term.The Blues had a decent sized market they had to bid against in that regard.
- Armstrong was prepared to go 9.5M on the extension. I’d wager that was Tkachuk’s asking price and the Blues wouldn’t have been bidding if they hadn’t already decided that was acceptable.
Anyway, that’s the way I read it. I also am glad the Blues didn’t bid higher. Florida overpaid, and I think it will hurt them. I’m happy with how this team is approaching its cap issues.
bleedblue1223
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I don't think we know that Tarasenko or Scandella would waive for Calgary. It's been said that Army waits till an offer is accepted on some level before a player is approached to waive. Some situations can differ depending on the clause, but typically deals have some sort of unofficial agreement, and then it goes to the players.
Brian39
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I don't read into it that Tarasenko would waive for Calgary. Trade offers are pretty fluid and GMs don't usually go to the player until discussions are very far down the road. I wouldn't be surprised if Army made that offer and said 'I'm not taking asking Tarasenko to waive for you unless you tell me that you are seriously considering taking this offer.' If Calgary's response was 'we already got a better offer from Florida, we'll call you if that falls apart' then Army probably wouldn't ever go to Tarasenko.
Stupendous Yappi
Idiot Control Now!
Ok fine, but Armstrong would have a sense of whether that was realistic. He certainly wouldn’t bother to make that offer if he didn’t believe Vlad would waive. It tells me a bit about where their conversations up to this point have been.
STL fan in MN
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This is very true.
I will maintain that I still would’ve preferred to have kept Perron at that term/price but we do still have a ton of good players, some of which are more than capable of stepping up into bigger roles than they had last season.
That said, the strategy for the top PP unit will likely have to be reconfigured as I don’t see an obvious right-handed one-timer trigger man to perfectly step into Perron’s role as the hammer but we have tons of skilled guys and there’s lots of ways to run a successful PP.
ChicagoBlues
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STL fan in MN
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I would agree.
It’s being kept on the down low but I think Army is still really trying to unload Tarasenko. He and Tarasenko did a good job of killing the story all of last season by refusing to talk about after Tarasenko’s trade request but I would guess that both of their preferences would be to get it over with as to not risk is blowing up into a big distraction this season.
So maybe Tarasenko is more open to waiving his NTC to some locations than perhaps we’d think. Hard to say though as stuff doesn’t leak from the Blues as much as some other teams.
bleedblue1223
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Yeah, that's sort of where I'm at on it. I don't think Army would've stayed in that long if Tarasenko's camp made it clear a place like Calgary would have 0 shot. Then again, Army did make deals for Drouin and Hall during the Shattenkirk trade days when everyone knew that he wanted to be Ranger bound.
A move for Tkachuk is possibly just an exception, but I do wonder if Tarasenko is still on the market or if it's just like last summer where a deal is only made if we get an offer we can't refuse, otherwise we'll enjoy the last season of a top forward.
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