NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - PART XI [We got 3-5]

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The more I look into Holloway the more I feel he would be a good target with the NYI pick. Obvious questions about his offensive upside, not a top line talent but I feel like with another season of college hockey he would erase some of those doubts. I really like the way he supports puck possession, and uses his speed in transition.
 
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So fun to watch. Would be great to add him to the pool.
Yeah he has a lot of raw tools and the Sens development staff could develop him into quite the player. Looking at the way he plays if the Sens felt they had enough defensive depth or weren't as excited with his defensive development he does look like the type of prospect that could get converted into a forward. Imagine if they did that and then had a Tkachuk-Byfield-Nikishin line.

But overall he would be a welcomed addition to our d men prospect pool. We don't have that punishing hitter in our defensive core and Nikishin brings skating and puck skills to go with an intimidating physical presence. Maybe he could be developed into a Byfuglien type of d man.
 
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The more I look into Holloway the more I feel he would be a good target with the NYI pick. Obvious questions about his offensive upside, not a top line talent but I feel like with another season of college hockey he would erase some of those doubts. I really like the way he supports puck possession, and uses his speed in transition.
There is a lot to like about his game. He stats were underwhelming but all accounts were that he was doing a lot of the right things and just didn't have a ton of puck luck. He might be like another Brady Tkachuk in that people will overlook his upside because of his stats.

 
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If Ottawa does go C(Stutzle, Byfield) and D (Drysdale, Sanderson) with 3 and 5, there are so many good options on the wing from the mid first round to early 3rd round.

You want a sexy pick? Reichal, Gunler or Perreault! Hockeyprospects rates Perrault with the same overall grade across the skill categories as Lafreniere. According to many, Perreault is a top 5 or 6 talent this draft. He just has a problem applying a consistent work ethic, but he does show flashes of going all out at times. I think he is worth the risk in 15 to 20 range and he would look real good next to Tkachuk and Byfield.

Reichal is good skater with good skill and hockey sense. He is another guy that may be a real good value with our third first round pick.

Judging from the Sens drafting MO, Mercer and Holloway could be targets. Holloway could be a 50 point player and just be a nightmare to play against, with that skating, motor and physically. He would be first on puck, win battles and has enough skill to make some plays. Adding Holloway to forward group that would include Byfield, Tkachuk, Formenton and Pinto, as guys with skill and compete, would be something. The Sens, with proper defensive structure, would just shut teams down.

What about some second round guys? There are so many: Robbins, Rashevsky, Evagelista, Wiesblatt, Colangelo, Torgersson and Wisdom just to name few. There is a top six winger(or two) to be had in 2nd round and third rounds.
 
For me, it would be hard to pass on one of Raymond or Perfetti to go for Drysdale. Between Rossi and Drysdale it's a closer comparison but I think that at 5 we need one of those 2 wingers. That is way too much skill to pass up, regardless which one we get. Chabot-Brannstrom-Wolanin-JBD-Jaros-Thomson seems like it has above average potential as a D core and that's excluding a potential UFA addition to the top 4 once FYOUS truly begins... :naughty: (very hypothetical I know).
 
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You know, the more I deeply think about it, the more I realize this draft can solve any and all of our center woes for next decade and shore up our defense for that time too. I don't know if management will let that opportunity pass them.

If we draft Stutzle/Byfield with 3rd

Sanderson would 5th. Then trade up and get Lundell.

Tkachuk-Byfield/Stutz-Batherson
Duclair-Lundell-Someone
Formenton-Norris-White
Paul-Pinto-Brown

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Wolanin-Boro/Zub

There's definite risk in letting a potential franchise RW go in Raymond, or not draft Drysdale instead, but that's a championship defense makeup, even if Sanderson doesn't reach his max potential. And that centre depth could be the best in the league without a doubt, even if two guys fail, we cemented our options to ensure we still get 2 guys to lead us at that position.

That's a tough, tough team to play against with speed, skill, and defensive play; only lacks one more gamebreaker on offense to truly be dominant.
 
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We could also try to obtain Sergachev which will allow us to focus on drafting 2 potential star forwards with our top 2 picks. It will likely mean losing Brannstrom and/or the NYI but that's a good sacrifice when considering we could have a shot at Raymond or someone else at 5.

Maybe management super high on Guhle (who I really like) and draft him with NYI and trade up from our 33th to select Zary/Holloway?

By/Stutz, Raymond/Perf, Guhle, Zary/Holloway. Great draft.

Or management assume next year we finish bottom 10 in D filled draft and address defense then?

A lot of options and routes we can take, but I feel the one I mentioned in post above could be too enticing for management to pass up on.
 
We could also try to obtain Sergachev which will allow us to focus on drafting 2 potential star forwards with our top 2 picks. It will likely mean losing Brannstrom and/or the NYI but that's a good sacrifice when considering we could have a shot at Raymond or someone else at 5.

Maybe management super high on Guhle (who I really like) and draft him with NYI and trade up from our 33th to select Zary/Holloway?

By/Stutz, Raymond/Perf, Guhle, Zary/Holloway. Great draft.

Or management assume next year we finish bottom 10 in D filled draft and address defense then?

A lot of options and routes we can take, but I feel the one I mentioned in post above could be too enticing for management to pass up on.

This is a key consideration in my opinion. Let's not kid ourselves, we're going to be terrible again next year. This will be the same team as this season. Add a little more experience for the young players and maybe a fun rookie or two, but subtract some decline in our veterans and subtract Pageau. We're not going to be finishing outside of the bottom 5 barring some miracle development from our youngsters.

Now, let's imagine we take Sanderson this draft at #5 and then next year the BPA at our pick is Carson Lambos, Luke Hughes, or Owen Power (all LHD). One of Chabot, Sanderson or Lambos is either going to have to play on the third pairing moving forward, or be traded.

I completely understand that the premise of the BPA approach: you take the best player available, and then trade him for an equivalent calibre player at the position you actually need. But in the real world, this means two things need to happen:
  1. A team actually has an asset at the position you need that they are willing to trade. Trades of young high-calibre players don't happen that often in the modern NHL. And as we know too well, making a trade as the GM of the Ottawa Senators is even more difficult because we're hamstrung by the Melnyk's financial considerations.
  2. You are actually able to develop the BPA you take so that their trade value is maximized. This is another thing that's no guarantee. If we take a young talented defenceman but their opportunities are limited because of the players ahead of them (e.g. Chabot) and they aren't playing with a forward group that can take advantage of their talent, they're not going to develop properly and they're not going to put up the kind of production needed to maximize their trade value. And frankly, I don't think either of Stutzle or Byfield would benefit as much from having another top d-man behind them as they would having someone like Raymond to play with either on their line or on the powerplay.
Obviously, I'm not an NHL scout and it's possible that the Sens are firmly of the belief that Drysdale and Sanderson are going to turn out much, much better than any of the forwards available at 5. Then you have to take one of them. But my position is that if they think there are forwards available who are close to JD/JS as prospects, it's a better strategic decision to draft the forward even if you think Drysdale or Sanderson might have marginally higher potential in a vacuum.

Another caveat is if the Sens are firmly convinced they can land a top-line calibre forward at the Isles pick or with their 2nd rounders. But I would rather shoot my shot at getting another top-line forward at #5 and draft a d-man project later in the first or in the second.

Anyway, I'm not going to lose sleep if the Sens taken Drysdale or Sanderson, but I'd be a little disappointed.
 
if we only had one pick.i would be firmly FIRMLY steadfast with Byfield. but since se have two i want stutzle and raymond with a trade up for a sliding lundell .
 
This is a key consideration in my opinion. Let's not kid ourselves, we're going to be terrible again next year. This will be the same team as this season. Add a little more experience for the young players and maybe a fun rookie or two, but subtract some decline in our veterans and subtract Pageau. We're not going to be finishing outside of the bottom 5 barring some miracle development from our youngsters.

Now, let's imagine we take Sanderson this draft at #5 and then next year the BPA at our pick is Carson Lambos, Luke Hughes, or Owen Power (all LHD). One of Chabot, Sanderson or Lambos is either going to have to play on the third pairing moving forward, or be traded.

I completely understand that the premise of the BPA approach: you take the best player available, and then trade him for an equivalent calibre player at the position you actually need. But in the real world, this means two things need to happen:
  1. A team actually has an asset at the position you need that they are willing to trade. Trades of young high-calibre players don't happen that often in the modern NHL. And as we know too well, making a trade as the GM of the Ottawa Senators is even more difficult because we're hamstrung by the Melnyk's financial considerations.
  2. You are actually able to develop the BPA you take so that their trade value is maximized. This is another thing that's no guarantee. If we take a young talented defenceman but their opportunities are limited because of the players ahead of them (e.g. Chabot) and they aren't playing with a forward group that can take advantage of their talent, they're not going to develop properly and they're not going to put up the kind of production needed to maximize their trade value. And frankly, I don't think either of Stutzle or Byfield would benefit as much from having another top d-man behind them as they would having someone like Raymond to play with either on their line or on the powerplay.
Obviously, I'm not an NHL scout and it's possible that the Sens are firmly of the belief that Drysdale and Sanderson are going to turn out much, much better than any of the forwards available at 5. Then you have to take one of them. But my position is that if they think there are forwards available who are close to JD/JS as prospects, it's a better strategic decision to draft the forward even if you think Drysdale or Sanderson might have marginally higher potential in a vacuum.

Another caveat is if the Sens are firmly convinced they can land a top-line calibre forward at the Isles pick or with their 2nd rounders. But I would rather shoot my shot at getting another top-line forward at #5 and draft a d-man project later in the first or in the second.

Anyway, I'm not going to lose sleep if the Sens taken Drysdale or Sanderson, but I'd be a little disappointed.
Whoever they feel is the best player they should take. There are more forwards in the top 10 than D next year as of now, and that is bound to change as it does every year (Sanderson/Quinn/Rossi/Stutzle wouldn’t have been on anyone’s radar as top 10 guys last year, that will happen again next year) and making a pick in a draft based on a prediction that is bound to change based upon so many different variables in the next year isn’t a smart way of making decisions.

The BPA has in the top 10 could also be Clarke or Cuelemons, both right D, or Raty, Johnson, Bolduc, Pinelli, Sillenger, Roy, all forwards. Planning a pick based upon the next draft makes little sense when where we are going to finish, and how we will rank the guys is in flux for another full year.
 
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if we only had one pick.i would be firmly FIRMLY steadfast with Byfield. but since se have two i want stutzle and raymond with a trade up for a sliding lundell .

Why would Stuetzle and Raymond be any better than Byfield and Raymond?

Personally, I'd rather Jarvis than Lundell. A couple years down the road and we might not have room for everyone anyways...

Tkachuk-Byfield-Raymond
Duclair-Norris-Jarvis
Formenton-Brown-Batherson
Balcers/Paul-White-C.Brown

Ryan, Pinto, Tierney, Chlapik, Abramov
 
How is Byfield's defensive game? Is it based on work ethic and IQ or just him being big?
 
The highlights show that Byfield has a defensive game. It's likely not matured yet but it does exist.

I saw him back checking and forcing turnovers in his own end. I get the feeling Byfield thinks of himself as an offense first playmaker (like a Malkin) but he's probably not far away from being an all around two way force.

When the lottery first happened, I was bummed because I really wanted Stutzle and the internet world was speculating LA wanted him too. But, the more I have watched Byfield, the more excited I've become about him being a Sen. But now it seems the internet world is shifting again and speculating that Byfield will go 2nd to LA.

I think both are awesome. I loved Stutzle's interview on the Bob Mckenzie draft ranking. He comes across as smart, and level headed. He said he wants to add muscle and emulate Draisaitl.

Either one will be great IMO.
 
Why would Stuetzle and Raymond be any better than Byfield and Raymond?

Personally, I'd rather Jarvis than Lundell. A couple years down the road and we might not have room for everyone anyways...

Tkachuk-Byfield-Raymond
Duclair-Norris-Jarvis
Formenton-Brown-Batherson
Balcers/Paul-White-C.Brown

Ryan, Pinto, Tierney, Chlapik, Abramov
simply for the aesthetic. Stutzle raymond have that dashy style.. and then lundell is that smart centermen. all euros.
 
How is Byfield's defensive game? Is it based on work ethic and IQ or just him being big?

I have the same question. I haven't seen much of his defensive play. There are question marks on his consistency of play overall.

The best aspect of his defensive game is his hustle backchecking. Hes usually thr first forward back helping out.

Where he needs work is sometimes positioning in the D zone. He sometimes overcommitts chasing the puck or dman and others times he sort of I wouldn't call it 'floating" but hes maybe "patrolling" the high slot area.

But that comes down to coaching. Some coaches ask their C to help the D behind the net and the corners, others are asked to strictly patrol the slot.

Hes intelligent and learning how to correctly play the D zone coverage will not be an issue for him.
 
EliteProspects has a 4.5 hour video of them discussing and ranking 124 prospects for this draft. behind a paywall but i would be interested in viewing.. with lots of fast forwarding of course ...4.5 hours
 
So a while back I did a chart comparing the expected value of our picks (blue bullet model) vs historical comparables, our picks slid in the lottery but we still come out with what I believe is the most valuable collection of picks in the history of the draft (don't quote me on that though, I only did a cursory search) *** Note this does not account for the respective quality of draft cohorts, so McDavid, Crosby, Lemieux draft years and others of their ilk would skew things but that doesn't show in this comparison.


Ott 2020Pick ValueVan 1999Pick ValueNYI 2000Pick ValueBos 1997Pick Value
365.528411001100
553.5365.5553.5831.1
2112.7693.61011.52711
3381290.81051.4544.2
494.31720.61360.8633.6
524.21890.61480.8812.2
534.22180.42020.51350.8
643.72710.42640.41620.8
742.32640.41800.6
951.71910.5
1500.82180.4
1600.82460.4
2160.4
TOTAL162.1155.9159.3155.6
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
 
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I'm not a fan of Holloway from what I've seen so far. I think he's a 3rd liner or worse. He'll have an NHL career but I don't see offensive upside there.

Maybe I'm wrong but I'd take Norris over him for sure and likely the other two as well.

Even if he doesn't translate his top 6 scoring upside i feel like he flashes enough skill to make him a dangerous and valuable 3rd liner (4th lines should be abolished). Especially combined with his skating ability, physical game, and willingness to be a defensive player. Sort of like a Mike Fisher. Who wouldn't want a Mike Fisher.

They are all similar players in that their all around fundamentals are so solid. Maybe no stand out abilities but no weaknesses either, this is especially true for Norris who is just good at everything and has translated it into incredible pro numbers so far.
 
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