NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - PART XI [We got 3-5]

[BondraTime]

I don’t want Holloway with the guys available in the first. If he makes it to 33, sure.

 

[Frank8]

So Byfield is a defensively-sound 6'4" skilled centre that has put up huge point totals in junior that weren't driven by the fact that he's way bigger than his peers?

Sounds like the perennial prospect that gets over-analyzed and over-complicated.

If he's available, you take him.

All day long. And then you round out your simple but elegant approach by taking Rossi.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I don’t want Holloway with the guys available in the first. If he makes it to 33, sure.

Exactly my sentiment on this player. Good value at 33, not enough reward at 13-21.

 

[BondraTime]

Exactly my sentiment on this player. Good value at 33, not enough reward at 13-21.

I think he’s a 1st round pick, but he’s a player that the Sens have a ton of already. Dependable, low ceiling forward who will almost assuredly be an NHLer.

Sens should be getting guys who can play high in the lineups, and have high ceilings. We are already extremely, extremely stocked with depth.

 

[Hale The Villain]

We should be going high-upside on all our picks this year (like every year), particularly in the 2nd when the quality starts to drop off.

Guys like Perreault, Gunler, Lapierre, Foerster, Colangelo, Brisson, etc... players that have top 6 skill but a lower floor than other guys.

No point in drafting White/Lazar/Bowers-types, where the upside is a 2nd/3rd line tweener and the downside is a 4th liner. We almost have too much young depth as it is right now, and that's before we add another 10 kids or so in the top 2 rounds in 2020 and 2021.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dylan Holloway would be better than all of Norris,White, Pinto imo

IMO Holloway will go to the wing. I think he will be a good utility player that can play up and down the lineup. Wisconsin was a bit of a mess this year from what I heard. I have not witnessed enough to make that assertion. I think he is in the same kind of tier as those players which is really not bad. I would like him as a winger .. I think he belongs around 20 . I like the top 6 upside of a few players more but he is a safe pick and I think he is a Sens kind of pick.. not many warts if any

If the Sens never go for those high ceiling picks . they will end up with a middle of the road team with a couple guys they get lucky on.

 

[Cosmix]

We should be going high-upside on all our picks this year (like every year), particularly in the 2nd when the quality starts to drop off.

Guys like Perreault, Gunler, Lapierre, Foerster, Colangelo, Brisson, etc... players that have top 6 skill but a lower floor than other guys.

No point in drafting White/Lazar/Bowers-types, where the upside is a 2nd/3rd line tweener and the downside is a 4th liner. We almost have too much young depth as it is right now, and that's before we add another 10 kids or so in the top 2 rounds in 2020 and 2021.

I am intrigued by Hendrix Lapierre. Hopefully we can draft him with the NYI pick. He might be a steal if his health issues can be resolved. Imagine a line with Byfield, Raymond and Lapierre.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

IMO Holloway will go to the wing. I think he will be a good utility player that can play up and down the lineup. Wisconsin was a bit of a mess this year from what I heard. I have not witnessed enough to make that assertion. I think he is in the same kind of tier as those players which is really not bad. I would like him as a winger .. I think he belongs around 20 . I like the top 6 upside of a few players more but he is a safe pick and I think he is a Sens kind of pick.. not many warts if any

If the Sens never go for those high ceiling picks . they will end up with a middle of the road team with a couple guys they get lucky on.

It depends on where the NYI pick actually ends up. Holloway is a solid pick and he appears a bit undervalued on here but if the pick is high enough there will be other prospects with higher offensive upside available. So like you said it could make sense to target those other prospects.

The positive with Holloway is that he fits exactly the type of team identity the Sens are trying to build, the negative is that there are meaningful doubts about his offensive upside. So part of the challenge is finding a prospect that still fits the team identity but has arguably more skill. Seth Jarvis would be a really good target in that sense. Also there are plenty of forward prospects with size and toughness available throughout this draft. While Holloway could be a valuable piece to add there will be plenty of options to add more of that element to the prospect pool.

I do think it is important though for the Sens management to stick to the team identity they are trying to build and draft accordingly. They should target high end skill with consideration of the gritty team identity and be cautious about drafting certain high skill prospects that won't fit well into the system. Also this is a great draft to add some big and gritty forwards so I think it would be a mistake if we walk away from this draft without drafting a handful of them.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

I don’t want Holloway with the guys available in the first. If he makes it to 33, sure.

Holloway seems like a pretty solid pick. Who are the prospects that have really caught your eye that you would prefer to draft ahead of him? Or stated differently which players are you hoping the Sens target with the NYI pick?

 

[StoicSensFan]

I think he’s a 1st round pick, but he’s a player that the Sens have a ton of already. Dependable, low ceiling forward who will almost assuredly be an NHLer.

Sens should be getting guys who can play high in the lineups, and have high ceilings. We are already extremely, extremely stocked with depth.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I completely understand that the premise of the BPA approach: you take the best player available, and then trade him for an equivalent calibre player at the position you actually need. But in the real world, this means two things need to happen:

1. You are actually able to develop the BPA you take so that their trade value is maximized. This is another thing that's no guarantee. If we take a young talented defenceman but their opportunities are limited because of the players ahead of them (e.g. Chabot) and they aren't playing with a forward group that can take advantage of their talent, they're not going to develop properly and they're not going to put up the kind of production needed to maximize their trade value. And frankly, I don't think either of Stutzle or Byfield would benefit as much from having another top d-man behind them as they would having someone like Raymond to play with either on their line or on the powerplay.

this is an excellent excellent point.

If we draft Byfield, we will need all the support to get him to succeed and IMO that’s a line driver.

Also, if we select Byfield/Stutz, man these guys gonna be coming in with enormous pressure on them, having another elite top 5 forward will not only immensely ease that pressure, but it will give them someone to play with that is skilled to help maximize each of their own potential.

That’s kinda why I said Byfield/Stutz, Sanderson ANDD Lundell; the first player selected won’t have that do or die pressure since we still selected a top end C prospect in Lundell.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

So, when are we expecting the draft to happen do you think? And when are CHL/NCAA/Other leagues gonna start playing?

 

[Crosside]

So, when are we expecting the draft to happen do you think? And when are CHL/NCAA/Other leagues gonna start playing?

Friedman talk about the 6 October for draft , 9 for free agency , 17 November training camp and 1 December season begin

 

[JD1]

this is an excellent excellent point.

If we draft Byfield, we will need all the support to get him to succeed and IMO that’s a line driver.

Also, if we select Byfield/Stutz, man these guys gonna be coming in with enormous pressure on them, having another elite top 5 forward will not only immensely ease that pressure, but it will give them someone to play with that is skilled to help maximize each of their own potential.

That’s kinda why I said Byfield/Stutz, Sanderson ANDD Lundell; the first player selected won’t have that do or die pressure since we still selected a top end C prospect in Lundell.

IDK, in my opinion the biggest challenge in Ottawa the past few years has been the ability, or rather the inability, to exit our zone with puck control and enter the O zone with puck control. The best cure for that is high end PMDs.

So much talk about line drivers.....the biggest driver of play is high end PMDs....something Ottawa fans should understand better than most after witnessing EK's prime

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don’t want Holloway with the guys available in the first. If he makes it to 33, sure.

damn i love the guy and wouldnt absolutlely take him late teens. he does everything well. played on a wierd ass team last year. im willing to bet theres some more offense there.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I have the same question. I haven't seen much of his defensive play. There are question marks on his consistency of play overall.

no.. his entire game seems to be ver good for a kid his age.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

No paywall

made it anhour ten in. to about pick 20. will keep listening today.

their top 4 was pretty much all agreed on. Laf, Byfield, raymond, rossi. At 5 is when the discussions started. Drysdale vs Holtz. and then at 7-8 perfetti vs stutzle.

12-13-14-15 brought a lot of good discussion between Bourque, Jarvis, Brisson,.... gunler was going to be in the top 20 but everytime they discussed him he wold fall for another player. helge Grans snuck in in the top 20.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Let’s be fair. Nothing about norris rookie pro year indicates he’s a low ceiling guy. He may still be one, but his rookie season was dope.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It depends on where the NYI pick actually ends up. Holloway is a solid pick and he appears a bit undervalued on here but if the pick is high enough there will be other prospects with higher offensive upside available. So like you said it could make sense to target those other prospects.

The positive with Holloway is that he fits exactly the type of team identity the Sens are trying to build, the negative is that there are meaningful doubts about his offensive upside. So part of the challenge is finding a prospect that still fits the team identity but has arguably more skill. Seth Jarvis would be a really good target in that sense. Also there are plenty of forward prospects with size and toughness available throughout this draft. While Holloway could be a valuable piece to add there will be plenty of options to add more of that element to the prospect pool.

I do think it is important though for the Sens management to stick to the team identity they are trying to build and draft accordingly. They should target high end skill with consideration of the gritty team identity and be cautious about drafting certain high skill prospects that won't fit well into the system. Also this is a great draft to add some big and gritty forwards so I think it would be a mistake if we walk away from this draft without drafting a handful of them.

Team identity has to be a collective thing as well .. Not every player will be able to check all the boxes. One of those boxes has to be skill. I have heard Holloway was used in more of a checking role in Wisconsin playing 3rd line minutes. I think looking at his stats alone could be a mistake that has been made before. I also think there are more high ceiling higher skilled players available in that 13-20ish range of the draft.

Possible Elements of an identity. The ideal player would grade high in all of those categories. Not many will. You have to balance the characteristics..
Speed
Motor
Hard / Gritty
Skill
IQ
Character
Size
Goal Scoring/Shot
2 way / Mature

Holloway could be a good piece on this team imo and he could grade pretty high across all those elements, although other players would grade higher in certain of them. I also think we are very lacking in that higher end skill, high end play makers, and could probably use a goal scorer.. If we always leave that behind due to perceived "issues" in one or more of the other boxes in favor of the good 2 way , high character play for example, we and up lacking some abilities as a team. We end up being good on the PK (or should) and not so good on the PP. I could see the Sens liking the overall package Holloway brings.

 

[BondraTime]

made it anhour ten in. to about pick 20. will keep listening today.

their top 4 was pretty much all agreed on. Laf, Byfield, raymond, rossi. At 5 is when the discussions started. Drysdale vs Holtz. and then at 7-8 perfetti vs stutzle.

12-13-14-15 brought a lot of good discussion between Bourque, Jarvis, Brisson,.... gunler was going to be in the top 20 but everytime they discussed him he wold fall for another player. helge Grans snuck in in the top 20.

It’s a good listen to work for sure, but I don’t really agree with a lot of their reasoning and methods.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

made it anhour ten in. to about pick 20. will keep listening today.

their top 4 was pretty much all agreed on. Laf, Byfield, raymond, rossi. At 5 is when the discussions started. Drysdale vs Holtz. and then at 7-8 perfetti vs stutzle.

12-13-14-15 brought a lot of good discussion between Bourque, Jarvis, Brisson,.... gunler was going to be in the top 20 but everytime they discussed him he wold fall for another player. helge Grans snuck in in the top 20.

They have a list . I sent you a link.
Just can't get over their Stutzle ranking.

 

[BondraTime]

They have a list . I sent you a link.
Just can't get over their Stutzle ranking.

I’m fine with the ranking if there is a good reason put forth, listening to them/him explain why was painful

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I’m fine with the ranking if there is a good reason put forth, listening to them/him explain why was painful

little bit of group think going on there and they seem to get tunnel vision. The round table does produce some good thoughts and they seem to do their homework but like you say the ranking method seems pretty loose.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

They have a list . I sent you a link.
Just can't get over their Stutzle ranking.

yeah i saw the list, but i want to hear why thats their list.

I was just pointing out where the discussions took place in their list.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I’m fine with the ranking if there is a good reason put forth, listening to them/him explain why was painful

it is what it is.

i personally thought Stutzle got overhyped and i didnt think he was THAT great at the wjc either. like sure on the PP hes electric he flies off that half wall, he rifles passes across the ice (not always connect) hes electric. but not wowed. so this jives with my bias. would i have him 8, no. theres too many tools there to have him that low. i cant see having perfetti before him, but not Holtz. but theres video on top of video of him skating and stickhandling himself into trouble repeatedly, which is not the third video ive seen with that being the complaint.

I mean i can watch iso vids and highlight packs all i want but its nice to hear what other people think. especialy when they delve a little deeper like im board of Bobs list just using classic NHL buzzwords.,