Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part VI

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

OV has never thrown a hit that wasn't borderline charging. Lafreniere is not at that level of hitter.

But he hits people and isn't shy about defending himself. Think more Landeskog in the physicality/grit area.

Lmao I was just watching highlights from his first nhl game and literally his first play was a big hit, and I went back to see if it was charging, it was like right on the borderline.

 

[426ers]

It's tough to compare Lafreniere to anyone because of his skillset. His physical edge on top of his world class talent.

Peter Forsberg and, don't kill me, Mark Messier, are the ones that come to mind that combine those 2. I am not saying Lafreniere will reach the level those two did, but purely based on bringing that edge on top of world class talent.

I have heard comparisons to Kovalev, except Lafreniere plays every shift and doesn't dog it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I have heard comparisons to Kovalev, except Lafreniere plays every shift and doesn't dog it.

Pfff. No way Lafreniere can play a 5 minute shift and still smile afterwards

 

[Ola]

I'd say for Lafreniere it's more than throwing checks. It's also throwing an elbow, or a chop with the stick.

I would caution people not get too carried away with the gritty/physical talk. He's not going to go out there and mow people down in open ice or maul someone who looks at him funny.

But I can see him pulling a Pavel Bure and stalking someone down the ice and letting them know he's not going to be taken out of the game via intimidation.

OV has never thrown a hit that wasn't borderline charging. Lafreniere is not at that level of hitter.

But he hits people and isn't shy about defending himself. Think more Landeskog in the physicality/grit area.

Yeah, and its also what is so exciting about these kids, who knows what they will end up being in 5-10 years. AO was maybe 17 y/o when I saw him first, he wasn't that physical if at all. Granted it was against men. OTOH I remember following a PO series very closely when a 17 y/o Zibanejad played for Djurgården, he finished every single check and played like a PF. Forsberg was always the extremely stubborn type who took many bad penalties as a kid. But he was both short and thin right up until the draft really. Like 5'10 170 lbs maybe when he was 17 y/o. He grew a lot late.

 

[Ola]

Pfff. No way Lafreniere can play a 5 minute shift and still smile afterwards

15 minutes

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

A question I'd have is, if (big IF) the Rangers are as hot for someone like Lundell as been said, would they consider moving a roster player to get him?

He's not gonna play in the NHL next season you assume, but if they think he's close to making an impact at the NHL level, do they trade a roster player for the pick to select him?

 

[aufheben]

What is the big deal about Lundell?

 

[mas0764]

This is a statement made based strictly on accumulating.......draft picks.......

Hellllloooooooo perpetual rebuild. How are you today? Oh, wait, we burned off multiple years of Panarin's contract.

Not perpetual at all.

The Rangers will never be the Oilers or Sabres. History shows if nothing else the Rangers never bottom out. We are in the middle of the most complete rebuild of our lifetimes and we still didn't get lower than 6th from the bottom.

Burning off a couple years of Panarin's contract I can live with. What I can't live with is not amassing overwhelming talent to make sure this team is a decade long contender.

That being said I think the post you are referencing is trading DeAngelo, Strome, Buch, and Georgiev, and I don't think anyone realistically expects all that to happen. But any one or two of them should certainly be on the table. And since Georgiev is somewhat redundant, I could say three of them, since I would definitely trade Buch and Strome to get a LD and a center, and Georgiev would just not really be needed here.

Realistically if they could find a way to get up for Lundell I think most of the trade scenarios would end. A young, top center prospect or player is a desperate need, way more important than keeping guys who will be overpaid third liners when we are ready to win a Cup.

 

[mas0764]

A question I'd have is, if (big IF) the Rangers are as hot for someone like Lundell as been said, would they consider moving a roster player to get him?

He's not gonna play in the NHL next season you assume, but if they think he's close to making an impact at the NHL level, do they trade a roster player for the pick to select him?

The scuttlebutt is likely they are not willing to, but that is very disappointing to hear to me.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

What is the big deal about Lundell?

He's very handsome young man

But aside from that he checks a lot of boxes the Rangers could use for a center for their next core

 

[dshea19]

A question I'd have is, if (big IF) the Rangers are as hot for someone like Lundell as been said, would they consider moving a roster player to get him?

He's not gonna play in the NHL next season you assume, but if they think he's close to making an impact at the NHL level, do they trade a roster player for the pick to select him?

I think that depends on the player and who they think would replace him. If it is Buch, do you think Kakko can fill that role now? Do you have the guys to slot up into the vacated role? If they are high enough on Lundell, I would give up Buch because the value of that center role is, I think, greater than what Buch brings to the table. Especially since there are guys waiting in the wings. Krav may not be ready yet, but I have little doubts he will be. I think he just needs to get that adult strength and his ability and IQ will sort everything else out.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, and its also what is so exciting about these kids, who knows what they will end up being in 5-10 years. AO was maybe 17 y/o when I saw him first, he wasn't that physical if at all. Granted it was against men. OTOH I remember following a PO series very closely when a 17 y/o Zibanejad played for Djurgården, he finished every single check and played like a PF. Forsberg was always the extremely stubborn type who took many bad penalties as a kid. But he was both short and thin right up until the draft really. Like 5'10 170 lbs maybe when he was 17 y/o. He grew a lot late.

And frankly that's the type of season Lafreniere had this past year.

He just kept getting better, and growing, and developing. That's what really put that gap in place between him and others. It wasn't that they didn't grow - some developed quite a bit actually. But rather it was that Lafreniere just kept getting better and better.

 

[True Blue]

Not perpetual at all.

How did having all those picks work out for the Oilers? Or Buffalo?

The Rangers will never be the Oilers or Sabres. History shows if nothing else the Rangers never bottom out. We are in the middle of the most complete rebuild of our lifetimes and we still didn't get lower than 6th from the bottom.

You just traded away 2 of your top 5 forwards and a 24 year old defenseman who just netted 60 points. And replaced them with.......prospects that MAY help in 3-5 years. I would say that puts a rather big crimp in your plans for a few years.

We may be in the middle of this rebuild, but that does not change the fact that it comes in several stages. And the pure "trade players for picks and prospects" stage ended with the last TDL. And just look at the ages of the players who you are trading away here.

Burning off a couple years of Panarin's contract I can live with. What I can't live with is not amassing overwhelming talent to make sure this team is a decade long contender.

You really are looking at what Gorton has done and do not see a massing of talent? Really?

That being said I think the post you are referencing is trading DeAngelo, Strome, Buch, and Georgiev, and I don't think anyone realistically expects all that to happen. But any one or two of them should certainly be on the table. And since Georgiev is somewhat redundant, I could say three of them, since I would definitely trade Buch and Strome to get a LD and a center, and Georgiev would just not really be needed here.

Pretty sure that the post that you were referencing had DeAngelo, Strome and Buchnevich & the Carolina pick as the center pieces for those 3 draft picks.

And now I am confused. You were all about draft picks. Now you are trading Buchnevich and Strome to get an LD and a center? Established or futures?

Realistically if they could find a way to get up for Lundell I think most of the trade scenarios would end. A young, top center prospect or player is a desperate need, way more important than keeping guys who will be overpaid third liners when we are ready to win a Cup.

Dude, I like Lundell as much as anyone and when we were playing the "realistic" draft pick scenario, he was my top choice. But I really cannot understand this level of facination. Is he a solid prospect? Sure. Would I like it if he was in the system? Of course. But you seem to be making him out to be some sort of player that he is not. MAYBE he could step in and play 3C this year. MAYBE. But he is about 5 years away from where I would expect any meaningful offensive contributions. Most have him pegged as a possible second line center, whose floor is being on the third line. This team should be hunting for the Cup before he has a chance to play his way onto a team's top two lines.

Teams that are looking to compete in the playoffs do not trade away 2 or the top 6 forwards, a 60 point defenseman that all comprise about 180-190 points. Sorry. This is not East Coast Hockey Manager.

 

[Edge]

What is the big deal about Lundell?

Good question. I mean obviously Rangers fans are attracted partly because he does fit a lot of team needs.

But, let's put that aside for a second and look at the player.

He's an incredibly smart player who plays a game that looks like it could translate very well to the NHL. He's not skills competition prospect who is out there dangling around a 16 year old defenseman and handing him his lunch.

He's calculated and efficient and effective. He find the open guy, makes the high probability play, and sees the ice very well. He's capable of beating goalies with his shot, though he probably needs to use it more. But he's always in the middle of a play and usually makes things happen.

When I see Lundell, I see a kid with a high probablity to play center in the NHL. The only question is how high the offense will be. Some people think he might be more a 2/3 center. Personally, I think his potential is on the higher end of the second line tier. I know a few teams that view him as more of a 1A/B type not all that different from the level a prime Brassard and Stepan hit.

But he's one of those guys who plays a game that has a clear trajectory to the NHL. You can see how his game works and it's not hard to imagine it working in the NHL --- because it revolves around vision and hockey sense.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The scuttlebutt is likely they are not willing to, but that is very disappointing to hear to me.

Is there any scuttlebutt about this?

I would imagine that they won't trade a roster player for a 1st just to do it, but I can't imagine that they would let certain guys get in the way of a picking a player who they feel can contribute really soon on an ELC.

I personally wouldn't move someone like Buchnevich for the 15th pick. If we're talking about the top 10 and you're hot for Lundell or Rossi slides a bit, I'm all over that. I'm confident that those guys can step in and contribute by 21-22.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Good question. I mean obviously Rangers fans are attracted partly because he does fit a lot of team needs.

But, let's put that aside for a second and look at the player.

He's an incredibly smart player who plays a game that looks like it could translate very well to the NHL. He's not skills competition prospect who is out there dangling around a 16 year old defenseman and handing him his lunch.

He's calculated and efficient and effective. He find the open guy, makes the high probability play, and sees the ice very well. He's capable of beating goalies with his shot, though he probably needs to use it more. But he's always in the middle of a play and usually makes things happen.

When I see Lundell, I see a kid with a high probablity to play center in the NHL. The only question is how high the offense will be. Some people think he might be more a 2/3 center. Personally, I think his potential is on the higher end of the second line tier. I know a few teams that view him as more of a 1A/B type not all that different from the level a prime Brassard and Stepan hit.

But he's one of those guys who plays a game that has a clear trajectory to the NHL. You can see how his game works and it's not hard to imagine it working in the NHL --- because it revolves around vision and hockey sense.

I have been a huge Lundell fan and while I understand the hesitation by som for not wanting us to draft a 2-way player in the top-10, Lundell ticks so many boxes that IMO he is worth it.

The only reason he dropped in rankings, is because he missed the WJC because of an injury. But in Liiga, he has dominated as a teenager. 2nd league-wide in CF% (Liiga has very limited advanced stats available, so we work with what we have). Adding Lundell to this team fills a huge hole going forward. Having a young center in your middle 6, and adding a guy like Danault/Cirelli (even though that's more wishful thinking than anything else) would set us up down the middle for the next 5 years, with Lundell taking over from Danault when he inches closer to his mid-30s.

 

[duhmetreE]

What I love about Ovechkin smashing people... on how hesitant teammates are to react...

 

[duhmetreE]

Lafreniere seems very similar to Panarin stylistically speaking. Like a Canadian lumberjack Panarin.

 

[mas0764]

Is there any scuttlebutt about this?

I would imagine that they won't trade a roster player for a 1st just to do it, but I can't imagine that they would let certain guys get in the way of a picking a player who they feel can contribute really soon on an ELC.

I personally wouldn't move someone like Buchnevich for the 15th pick. If we're talking about the top 10 and you're hot for Lundell or Rossi slides a bit, I'm all over that. I'm confident that those guys can step in and contribute by 21-22.

Well, just Edge and what he has said. That he doesn't anticipate they will move a roster player for a pick/prospect at this point.

But again, Lundell (or Rossi) fits our future needs like a glove, and Buch does not.

I agree, there is a difference between trading away guys for "futures," ie, trading Rick Nash for a first and a far-off prospect, and you have little idea about what those things become, or even where the pick is...... versus sitting there on draft day saying "I've wanted Lundell for a while, and if I part with Buch, I can have him, and I'd expect Lundell to be able to play on the third line within a year and on the second line within 3 years a la Chytil."

I'm all about the latter as well. I don't want to move Buch for "who knows, maybe Dylan Holloway." And under normal circumstances probably not just the 12th pick either.

But when you know that Lundell is sitting there and you know what he's likely to be, yes, I want to make that deal.

 

[Edge]

Well, just Edge and what he has said. That he doesn't anticipate they will move a roster player for a pick/prospect at this point.

Correct, I really don't think that's the preference right now. I think they'd rather trade an established roster player for an established roster player.

Now, having said, I do think there's a window for the Rangers if the Canes pick is high enough (and they keep it) and they see someone hovering in the mid to late teens.

That's a scenario where they could package the Canes pick, maybe a third, maybe younger roster player, something along those lines.

But they're not getting into the top 10 with that package, and I really don't think that's their primary objective anyway.

 

[Edge]

I have been a huge Lundell fan and while I understand the hesitation by som for not wanting us to draft a 2-way player in the top-10, Lundell ticks so many boxes that IMO he is worth it.

The only reason he dropped in rankings, is because he missed the WJC because of an injury. But in Liiga, he has dominated as a teenager. 2nd league-wide in CF% (Liiga has very limited advanced stats available, so we work with what we have). Adding Lundell to this team fills a huge hole going forward. Having a young center in your middle 6, and adding a guy like Danault/Cirelli (even though that's more wishful thinking than anything else) would set us up down the middle for the next 5 years, with Lundell taking over from Danault when he inches closer to his mid-30s.

I think there's a very strong possibility that Lundell goes higher than this board expects.

In fact, at least based on a pattern I am seeing, I think Jarvis is going to go high as well.

The faller? It might be Mercer.

I think Toronto is going with a defenseman at 15, and that's going to push another forward down.

Right now, I think you're looking at very good odds that 4 defensemen and a goalie are picked in the top 15.

 

[bigdog16]

I think i might be the only one here who isnt that high on Lundell. I don't think the Liiga is a strong league and I think his skill set is pretty limited

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think i might be the only one here who isnt that high on Lundell. I don't think the Liiga is a strong league and I think his skill set is pretty limited

I like him but hes not top 10 for me.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I think i might be the only one here who isnt that high on Lundell. I don't think the Liiga is a strong league and I think his skill set is pretty limited

The for/against-Lundell stuff on this board seems to sway back and forth from week to week, one week the for crowd is talking about him a bit more, then the next week it's the against crowd

 

[bigdog16]

I like him but hes not top 10 for me.

Same. Obviously a 1st rounder. But closer to 20 than to 10 for me