Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part V

[ecemleafs]

Yes, and I get that. I'm just saying that that is literally the only potential downside I could find. His game is flawless. Brady Tkachuk was an early birthday so it's definitely not a reason to skip on Lafreniere. Sometimes players are just dealt a bad hand with their parents having sex in December

off the top of my head in recent years....kane, doughty, tavares, hall, jones, eichel, matthews were all late birthdays that were drafted at or near the top of the draft.

 

[426ers]

it is a unique and context based situation
Ottawa and maybe Buff have the urgency, and the assets, to overpay for this game=changing player
Massive, Lindro-like package needed though.
If I am Gorton, I only even bring to my exec team a huge package, before likely declining anyway
in my view these type deals could tempt Gorts:
OTT: 3d, 5th, another 1st (NYI'20 if not bottom 4, or '21 or '22), a few 2ds (Ott has 7 '20'21) and a read-ier prospect like Gruden
Buff: 8th, Cozens, another first, one of their blue-chip college D (Johnson/Samuelsson), a read-ier prospect like Pekar, some more

Crazy, but less than the Lindros haul
NOT comparing Laf directly to Lindros, but this is a powerful unique opportunity for those teams
(a) Laf is the best draft-eligible skater since AMatt, and maybe for another 5 years
(b) NYR have no pressure to pass on Laf, they'd need an irresistible offer
(c) a couple franchises at critical crossroads hoping to become relevant quick

last time i will post these proposals
they are extreme, but i am serious,
i recall the Lindros auction,
and other huge many for 1 deals, like NYR getting Bubba

Give me Ottawas 3rd, 5th and kachuck and I would have to think about it.

 

[eco's bones]

Half Kidding, obviously this isnt a concern with Alexis. In seriousness however, I was heavily disappointed in DQ's decision making during the play in round. It was a small sample of course, but it was humiliating to watch. Players like Alexis need very little management, but that's not to say that he is just going to be a legend off the bat. He is 18 years old. He needs some coaching, and we brought in DQ to coach our young players, but what happens when a young star like Alexis gets to the playoffs and is stuck out there on his own because DQ is throwing McKegg and Howden out there when we're a goal down? Obviously I am exaggerating, but I would not completely dismiss the fact that all of these great names we are comparing Alexis to had good experienced coaches, except when MacK had to deal with Roy which was a disaster for that club.

For most of the team this was their first playoffs ever. It was a very young and inexperienced team and it showed. We also had injury issues--Shesterkin, Fast and a Lemieux suspension and a back to back game 2 and 3 and our depth players were not nearly as good as theirs. Carolina's goaltending was better than ours too and that includes the game Shesterkin played. Most all of these things were out of Quinn's control but they add up and when combined it's what it is. Carolina was the better team.

 

[cwede]

Give me Ottawas 3rd, 5th and kachuck and I would have to think about it.

yeah, i know, but i tried to build deals that, while excessive, might actually happen;
Tkachuk is the reason Ott's hopes began to be credible, he was the first giant step game-changer,
the Toews to Laf as Kane, the Sid to Laf as Geno (the Kakko to Laf as Laf

 

[UnSandvich]

I honestly would be seriously tempted by that "All of Ottawa's picks for 1OA" thing. We'd have 4 first rounders (including 2 in the Top 5), and 4 2nds. A draft like that could set a team up for a decade. And that's assuming we keep all the picks instead of trading some for more immediate help

Still not sure I'd take it though

EDIT: Per the draft sim, OTT has (currently): 3, 5, 21, 33, 49, 52, 55, 64, 74, 95, 152, 158, 185.
So if we took that trade for 1 OA, we'd have picks at (again, per the draft sim):

3, 5, 21, 22, 33, 49, 52, 55, 64, 74, 76, 86, 95, 107, 138, 152, 158, 169, 185, 200, 201, 202

 

[Edge]

All great points. Andersson wasn't my guy at 7, but I certainly wanted to see him succeed. If only because the guy I felt he could become -- I thought he could be a Chris Drury type for us -- was extremely valuable. My biggest disappointment isn't that he was picked that high, it's that it doesn't look like he's ever going to be able to contribute to this team on the ice. Even if the offense never came, having those intangibles in the lineup would be welcome.

Unfortunately it just seems like the partnership is destined for a split. Unless they swing a heck of a trade, his legacy is going to be as a bullet point in posts trying to argue that Gordie Clark needs to be put out to pasture.

And for the record, he wouldn’t have been my choice. I was willing to roll the dice on Vilardi.

 

[Edge]

I know that you are not doing it, and certainly I am not the one who is going to expect that for this year, but you talk about a complete game changer of an expectation for this year if he comes in and is on a Kreider level for his rookie year. That is one of those things that completely changes the expectation for the year. And quite possibly what the TDL will look like.

And that goes back to the value component. Let’s say he posts 45 points (I’m just gonna throw a number out there). If most of the roster holds steady, that’s possibly the difference between having the 10th pick and the draft, and picking around 18 and making the playoffs. And if you’re heading to the playoffs, and you have a little bit of room, now you look to add someone.

A lot of people had timetables as to when this team could be a legit contender again. For the most part, I’ve leaned on the conservative side and said many of those timetables were a little on the fast side.

But you add Kakko into the mix and it bumps up. Then you add Lefreniere into the mix and now those timetables are a bit more realistic.

 

[Joey Bones]

Who do we think the Rangers will take with their second 1st round pick (assuming they don't trade it away in a deal)? Do they take Gunler, Bisson, Greig, etc.. or do they go for defense and if yes, who do they draft. Do we think that second first round pick could be an impact player for us?

My bet is they go for a gamble/reach, or trade back/up for draft capital/someone on their"must"list or trade it for center depth.

 

[Leetch3]

I honestly would be seriously tempted by that "All of Ottawa's picks for 1OA" thing. We'd have 4 first rounders (including 2 in the Top 5), and 4 2nds. A draft like that could set a team up for a decade. And that's assuming we keep all the picks instead of trading some for more immediate help

Still not sure I'd take it though

EDIT: Per the draft sim, OTT has (currently): 3, 5, 21, 33, 49, 52, 55, 64, 74, 95, 152, 158, 185.
So if we took that trade for 1 OA, we'd have picks at (again, per the draft sim):

3, 5, 21, 22, 33, 49, 52, 55, 64, 74, 76, 86, 95, 107, 138, 152, 158, 169, 185, 200, 201, 202

a few years ago when the system was empty, this would make alot of sense but for us right now 23 picks in one draft seems like overkill and we are in the position where you'd be looking to package together those picks to move up to get a better pick....right now I think its more about quality than quantity for us.

the only way I make that trade is if 1)you aren't sold on lafreniere and/or 2) you think you can get similar level players 3 & 5 and then everything else becomes a bonus. but I don't think either is true this year...

and 23 picks in the same draft is almost too many, there aren't enough spots for everyone. you'd be better off spreading those picks over a few drafts imo

 

[Edge]

My bet is they go for a gamble/reach, or trade back/up for draft capital/someone on their"must"list or trade it for center depth.

Depending on who is out there, they could move up as well.

Personally, depending on how the picks come, I’m cool with them sliding down a few spots and adding a second rounder.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Depending on who is out there, they could move up as well.

Personally, depending on how the picks come, I’m cool with them sliding down a few spots and adding a second rounder.

This would be good too.

#Wiesblattinthe2nd

 

[Edge]

And, Gorton will. But, he would absolutely have to be floored to move the pick, and those offers just don't come, despite the fantasy fans have. Burke is saying he wouldn't move #3 and #5 for 1OA. I've got news for you, Burkie, it most likely will take a lot more than that for Gorton to move the pick.

I think you see how divisive the issue is. Someone asked why these keeps coming up, and this is an example - because it’s juicy and people have different takes.

You have some who strongly believe 3+5 is an overpayment and that you’re better off getting two top prospect. And you have others for whom 3+5 isn’t nearly enough.

But whenever one stands on the issue, one thing is for sure - you’re talking about it. You’re talking about the NHL, you’re talking about a NY team, you’re talking about the team in Canada’s capital, and you’re talking about future NHL stars.

That is exactly what the league wants and hopes for.

 

[Thirty One]

Depending on who is out there, they could move up as well.

Personally, depending on how the picks come, I’m cool with them sliding down a few spots and adding a second rounder.

I'm very on board with trading down in the first. Don't think I've seen the Rangers do that in my lifetime, though.

 

[Edge]

There are fans everywhere who expect way too much from a late 1st round pick. They look at Boeser and Pastrnak and expect every guy in the 20-range to be that top line player but Brady Skjei for instance was a good selection at 28. Ranger fans give him a lot of shit and he has his gaffes but for where we drafted him, we got some GREAT VALUE out of it.

Fans will always want their teams to have a ton of stars and the beet players possible.

But when you start getting into the late first and early second rounds, you really are a drop toward prospects who fill more support roles. Now, don’t get me wrong, you do have stars in the mix and everyone wants those guys. But for the most part, the hope for stardom in that range typically over-exceeds the amount of potential stars that really exist.

The Canes pick, is going to get the Rangers an intriguing prospect. It’ll either be someone who has a clear path to the NHL, but isn’t like to be a star, or it’ll be a big swing that comes with more risk.

But either way, the pick is likely to stir quite a bit of debate on here because it’s probably going to mean some people aren’t thrilled.

 

[Joey Bones]

any Tom Wilson types in the late 1st round of the draft. rivalry or not players like Wilson are still important. with our skill, they need a someone who has skill along with toughness to protect each other.

Honestly, the closest I've seen in Wilson is Holloway. For some reason Holloway gets bashed on quite a bit in this thread.

I don't see any issue with him as NYR's 2nd pick. He's a pest, big, fast and has the potential to become a threatening power forward in the top-6. At worst, he plays a fast, grind style bottom-6 role.

 

[Joey Bones]

One kid who I am higher on than most is Vasiliy Ponomaryov. He has had trouble getting the counting stats to match his skill and effort level, but I feel like he is poised to take a huge step forward next season. If the Canes go the distance and our second pick is around the 30 mark - I'd roll the dice on his talent and defensive commitment.

Ponomarev reminds me of Namestnikov so much. It's scary, but he'll be consistent if he develops.

 

[Edge]

I'm very on board with trading down in the first. Don't think I've seen the Rangers do that in my lifetime, though.

I believe they’ve done it in the second in my lifetime, maybe a few later rounds. I don’t think they’ve ever done it in the first. At least not that I can recall off the top of my head.

But, then again, they’ve never had as many picks as they’ve had the last four drafts, and Lefreniere would mark the first time they’ve taken someone from the Q in 43 years. He’s also their first number one pick on 55 years.

So this draft has some good odds to be different than what the Rangers have typically done, for many different reasons.

If I had to guess, I’d say they either take their guy and call it a round, or they move up a few spots if there’s someone they really like.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Honestly, the closest I've seen in Wilson is Holloway. For some reason Holloway gets bashed on quite a bit in this thread.

I don't see any issue with him as NYR's 2nd pick. He's a pest, big, fast and has the potential to become a threatening power forward in the top-6. At worst, he plays a fast, grind style bottom-6 role.

Most of it is coming from one person (me.)

If we're looking for abrasive forwards with that pick, Greig>>>>>>>>Holloway.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Depending on who is out there, they could move up as well.

Personally, depending on how the picks come, I’m cool with them sliding down a few spots and adding a second rounder.

Get me my boy Cuylle!

 

[NYR Viper]

Most of it is coming from one person (me.)

If we're looking for abrasive forwards with that pick, Greig>>>>>>>>Holloway.

At 5'11 do you think Greig can hold up over time?

 

[Edge]

Get me my boy Cuylle!

I mean if sliding down from 22 to 26 means they get a player in the same tier, plus Cuylle or Reid in the second round, and some of the other names we discussed in the third, I’m very open to it.

That would be a hell of a top 100.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

At 5'11 do you think Greig can hold up over time?

No clue. I think he holds up long enough though.

 

[Edge]

At 5'11 do you think Greig can hold up over time?

Yes, I think he’s got the build for it. I also don’t find him to be reckless.

I don’t think he’s quite as dynamic as Holloway, but he’s also a kid with good value at a potentially more realistic draft slot.

 

[NYRangers0723]

And for the record, he wouldn’t have been my choice. I was willing to roll the dice on Vilardi

.

I was hoping for Glass. After The first 5 picks i honestly thought we were gonna get him and Vegas screwed us lol. I didn’t hate the Andersson pick at the time. I felt it was a bit of a reach since he was mocked I think 13-15 in that range. Granted it was not a strong draft but he seemed like a safe pick who could develop maybe similar to Stepan. I do blame Gordie Clark a lot because he was praising his mental toughness, confidence, team play, and drive and as we know now those things were lacking

 

[Joey Bones]

Depending on who is out there, they could move up as well.

Personally, depending on how the picks come, I’m cool with them sliding down a few spots and adding a second rounder.

Yeah, I mentioned that. Think if someone that they love, ala Lundell, Mercer or Jarvis, start falling to the No. 15 range I think they would be on the phones.