Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[NjDevsRR]

If they win their gms in hand, Jackets are

2 pts back of NJ
4 pts back of TBL and CAR
6 pts back of TOR
7 pts back of FLA

They caught everyone sans Caps.

So credit to them. I don’t want to hear tHe CoLuMbUs BlUeJaCKeTs as some sort of knock. Credit to them. They have had something like a .680 pts % rate since late November. They were 15th in the East in mid November, they are now 7th if they win their gm in hand.


With that said, NJ needs to ramp it back up to a .625 pts % pace to end the season. The lousy post Christmas play lost them their buffer they had in the Metro (so did Canes), it’s sink or swim time. Also, I need two forwards. I must have posted that two dozen times since November. I am hoping some new faces on offense can spark a good stretch to close out the season. It’s all on Fitz now.

Here is the very fine like these Final 22 gms have in store:

.625 pts % gives them 100 pts



.480 pts % gives them 91 pts and possibly out

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Bastian, Lazar, Haula, Palat, Tatar - all these guys are gone soon or already losing ice time next season. There's a big blank slate there, the ceiling is not in jeopardy at all.

I think what's happened last year and probably this year is that he does not want to make a bad deal and the sellers like Buffalo and Montreal are trying to save face and extract more than picks for players that don't deserve that return.

But the issue is that he made those moves to gut the team's depth and now he has to go out and fix it in a garbage market. If he didn't get handsy with this roster, the chances are this team would've been fine right now and would be cruising along with Washington in the Metro side of the playoffs. The defense, he deserves full marks in fixing. I won't deny that, whoever the next GM, is if Fitz is fired, will inherit an embarrassment of riches on the backend.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Well, yeah, it's been noted that Fitz blows at drafting forwards/up front and is good at drafting dmen while Shero was the complete opposite. The identity thing is mostly typical hockey lifer thinking where a young team gets punched in the mouth in the playoffs by a bigger/physical roster and the idea is to change it up completely instead of looking at the underlying issues that plagued them. All they needed to do is add a few blue liners with puck moving ability + goaltender and they were probably set for the next decade plus. There was next to no need to change anything up front besides fans who glorify toughness

It's perfectly fair to fire the guy if we can't win a round since it would be his fault we cant. He's been a shit GM. One good year then he ruins what made the team good for size and grit that all sucks. He made us way slower each of the last two seasons. He took away offense as well. So while the goaltending is fine, this team can't score worth a shit.

His drafting also sucks. Nemec is a horrible pick considering what was available that would've given us more offensive depth. Silayev over Dickinson and Buiuv is horrible as well. Holtz sucked, Shakir over what was on the board sucked, Stilman in the first round sucks.

His contracts suck as well. Palat, Dillon, Haula, MacDermid.

There’s nothing wrong with size and grit - it absolutely is a necessary part of a cup formula. But so is speed and transition. You need both - the problem isn’t that he added size and grit, it’s that he did it at the expense of the other things we need. I mean look at a guy like Zetterlund. Young, fast, and big. Not a top six superstar by any stretch, but basically checks all the boxes of what you want in the bottom six. He needed to find a way to make that trade without giving away a piece of the puzzle. And if he couldn’t, then maybe he should not have pulled the trigger. This is where having a vision of what you want your team to look like is important and it’s not always about simply getting the better player just because you can. Maybe if we kept Zetterlund he could have used Timo’s money to get a couple of guys who would be a better fit for the top six now, and we’d have better depth with big but still speedy guys in the bottom six.

Sidebar Disclaimer: I’m not saying Zetterlund is a better player than Timo. I’m sure someone is going to claim that’s what I’m saying anyway.

There’s also the issue of the guys he got that are supposed to be bigger and more physical are only marginally better at that while being much worse at everything else including offensive production.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

There’s nothing wrong with size and grit - it absolutely is a necessary part of a cup formula. But so is speed and transition. You need both - the problem isn’t that he added size and grit, it’s that he did it at the expense of the other things we need. I mean look at a guy like Zetterlund. Young, fast, and big. Not a top six superstar by any stretch, but basically checks all the boxes of what you want in the bottom six. He needed to find a way to make that trade without giving away a piece of the puzzle. And if he couldn’t, then maybe he should not have pulled the trigger. This is where having a vision of what you want your team to look like is important and it’s not always about simply getting the better player just because you can. Maybe if we kept Zetterlund he could have used Timo’s money to get a couple of guys who would be a better fit for the top six now.

Disclaimer: I’m not saying Zetterlund is a better player than Timo. I’m sure someone is going to claim that’s what I’m saying anyway.

Except Fitz drank the kool-aid and got those type of guys by any means necessary after Carolina, guys that were mediocre bums elsewhere but since they ticked that box he signed them for the bottom 6. Curtis Lazar went from playoff scratch to a regular last year/this year pre injury. Guys like Bastian/MacDermid making around 2M when you could adequate depth pieces in UFA for a single player for that price. And correct, trading Zetterlund was a mistake because he's the exact piece that this team has been looking for in the bottom 6 but it's one of his lesser mistakes because he still added someone of value in Timo Meier. Fitz's bigger mistakes is when he goes into UFA or traded for bozos like MacDermid who add no value to this team. Fitz's obsession with Blake Coleman also led him to over drafting Chase Stillman, the guy is a complete dunce on the forward side of the puck and I don't see how anyone has legit faith in him turning that side of the puck around.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Except Fitz drank the kool-aid and got those type of guys by any means necessary after Carolina, guys that were mediocre bums elsewhere but since they ticked that box he signed them for the bottom 6. Curtis Lazar went from playoff scratch to a regular last year/this year pre injury. Guys like Bastian/MacDermid making around 2M when you could adequate depth pieces in UFA for a single player for that price. And correct, trading Zetterlund was a mistake because he's the exact piece that this team has been looking for in the bottom 6 but it's one of his lesser mistakes because he still added someone of value in Timo Meier. Fitz's bigger mistakes is when he goes into UFA or traded for bozos like MacDermid who add no value to this team. Fitz's obsession with Blake Coleman also led him to over drafting Chase Stillman, the guy is a complete dunce on the forward side of the puck and I don't see how anyone has legit faith in him turning that side of the puck around.

Blake Coleman is another example. Would be the exact type of player we need right now. He trades him away befause we won’t be signing him because we don’t want to give big contracts to a player like that…only to turn around and pay similar amount to an older, worse version in Palat. What was the point of trading him? Where’s the vision in that kind of move? I don’t see it.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I also contend that Fitz f***ed up the team chemistry by replacing too many young homegrown players with older FA signings.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Blake Coleman is another example. Would be the exact type of player we need right now. He trades him away befause we won’t be signing him because we don’t want to give big contracts to a player like that…only to turn around and pay similar amount to an older, worse version in Palat. What was the point of trading him? Where’s the vision in that kind of move? I don’t see it.

Trading Coleman was fine, it shouldn't be hard to find guys like Zetterlund and Coleman around the league. They're very good players imo but they're also bottom 6ers on decent teams, it shouldn't take a GM 4-5 years to find an adequate bottom 6. Palat was always a knee jerk reaction to losing Gaudreau to Columbus. It's a shame that we're in the same division as CBJ because my first move would've been getting Bjorkstrand out of CBJ as soon as Gaudreau signed but they shipped him off to Seattle. There's plenty of moves Fitz could've made to round out this team's bottom 6. He arguably didn't need to do much but the way he handled it is one of the most catastrophic things as a Devils GM has done and I don't see how they come back from it.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I don't see how they come back from it.

But you answered it in the same post my brotha. Its on him to right the wrong

it shouldn't be hard to find guys like Zetterlund and Coleman around the league.

There's plenty of moves Fitz could've made to round out this team's bottom 6.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

But you answered it in the same post my brotha. Its on him to right the wrong

And I've said I don't think Fitz can do it in multiple posts....lmao

 

[NjDevsRR]

And I've said I don't think Fitz can do it in multiple posts....lmao

We shall see next week, and if not, we shall see in the offseason if he/next GM can correct it

 

[guitarguyvic]

Trading Coleman was fine, it shouldn't be hard to find guys like Zetterlund and Coleman around the league. They're very good players imo but they're also bottom 6ers on decent teams, it shouldn't take a GM 4-5 years to find an adequate bottom 6. Palat was always a knee jerk reaction to losing Gaudreau to Columbus. It's a shame that we're in the same division as CBJ because my first move would've been getting Bjorkstrand out of CBJ as soon as Gaudreau signed but they shipped him off to Seattle. There's plenty of moves Fitz could've made to round out this team's bottom 6. He arguably didn't need to do much but the way he handled it is one of the most catastrophic things as a Devils GM has done and I don't see how they come back from it.

See my post above about chemistry. I think if you have young homegrown guys who already check the boxes, you might as well keep them if they already had proven chemistry on the team, which guys like Blake and Zetterlund did.

Yeah sure you can say the reasoning for trading Blake was fine, but not really if a year later you’re contradicting that philosophy with FA signings - for guys who are worse versions of the homegrown guy you let go. Makes no sense to me.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

We shall see next week, and if not, we shall see in the offseason if he/next GM can correct it

Him doing it next week or in the off-season is still a bad look considering he's the GM who caused this overreaction in roster in the first place. He doesn't deserve credit for fixing something he made a mess of.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Him doing it next week or in the off-season is still a bad look considering he's the GM who caused this overreaction in roster in the first place. He doesn't deserve credit for fixing something he made a mess of.

I dont care about credit. I just want it done and am hoping we are in for a nice surprise next week. They need a shot in the arm badly

 

[Lou Bloom]

The Fitz hate is way overboard. I think the forward depth needs reworking but he's completely overhauled the defense and turned it into a short and long term strength adding Hamilton, Pesce, Siegenthaler, Marino (who he flipped for two 2nds after trading Ty Smith and a 3rd for), Graves, Kovacevic, Dillon, Nemec, Casey and Silayev all in a relatively short timespan in. He's stabalized the goaltending with Markstrom and Allen and Yegorov while far from a sure thing is looking like a very good goalie prospect.

And even with his missteps at forward the Devils still have a strong core in place with Jack, Nico, Bratt and Meier and some decent complimentary pieces in Noesen and Cotter with Gritsyuk and Lenni looking like interesting complimentary pieces in the near future. Not to mention this team is currently well within a playoff spot and on track for their 2nd appearance in 3 years.

If he makes the right moves at the trade deadline and in the coming offseason this team can be one of the best teams in the NHL moving forward, He should be given until 2026 before we even start having discussions about moving on from him.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

See my post above about chemistry. I think if you have young homegrown guys who already check the boxes, you might as well keep them if they already had proven chemistry on the team, which guys like Blake and Zetterlund did.

Yeah sure you can say the reasoning for trading Blake was fine, but not really if a year later you’re contradicting that philosophy with FA signings - for guys who are worse versions of the homegrown guy you let go. Makes no sense to me.

Coleman was fine, it took the Devils 3 years to get back to the dance after trading him. He was never going to be a part of this team's core of winning a Cup due to timeline. There were a ton of guys on that 17-18 team that would do wonders for us right now. Brian Boyle from that year would be nice, Coleman, etc. That stuff happens in sports, hard to get on Fitz for that imo.

I dont care about credit. I just want it done and am hoping we are in for a nice surprise next week. They need a shot in the arm badly

Lol Jake Evans or whatever he's been linked to is not a "nice surprise"

 

[NjDevsRR]

Lol Jake Evans or whatever he's been linked to is not a "nice surprise"

You are talking in circles here in oder to vent. A “nice surprise” that I am hoping for of course wouldn’t be a Jake Evans. Because…

1.) Hes been rumored so it literally won’t be a surprise.

2.) A surprise in my terms is acquiring a nice player that would help.

Lets just let the cards fall into place first before we complain about the deadline results.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

The Fitz hate is way overboard. I think the forward depth needs reworking but he's completely overhauled the defense and turned it into a short and long term strength adding Hamilton, Pesce, Siegenthaler, Marino (who he flipped for two 2nds after trading Ty Smith and a 3rd for), Graves, Kovacevic, Dillon, Nemec, Casey and Silayev all in a relatively short timespan in. He's stabalized the goaltending with Markstrom and Allen and Yegorov while far from a sure thing is looking like a very good goalie prospect.

And even with his missteps at forward the Devils still have a strong core in place with Jack, Nico, Bratt and Meier and some decent complimentary pieces in Noesen and Cotter with Gritsyuk and Lenni looking like interesting complimentary pieces in the near future. Not to mention this team is currently well within a playoff spot and on track for their 2nd appearance in 3 years.

If he makes the right moves at the trade deadline and in the coming offseason this team can be one of the best teams in the NHL moving forward, He should be given until 2026 before we even start having discussions about moving on from him.

No one said anything about the defense, he's been all world on the backend. He's been putrid ass up front and deserves a ton of blame for this current state of the roster. Cotter? The guy has been MIA for most of the year after his hot start, lmao, but sure I guess.

You are talking in circles here in oder to vent. A “nice surprise” that I am hoping for of course wouldn’t be a Jake Evans. Because…

1.) Hes been rumored so it literally won’t be a surprise.

2.) A surprise in my terms is acquiring a nice player that would help.

Lets just let the cards fall into place first

I have no interest in burning assets on this team this year on a "nice surprise". Whatever tf that even means lol

 

[Lou Bloom]

I also contend that Fitz f***ed up the team chemistry by replacing too many young homegrown players with older FA signings.

I think that's a bit silly. Vegas has made a major shakeup trade every year since they came into the league and they have been consistent contenders and won a cup. Florida acquired majority of their top players (Tkachuk, Reinhart, Verhaeghe, Bennett, Forsling, Montour, Rodrigues, Bobrovsky, Ekman-Larsson) externally and are coming off a Stanley Cup.

The problem with the forward group is an inability to find quality talent for cheap (whether through development or external acquisition), If he was acquiring Players like Florida has with Bennett, Verhaeghe and Rodrigues for cheap then the forward group wouldn't be where it is today even if they were replacing homegrown players.

 

[guitarguyvic]

No one said anything about the defense, he's been all world on the backend. He's been putrid ass up front and deserves a ton of blame for this current state of the roster. Cotter? The guy has been MIA for most of the year after his hot start, lmao, but sure I guess.



I have no interest in burning assets on this team this year on a "nice surprise". Whatever tf that even means lol

I’m not sure I would call what he did with the D “all world”. It’s definitely better than last year, but he’s done a similar thing there that he did with the forwards. The guys we have now are slower and worse in transition than from two years ago.

We’re spinning our wheels because he’s basically played a game of whackamole with roster defiencies.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I think that's a bit silly. Vegas has made a major shakeup trade every year since they came into the league and they have been consistent contenders and won a cup. Florida acquired majority of their top players (Tkachuk, Reinhart, Verhaeghe, Bennett, Forsling, Montour, Rodrigues, Bobrovsky, Ekman-Larsson) externally and are coming off a Stanley Cup.

The problem with the forward group is an inability to find quality talent for cheap (whether through development or external acquisition), If he was acquiring Players like Florida has with Bennett, Verhaeghe and Rodrigues for cheap then the forward group wouldn't be where it is today even if they were replacing homegrown players.

Florida is also an unfair example somewhat because they can sign guys at a cheaper rate than a team like NJ can also. But Zito has also made moves like Forsling and Mikkola who have been stalwarts since they got to South Florida. There hasn't really be a player in NJ that has come and revived his career around this core. You need that in today's salary cap. Regardless, Fitz needs to be smarter with this team's depth offensively. There was no reason for him and management to go off the deep end post Carolina series.

I’m not sure I would call what he did with the D “all world”. It’s definitely better than last year, but he’s done a similar thing there that he did with the forwards. The guys we have now are slower and worse in transition than from two years ago.

We’re spinning our wheels because he’s basically played a game of whackamole with roster defiencies.

Nah, the defense is definitely miles and all world better than what it was with Shero. We had guys like Mirco Mueller playing top 4, John Moore was playing top 4, etc. It was pretty f***ing bleak at times under Shero on the backend. Yeah, I mean, Dillon is ass but that was an overreaction to Bahl's season last year and Pesce was thought of as Luke's Makar version of Devon Toews. The backend is still miles better with a few hiccups here and there by Fitz.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I think that's a bit silly. Vegas has made a major shakeup trade every year since they came into the league and they have been consistent contenders and won a cup. Florida acquired majority of their top players (Tkachuk, Reinhart, Verhaeghe, Bennett, Forsling, Montour, Rodrigues, Bobrovsky, Ekman-Larsson) externally and are coming off a Stanley Cup.

The problem with the forward group is an inability to find quality talent for cheap (whether through development or external acquisition), If he was acquiring Players like Florida has with Bennett, Verhaeghe and Rodrigues for cheap then the forward group wouldn't be where it is today even if they were replacing homegrown players.

I mean I get it, Vegas has pulled it off but they are the exception. I mean I don’t think I even disagree with you. My point is that if the alternative is handing out expensive shit contracts to older, worse versions of the homegrown guys you let go, I think I’d rather just keep those homegrown guys. Lol

Nah, the defense is definitely miles and all world better than what it was with Shero. We had guys like Mirco Mueller playing top 4, John Moore was playing top 4, etc. It was pretty f***ing bleak at times under Shero on the backend.

I said I think it’s better overall. But he did it again at the expense of speed and transition. I don’t think this is a contending D core at the moment because the balance is still off.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I mean I get it, Vegas has pulled it off but they are the exception. I mean I don’t think I even disagree with you. My point is that if the alternative is handing out expensive shit contracts to older, worse versions of the homegrown guys you let go, I think I’d rather just keep those homegrown guys. Lol


I said I think it’s better overall. But he did it again at the expense of speed and transition. I don’t think this is a contending D core at the moment because the balance is still off.

I edited above to the point you mentioned about at the expense of speed and transition. Dillon is also a place holder to Silayev too. It is what it is.

 

[Lou Bloom]

No one said anything about the defense, he's been all world on the backend. He's been putrid ass up front and deserves a ton of blame for this current state of the roster. Cotter? The guy has been MIA for most of the year after his hot start, lmao, but sure I guess.

People are talking about firing him, do you not think the totality of the roster is worth discussing in that scenario?

The forward group needs re-working, no one is arguing that, but the forward group is very easily fixable because the core is in place and locked up to great contracts apart from Meier.

Fitz has made some bad decisions (Palat contract, Poor forward drafting under his regime, re-signing Haula, etc...) but we're talking about a roster that is set as far as the star forwards, defense and goaltending is concerned and only needs to address the forward depth. He was able to re-solidify the defense and goaltending this past offseason, the fact that he still needs to address the forward depth is a fair criticism but not something that's worth losing your collective mind over like many of the posters on here are doing.

And as for Cotter he'd be a good 4th line checking winger on a team that he's not forced to play higher in the lineup on due to a lack of forward options. He's clearly a solid player for his salary, age and contract status.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

People are talking about firing him, do you not think the totality of the roster is worth discussing in that scenario?

The forward group needs re-working, no one is arguing that, but the forward group is very easily fixable because the core is in place and locked up to great contracts apart from Meier.

Fitz has made some bad decisions (Palat contract, Poor forward drafting under his regime, re-signing Haula, etc...) but we're talking about a roster that is set as far as the star forwards, defense and goaltending is concerned and only needs to address the forward depth. He was able to re-solidify the defense and goaltending this past offseason, the fact that he still needs to address the forward depth is a fair criticism but not something that's worth losing your collective mind over like many of the posters on here are doing.

And as for Cotter he'd be a good 4th line checking winger on a team that he's not forced to play higher in the lineup on due to a lack of forward options. He's clearly a solid player for his salary, age and contract status.

A forward group that had no reason to being tweaked as hard as he did post 2023? Yes, he deserves absurd amounts of blame for that. And now he has to go back in the trade market or UFA to fix it again when there was no need besides figuring out what to do with the 4C post McLeod Team Canada thing. And the poor drafting plays into ELC's not being readily available up front so he had even more reason to dip into UFA for plugs/grinders. Stillman over Stankoven is one example I thought of within 2 mins of this post, I'm sure there's others in various drafts under his regime that have been equally bad.

 

[guitarguyvic]

People are talking about firing him, do you not think the totality of the roster is worth discussing in that scenario?

The forward group needs re-working, no one is arguing that, but the forward group is very easily fixable because the core is in place and locked up to great contracts apart from Meier.

Fitz has made some bad decisions (Palat contract, Poor forward drafting under his regime, re-signing Haula, etc...) but we're talking about a roster that is set as far as the star forwards, defense and goaltending is concerned and only needs to address the forward depth. He was able to re-solidify the defense and goaltending this past offseason, the fact that he still needs to address the forward depth is a fair criticism but not something that's worth losing your collective mind over like many of the posters on here are doing.

And as for Cotter he'd be a good 4th line checking winger on a team that he's not forced to play higher in the lineup on due to a lack of forward options. He's clearly a solid player for his salary, age and contract status.

The bottom line is that this team is not that well constructed. Most of our forwards have little to no chemistry with each other, Bratt and Jack notwithstanding. You see this in their lack of clean passes regularly. We have zero snipers on the team, you see evidence of this regularly as well with their shot selection and wild fluctuations with finishing. The guys we have who have some snarl or grit pretty much suck at everything else. We are generally no longer a fast team. The defense is pretty good in their own end but there’s only one and a half guys who can transition well and contribute offensively regularly. The goaltending has been fine but it’s certainly not solved long term and could go off the deep end at any moment given their ages.

It’s not clear to me what kind of team Fitz is trying to build. It’s a less severe strain of Shero syndrome.