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2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part IV

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bobbop said:
While I can take or leave most of this post, this observation is very important. The place you get quality forwards is the top half of the draft. You either draft and develop offense or you trade or sign it at a high price. You can get a Norris Trophy defenseman in the second or third round.
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This x 1000.

In the first, unless there's a clear BPA, go with forwards. Never go with goalies, rarely go with defensemen.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
If Lundell is a "boring" forward, then so is Couturier. Every year we see people (just to be clear, not you, Roo) refer to 2-way forwards as "low ceiling/low upside" prospects. As if being good defensively makes you automatically bad offensively.

Lundell is a better prospect in his draft year than Sebastian Aho, both offensively and defensively. The only downside, which saw him drop in rankings, was an injury in Late Nov/early Dec that made him miss the WJC

Since 2000:
2nd highest in his D-1 year in P/GP in Liiga (tied with Barkov)
6th highest in his D-year in P/GP in Liiga (trailing Granlund, Barkov, Kakko, Laine, and Lehkonen)
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He also had the second highest corsi in Liiga this year (sample size larger than 6 games) at 61.9%
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
If Lundell is a "boring" forward, then so is Couturier. Every year we see people (just to be clear, not you, Roo) refer to 2-way forwards as "low ceiling/low upside" prospects. As if being good defensively makes you automatically bad offensively.

Lundell is a better prospect in his draft year than Sebastian Aho, both offensively and defensively. The only downside, which saw him drop in rankings, was an injury in Late Nov/early Dec that made him miss the WJC

Since 2000:
2nd highest in his D-1 year in P/GP in Liiga (tied with Barkov)
6th highest in his D-year in P/GP in Liiga (trailing Granlund, Barkov, Kakko, Laine, and Lehkonen)
Click to expand...


I've read a lot about him. I see no reason not to take him. None. He's been my guy since I got back to the US from the wedding/work trip I did days before shutdown.

I think the two way thing is because all we heard about from Clark during the first half of the 2010s was two way this and two way that and all those guys topped out as middle sixers.

It's become the newest syndrome/PTSD with Rangers fans adding to 1. Every time they trade a young guy he will become some combo of Middleton/Ridley/Gagner/Zubov 2. Every draft pick who doesn't win the Calder is a DNA splice of Jessiman/McLIrath 3. Everyone over the age of 26 is old and not allowed to play for the Rangers because some other fanbase is going to bring up 1998-2004 and hurt our feelings 4. Every draft pick has to be a ready made HOFer who thinks nothing but offense or else they are terrible human beings who will hurt us.
 
I have Rossi ranked ahead of Lundell

Quinn falls into the category of guys like Zary, where they're fine prospects but man would I object to taking them at 10/11

Irishguy42 said:
Just a reminder that, unless we get 1OA, this is either going to be a 9-player draft or a 10-player draft.
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No doubt, always seems to be the way with this team
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
If Lundell is a "boring" forward, then so is Couturier. Every year we see people (just to be clear, not you, Roo) refer to 2-way forwards as "low ceiling/low upside" prospects. As if being good defensively makes you automatically bad offensively.

Lundell is a better prospect in his draft year than Sebastian Aho, both offensively and defensively. The only downside, which saw him drop in rankings, was an injury in Late Nov/early Dec that made him miss the WJC

Since 2000:
2nd highest in his D-1 year in P/GP in Liiga (tied with Barkov)
6th highest in his D-year in P/GP in Liiga (trailing Granlund, Barkov, Kakko, Laine, and Lehkonen)
Click to expand...

He isn't as strong either offensively or defensively as Couturier was as a prospect. Yes I know, Q numbers blah blah blah, but he was slated to go #1 OA before mono hit him like a truck and prospect fatigue worked against him (tbf, I think this is happening with Lundell as well, to a lesser extent.)

Who has called him low ceiling though? I don't agree with that but I do agree that of the "top" guys, he has the "lowest" ceiling. That doesn't make him a bad prospect, but there will be better ones available when the Rangers pick.

If you think hes good defensively, you should love Rossi, who stood out on both ends of the ice in the structureless CHL!
 
Roo Returns said:
I've read a lot about him. I see no reason not to take him. None. He's been my guy since I got back to the US from the wedding/work trip I did days before shutdown.

I think the two way thing is because all we heard about from Clark during the first half of the 2010s was two way this and two way that and all those guys topped out as middle sixers.

It's become the newest syndrome/PTSD with Rangers fans adding to 1. Every time they trade a young guy he will become some combo of Middleton/Ridley/Gagner/Zubov 2. Every draft pick who doesn't win the Calder is a DNA splice of Jessiman/McLIrath 3. Everyone over the age of 26 is old and not allowed to play for the Rangers because some other fanbase is going to bring up 1998-2004 and hurt our feelings 4. Every draft pick has to be a ready made HOFer who thinks nothing but offense or else they are terrible human beings who will hurt us.
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If there are better players available, they have every reason NOT to take him. This isn't exclusive to Lundell, but to any player.

What you're suggesting is the very definition of overthinking things which is what leads to mistakes. Drafting for need/fit is what led to McIlrath and this isn't the NFL here you take a guy and plug him in instantly (unless you're picking really high.)

Take the top guy, thats it. Winger? Take him. Center? Take him. D? Take him. Goalie? Okay, don't take him, but you get my point. If you're picking and you have 2 players neck and neck and the positional/fit need is greater in one area over another, fine. Other than that, if your reasoning for taking someone is that he fills a need and can give Chytil (who already has 3 years of development time on anyone taken this year) more time to do his thing, then we're in trouble.
 
GoAwayStaal said:
If there are better players available, they have every reason NOT to take him. This isn't exclusive to Lundell, but to any player.

What you're suggesting is the very definition of overthinking things which is what leads to mistakes. Drafting for need/fit is what led to McIlrath and this isn't the NFL here you take a guy and plug him in instantly (unless you're picking really high.)

Take the top guy, thats it. Winger? Take him. Center? Take him. D? Take him. Goalie? Okay, don't take him, but you get my point. If you're picking and you have 2 players neck and neck and the positional/fit need is greater in one area over another, fine. Other than that, if your reasoning for taking someone is that he fills a need and can give Chytil (who already has 3 years of development time on anyone taken this year) more time to do his thing, then we're in trouble.
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Chytil really shouldn't have been in the NHL until now if this were the old days. This is all free experiencing for him. His "problem" is he's too nice a guy. I want to see him take control and be more of a $#^# on the ice but that may come with age.

But who is the better player than Lundell? Let me know who. Who do you take and why? I'm down to take a better player but who are they. Lundell seems pretty good to me.
 
Roo Returns said:
Chytil really shouldn't have been in the NHL until now if this were the old days. This is all free experiencing for him. His "problem" is he's too nice a guy. I want to see him take control and be more of a $#^# on the ice but that may come with age.

But who is the better player than Lundell? Let me know who. Who do you take and why? I'm down to take a better player but who are they. Lundell seems pretty good to me.
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You can read through the last page and get my thoughts on that. Not being snarky, but its covered there.

He is pretty good, but even if the top guys are gone and no one falls, I'd take Jarvis/Quinn/Reichel over him. All three have top line upside IMO and the work ethic to go along with it. Lundell has the work ethic, but I don't see the same ceiling for him. I don't hate the player, I like him quite a bit but with where we are picking (and the likelyhood that someone drops) I don't foresee a situation where he is the best player available.

I can see an argument for him over Jarvis and Reichel, I don't see one for Quinn, at least not a good one.
 
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GoAwayStaal said:
You can read through the last page and get my thoughts on that. Not being snarky, but its covered there.

He is pretty good, but even if the top guys are gone and no one falls, I'd take Jarvis/Quinn/Reichel over him. All three have top line upside IMO and the work ethic to go along with it. Lundell has the work ethic, but I don't see the same ceiling for him. I don't hate the player, I like him quite a bit but with where we are picking (and the likelyhood that someone drops) I don't foresee a situation where he is the best player available.

I can see an argument for him over Jarvis and Reichel, I don't see one for Quinn, at least not a good one.
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Will do! I had no power the last 3.5 days so still catching up on my HF.
 
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If we do draft lundell We aren’t gonna rush him over and ruin him right?
 
I just want a forward in round 1 with our 1st pick. Drafting defense early does nothing for us. This team needs to get deeper at forward.
 
bl02 said:
If we do draft lundell We aren’t gonna rush him over and ruin him right?
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With the COVID situation, He probably stays in Finland next year regardless.

May be the best thing for him as expectations are going to be through the roof for him as they were for Lias based on who they passed on. This fanbase is going to explode if they select him over one of the super Swedes or Rossi (and honestly, they should lol.)
 
GoAwayStaal said:
With the COVID situation, He probably stays in Finland next year regardless.

May be the best thing for him as expectations are going to be through the roof for him as they were for Lias based on who they passed on. This fanbase is going to explode if they select him over one of the super Swedes or Rossi (and honestly, they should lol.)
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Is Rossi supposed to be a good player? I hear a lot about him but he looks really small. Nothing against smaller guys but don't we want some size at center? Again, i have no idea what he projects to be so if someone has any info, i'd appreciate it.
 
GoAwayStaal said:
With the COVID situation, He probably stays in Finland next year regardless.

May be the best thing for him as expectations are going to be through the roof for him as they were for Lias based on who they passed on. This fanbase is going to explode if they select him over one of the super Swedes or Rossi (and honestly, they should lol.)
Click to expand...
Yeah he’s not even close to Raymond for me but Raymond is not getting past 5/6. Holtz has a chance to slip a bit. And Rossi possibly as well.
Good to hear he will stay in Finland another year. I honestly don’t want 18/19 year olds here getting limited minutes especially if they can stay in Europe where they are more comfortable for now.
 
bl02 said:
Yeah he’s not even close to Raymond for me but Raymond is not getting past 5/6. Holtz has a chance to slip a bit. And Rossi possibly as well.
Good to hear he will stay in Finland another year. I honestly don’t want 18/19 year olds here getting limited minutes especially if they can stay in Europe where they are more comfortable for now.
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I think it's more likely that Raymond drops out of the top 10 than Holtz. There are some red flags that may cast doubt surrounding Raymond, and this was mentioned in an article by, I think Craig Button
 
Rangers394 said:
Is Rossi supposed to be a good player? I hear a lot about him but he looks really small. Nothing against smaller guys but don't we want some size at center? Again, i have no idea what he projects to be so if someone has any info, i'd appreciate it.
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Yes.

Small but built like a tank with exceptional hands, playmaking ability and loads of hockey sense. If all goes well he's a 2 way all star center. The OHL wasn't a great league last year, but he still led the league in scoring and was playing at a 140 point pace. Yes his team was loaded and the favorite to win the memorial cup, but again he was the leading scorer on that team.
 
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GoAwayStaal said:
Yes.

Small but built like a tank with exceptional hands, playmaking ability and loads of hockey sense. If all goes well he's a 2 way all star center. The OHL wasn't a great league last year, but he still led the league in scoring and was playing at a 140 point pace. Yes his team was loaded and the favorite to win the memorial cup, but again he was the leading scorer on that team.
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Sounds good to me. I see he's 18 so maybe he grows a few more inches which should make him that much harder to play against. Sounds like the type of player we need.
 
bl02 said:
Yeah he’s not even close to Raymond for me but Raymond is not getting past 5/6. Holtz has a chance to slip a bit. And Rossi possibly as well.
Good to hear he will stay in Finland another year. I honestly don’t want 18/19 year olds here getting limited minutes especially if they can stay in Europe where they are more comfortable for now.
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Raymond's got attitude issues. He's a kid so I don't hold it against him but it's going to hurt him a bit. He dogged it really, really hard after getting demoted last year.

I still take him at 10/11. He'll grow up and you can't teach that natural ability.
 
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