Matt Rentfree
Registered User
So it's a 9 player draft is what you're telling me
Yeah kind of, but I'm higher on Jarvis than most - doubt the Rangers would take him over Lundell though.
2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part IV
- Thread starter Krams
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
Yeah kind of, but I'm higher on Jarvis than most - doubt the Rangers would take him over Lundell though.
broadwayblue
Registered User
That kid can flat out skate. If he was an inch taller I could see him going top 10.
Matt Rentfree
Registered User
Also, his offensive ceiling isn't as high as some of the guys that are expected to go in the top 10. Personally I think his overall play and drive to win makes up for that. Some don't agree.
EDIT: Also, I'm guessing he'll end up as a wing and not a center which is another thing which could make him slide slightly.
1. He's arguably the best 2 way player in this draft.
2. This is valid.
I'd put the questions marks as.
1. How much more growth in his skating speed is there? Technically he's fine, but that straight line explosiveness isn't there. He's pretty maxed out physically, so there isn't a ton of room for growth left there. If he can't create separation, it will limit his effectiveness in transition (well, everywhere, but controlled entries are important.)
2. How much time and space will he need in the NHL to be as effective (as you said.) He's been able to generate a ton of offense in tight areas in the OHL, but thats the OHL. This really ties into #1 because he's been great at creating plays at top speed at his current level but when guys are bigger, stronger, faster, his top speed isn't going to be enough for him to really lead a rush or drive a line. If that doesn't improve, he becomes more of a complementary player/PP wiz. If it does improve, he's a star, because the rest of the tool kit is high end as is the tool box.
broadwayblue
Registered User
I was assuming he was a winger. So yeah, if he was an inch taller and was going to play at C he could certainly sniff the top 10.
We are both on this bus.
He's been my personal favorite in this draft (Along with Quinn, who the more I dig into, the more I'm starting to believe he's a borderline top 5 player in this draft and comfortably in the top 10) but we never end up with the non top guys who I love (Yamamoto, Kaut, Krebs, Rees, etc.)
And wing, Schwing. Take the best players, regardless of where they play. If you key in on a specific position, you're going to make a mistake.
I will be mildly annoyed if both he and Quinn are on the board and they take Lundell lol.
Matt Rentfree
Registered User
As will I, but I'm trying to manage expectations by assuming they'll take Lundell if he's available. Now... if they take Holloway while those two are still on the board I might have to stop supporting the team until Clarke is fired or retires.
As will I, but I'm trying to manage expectations by assuming they'll take Lundell if he's available. Now... if they take Holloway while those two are still on the board I might have to stop supporting the team until Clarke is fired or retires.
Don't even say it!
his speed, skating and acceleration are very good and certainly much better than Lundell. Also his work ethic or least from what I’ve heard from scouts on the radio is that his work ethic on and off The ice is second to none. So just expect his motor and skating to get even better.
I think it’s more his size that’s holding him back from the top 5. I’m ok with taking a center under 5’10”. We have decent size overall as a team
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
See I'm in the complete opposite camp - far more interested in Lundell than Rossi, Quinn, and Jarvis. Putting up gaudy CHL stats through being either close to maxed out physically (Rossi) or through a high end motor (all 3 to varying degrees), or that are late birthdays (Quinn, Rossi) are red flags for me.
Quinn right now is actually who I like the most. Lundell doesn't have super high end upside, no doubt, but he is basically the player everyone thought Lias was. Player who could be Bergeron-lite or Stepan if all goes to plan. Given how thin C is looking in the org and how important of a position it is, give me Lundell.
The trade up dream would be Holtz. Doesn't seem possible but he looks like a gem.
Quinn right now is actually who I like the most. Lundell doesn't have super high end upside, no doubt, but he is basically the player everyone thought Lias was. Player who could be Bergeron-lite or Stepan if all goes to plan. Given how thin C is looking in the org and how important of a position it is, give me Lundell.
The trade up dream would be Holtz. Doesn't seem possible but he looks like a gem.
@HatTrick Swayze Lundell is a late birthday too.
I can't buy the Lundell argument over Rossi or Quinn. Rossi does everything Lundell does well better than Lundell does it outside of maybe Face offs but I have no idea how either of them are in that area. The motor matters and of the 4, I'd put Lundell as the least skilled where as I think they all have that motor, good intentions or what ever people are calling it these days.
Lundell's skating problems are 100% technique related so that can be fixed and theres some room for growth there (more so than there is with Rossi, though I'd say Rossi is easily the better skater right now), but we also need to take into consideration the bigger ice. Kakko was/is a gazillion times better on his edges than Lundell is, and we saw how much he struggled over here. If those technique changes aren't made, how effective will he be over here? Maybe he is still able to power his way through players, but thats a lot to ask of anyone.
His first few steps aren't great and neither is his top gear. If he was a top end skater, everyone would be creaming their pants for the next MSL. His edges and that elusive "shiftiness" are more than fine, but hes going to have a tough time creating separation at the NHL level if he doesn't get quicker. Thats where his body being close to maxed out works against him, as there isn't a ton of room for growth there. There is some, but he pretty much is who he is at this point (physically, he can always get better as a player.)
He does have plus work ethic though. At #10 I'm all over him and laughing my way to the bank.
I can't buy the Lundell argument over Rossi or Quinn. Rossi does everything Lundell does well better than Lundell does it outside of maybe Face offs but I have no idea how either of them are in that area. The motor matters and of the 4, I'd put Lundell as the least skilled where as I think they all have that motor, good intentions or what ever people are calling it these days.
Lundell's skating problems are 100% technique related so that can be fixed and theres some room for growth there (more so than there is with Rossi, though I'd say Rossi is easily the better skater right now), but we also need to take into consideration the bigger ice. Kakko was/is a gazillion times better on his edges than Lundell is, and we saw how much he struggled over here. If those technique changes aren't made, how effective will he be over here? Maybe he is still able to power his way through players, but thats a lot to ask of anyone.
His first few steps aren't great and neither is his top gear. If he was a top end skater, everyone would be creaming their pants for the next MSL. His edges and that elusive "shiftiness" are more than fine, but hes going to have a tough time creating separation at the NHL level if he doesn't get quicker. Thats where his body being close to maxed out works against him, as there isn't a ton of room for growth there. There is some, but he pretty much is who he is at this point (physically, he can always get better as a player.)
He does have plus work ethic though. At #10 I'm all over him and laughing my way to the bank.
HFsNumber1Heel
FKA Roo Returns...Still A Contrarian Apparently
This team has ZERO reason to pick a defenseman with pick #10-11. ZERO. If they do the tv gets thrown out the window. Don't give me this "well he was the best player there" depth nonsense. I don't want to hear the "well the D will look different in 3-4 years" argument either. This team is set on the right side and they used parts 1-3 of the rebuild to acquire enough LHD depth. Lindgren has turned into your exceeding expectations prospect and between K. Miller/Jones/Robertson/Hajek/Reunnenan you have two NHL Dmen who are not as braindead as Brendan Smith or antiquated as Marc Staal.
You don't need a HOFer with this pick just get a forward who will be a solid middle six contributor who has some cajones and can score 50 points, be good on faceoffs if they are a center, add some substance. If its, Lundell, awesome. If it's Quinn, great. If it's Rossi, that's ok too.
Outside of Morgan Barron and Vitali Kravstov there are no forward prospects anywhere in the org. There's a lot of hope that Henriksson and Aaltonen both hulk up but they are huge maybes.
Biggest problem for this franchise the last 30 years is always having to acquire scorers and overpay for them because they don't put themselves in a position to draft them to begin with.
You don't need a HOFer with this pick just get a forward who will be a solid middle six contributor who has some cajones and can score 50 points, be good on faceoffs if they are a center, add some substance. If its, Lundell, awesome. If it's Quinn, great. If it's Rossi, that's ok too.
Outside of Morgan Barron and Vitali Kravstov there are no forward prospects anywhere in the org. There's a lot of hope that Henriksson and Aaltonen both hulk up but they are huge maybes.
Biggest problem for this franchise the last 30 years is always having to acquire scorers and overpay for them because they don't put themselves in a position to draft them to begin with.
Rangers394
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2020
- 902
- 845
Agreed. That's what happens when we blow top 10 picks. We have to overpay or trade assets for them and then we have no depth or picks. Round and round we go.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
The players available between #8-#12 on Tankathon are:
#8 - Rossi
#9 - Sanderson
#10 - Quinn
#11 - Lundell
#12 - Mercer
#8 - Rossi
#9 - Sanderson
#10 - Quinn
#11 - Lundell
#12 - Mercer
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,071
- 40,921
I expect at least 1 player to jump into the top 10. We see it every year.
2015: Zach Werenski
2016: Clayton Keller
2017: Lias Andersson
2018: Barrett Hayton
2019: Moritz Seider, Phillip Broberg
Matt Rentfree
Registered User
My dream (which will never happen) is that we win the lottery, trade down for 3+5, draft Stutzle at 3, draft one of Perfetti, Raymond, Holtz at 5, and draft a support forward like Greig or Brisson or Reichel with the Car/Tor pick. Goes a long way towards shoring up our forward depth.
While I can take or leave most of this post, this observation is very important. The place you get quality forwards is the top half of the draft. You either draft and develop offense or you trade or sign it at a high price. You can get a Norris Trophy defenseman in the second or third round.
HFsNumber1Heel
FKA Roo Returns...Still A Contrarian Apparently
If Lundell is going to be a "boring" forward who can play behind Ziba and allow Chytil to grow at his own pace, take him and don't overthink it.
This team never has center depth ever. Even in 1994 they had Kovalev/Tikkanen/Larmer/Noonan all cosplaying at 2c.
This team never has center depth ever. Even in 1994 they had Kovalev/Tikkanen/Larmer/Noonan all cosplaying at 2c.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
HFsNumber1Heel
FKA Roo Returns...Still A Contrarian Apparently
@bobbop curious which other parts of my post you don't like. Not because of ego just this is some good lively convo for this board on a Saturday when quite few of use may still not have power.
-I can't think of other forward prospects this org has outside of Barron and VK
-How many more D does this org need?
-And I always use "the Paul O'Neil retort" when he told the fan "well how would you have handled that pitcher?" Who would you like to draft and why?
Sidenote: I ripped Kreider during the Canes series and kept saying how signing him was mistake. I think my best friend had enough and finally said "well what would you do with that money then?" and I told him lock ADA up, resign, Fast, resign Strome to a one year deal and he didn't agree but said it was fair.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
- 45,071
- 40,921
If Lundell is a "boring" forward, then so is Couturier. Every year we see people (just to be clear, not you, Roo) refer to 2-way forwards as "low ceiling/low upside" prospects. As if being good defensively makes you automatically bad offensively.
Lundell is a better prospect in his draft year than Sebastian Aho, both offensively and defensively. The only downside, which saw him drop in rankings, was an injury in Late Nov/early Dec that made him miss the WJC
Since 2000:
2nd highest in his D-1 year in P/GP in Liiga (tied with Barkov)
6th highest in his D-year in P/GP in Liiga (trailing Granlund, Barkov, Kakko, Laine, and Lehkonen)
- Status
