Prospect Info: 2020 Draft #111 - Mitchell Miller (RHD) [Mod Warning post #312]

[DropTheGloves]

Did you know that Craig MacTavish killed a lady named Kim Radley while drunk driving, did a year in prison, got out, walked right back into an NHL lineup, won 4 Stanley Cups and later was a coach and a GM?

Because most people don't know that.

I do know that, and I also know that Radley's family forgave MacTavish because he- wait for it- unequivocally owned up to what he did:

''This made us feel better to think that he admitted what he did, admitted he was wrong, and he was man enough to stand up and take it.

''What good are we going to do if we crucify Craig? That`s why we went. We think the whole problem is he`s an excellent young hockey player, he`s an excellent young man. But he`s like any other man in sports. They come out of school, they don`t finish their schooling, they`re given big money, they buy big cars.

''You can`t build a skyscraper if it ain`t got a foundation underneath it.''

 

[The Feckless Puck]

So what does renounce mean here? I know what the definition is, but what is the NHL's definition? Is he no longer considered Coyotes property? His rights aren't held? Could someone draft him next year or do they have to wait four years?

I don't recall this happening before in the NHL.

It's basically just releasing his rights outright. He's no longer the Coyotes' property. Whether he's draft-eligible next year depends on the CBA and I don't know it well enough to say one way or the other; however, I know that other prospects in the past have had their rights released and reentered the draft - IIRC, at one point we held the rights to just such a player (I can't remember his name... Connor someone? Bleackly? I dunno.) who was a redraft. Anyway, I think there's an age limit after which a prospect player becomes an undrafted free agent, but I think since Miller is still only 18 he's eligible for redraft next year.

 

[Jamieh]

It's the nature of the apology. Man, I hate how nuance gets lost on the Internet. The Court-mandated apology was clearly a matter of Miller going through the motions - as evidenced by the fact that he subsequently taunted Isaiah again a couple years after the fact. Being an alleged leader of his ice hockey teams is fine and dandy but that's a whole different context.

You screw over a guy, you need to make it right. If all you do is pay lip service and move on, that's not enough.

The guy who nearly cost me an eye and a testicle, and whose bullying put me through several years of therapy, would still have earned a ton of respect from me if he had ever once come up to me unbidden and genuinely apologized. But part of the bully psychology is making the victim seem less than human, and directly acknowledging the victim in that way humanizes them too much. A bully is not capable of it. That's why, if Miller had had the character to apologize, it would have been a clear sign that he was either past his previous behavior, or working on moving past it.

The subsequent bullying is alleged, not fact. Maybe, just maybe by the time Miller came to grips with himself he might have thought it was too late or just Too embarrassed to go back?

 

[TheLegend]

If you can read this and not be absolutely disgusted and find yourself thinking less of XG, very little of XG or that he’s anything other than a slime ball the YOU are underreacting and have integrity standards that are WAY too low. Take your time and really read it. Spend some time with it.


Xavier Gutierrez on Monday:

"When we first learned of Mitchell's story, it would have been easy for us to dismiss him -- many teams did. Instead, we felt it was our responsibility to be a part of the solution in a real way -- not just saying and doing the right things ourselves but ensuring that others are too.

Given our priorities on diversity and inclusion, we believe that we are in the best position to guide Mitchell into becoming a leader for this cause and preventing bullying and racism now and in the future. As an organization, we have made our expectations very clear to him. We are willing to work with Mitchell and put in the time, effort, and energy and provide him with the necessary resources and platform to confront bullying and racism. This isn't a story about excuses or justifications. It's a story about reflection, growth, and community impact. A true leader finds ways for every person to contribute to the solution. We all need to be a part of the solution."

Xavier Gutierrez on Thursday:
"We have decided to renounce the rights to Mitchell Miller, effective immediately."

Why did you leave out the part where XG said they discovered in inquires they made post the draft that the situation was worse than they originally thought??

I get the optics royally suck here but intentional or not, you’re leaving out a big detail there.

 

[DropTheGloves]

I have not read one bad thing about him since 2016, I am open to seeing your evidence?

I'm going to say this as gently as possible: please read up further. With the whole wide Internet available through smart phones these days, there's no excuse not to know the pertinent facts. Please do that before engaging further.

The lynch mod would be right there on the other kid if he was drafted, you are silly to suggest otherwise.

But if this lynch mob you keep referencing was a real thing, why would it matter what career he was pursuing? Shouldn't they just be... outraged, or whatever?

 

[Jamieh]

I'm going to say this as gently as possible: please read up further. With the whole wide Internet available through smart phones these days, there's no excuse not to know the pertinent facts. Please do that before engaging further.



But if this lynch mob you keep referencing was a real thing, why would it matter what career he was pursuing? Shouldn't they just be... outraged, or whatever?

Gently?? But you can't just produce that evidence? It matters because of the prestige of the career. If the other kid was about to be named a Judge you can bet your last dollar he would be getting the same treatment. A carpenter, hard no. And neither would Miller. Evidence other than already written here might change my opinion,

 

[TheLegend]

There is a ZERO percent chance Gutierrez didn’t have the full story on Monday. Every one of us did.

And you know this how???

The freaking national media didn’t even know until the AZ Republic ran their article and it took off from there. And they were even late to the party.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

And you know this how???

The freaking national media didn’t even know until the AZ Republic ran their article and it took off from there. And they were even late to the party.

If he didn't have the full story, that says a lot about the vetting process - or lack thereof - of this franchise.

 

[IceColdBear]

So what professions should be available to him as he moves forward as a productive human?

Every profession where people are willing to hire him, just like anyone else.

Evidently the Coyotes were willing to draft him, got a taste of the backlash, and decided it wasn't worth it.

Fans of a team (and the NHL as a whole) have a voice in this regard, and have influenced the Coyotes decision - probably a smart decision by the Coyotes to cut him loose. Of course, it was a very dumb decision by the Coyotes to draft him in the first place.

If he were to become an accountant or something, there will probably not be news stories written about him getting a job, and he'd be able to move on to a normal life.

Hell, if he keeps playing hockey, plays well, and shows he's a changed man, he can still get a chance at his hockey dream - if not in the NHL, he could have a chance to make a more than comfortable living playing in Europe.

Mitchell Miller is not a victim.

 

[TheLegend]

If he didn't have the full story, that says a lot about the vetting process - or lack thereof - of this franchise.

I don’t think any of us has the full story. But a lot of people have certainly decided it doesn’t matter.

 

[CLW]

If he didn't have the full story, that says a lot about the vetting process - or lack thereof - of this franchise.

But XG as CEO is not part of the full vetting process is he, nor is he part of the discussions to finalize the draft list? The draft is the business of the GM and the scouts, trainers and doctors etc, the CEO accepts their work as it is. This year was of course odd with the GM not allowed to participate.

 

[KG]

I'm confused. Is there any credible confirmation about any new allegations since the court sentencing? Otherwise, both the AZ Republic and the national media are repeating previous facts.

 

[rt]

I'm confused. Is there any credible confirmation about any new allegations since the court sentencing? Otherwise, both the AZ Republic and the national media are repeating previous information.

No. Nothing new has happened and XG knew all on Monday. They tried to act like they didn’t f*** up and like they were heroic. Nobody bought it (nobody even wanted it to be true, because sickeningly society today prefers retribution to redemption). As soon as they figured out that their attempts at spin didn’t improve their popularity, they went back on everything they said and dropped him like a bad habit. Showing the world their complete and total lack of integrity. XG is not a man. He’s a dirty, greedy, snorting little piggy.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

What, you want Miller's victims to forgive and move on? They forgave Miller's accomplice who showed actual remorse. Miller never could be arsed to. And now local 'hockey families' (Miller's buddies?) are ganging up on the Isaiahs, but you want the Isaiahs to move on? How can they?

Forgiveness is for them, not for Miller. Miller should matter not to them. Nothing good can come from fixating on Miller. Courts have ruled, its over.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Soooooo... is your point that Isaiah's family deserves to receive threats from community families if they don't drop the matter? Please tell me it's not.

It is not. They are sticking up for their own, in lynch mob fashion, much like we see on these threads.

 

[CLW]

There can be no redemption as long as Miller hasn't properly apologized to his victim. The Coyotes belatedly realized their little redemption charade was a non-sequitur, so they did what they had to do.

We can assume this or that, but the fact is we don't know what exactly XG and BA knew and when. I'd think that BA as a professional and ex-scout knew a lot about the Miller case (but maybe not every detail) as it was very common knowledge in the scouting community and that is kind of his job. XG is not a professional hockey person in that sense.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Not a good idea to force an apology on a victim who's not open to it. Somebody from the Miller camp should have reached out to the MC camp to see if they would be open to a face-to-face apology. This is especially true after the McKie boy gave one at the hearing. It's a big mistake not to make an effort to arrange an apology if the victim might be open to receiving one.

We have seen some evidence to suggest that the MC family is a wee bit hot blooded and passionate about the treatment of their children and have a very active urge to seek justice when it comes to their kids. Whether it be open letters to NHL teams or choking a soccer coach. I'm not saying the MC family is bad. I'm saying I respect most of the "facts" I know about them. But I'm also saying they may not have always been open to an in-person apology or there may have been very good reason to suspect it would not have ended up being a productive meeting.

All of that is to say there might have been a reason to think going and apologizing might have made things worse and not better. But that's wild speculation on my part, based on very little. More than likely, the Millers really f***ed up by not attempting to get this taken care of.

The MC family is certainly owed an in-person apology from the Miller family. No doubt about that.

Shame you have to include a disclaimer Every time you offer a perfectly reasonable explanation.

 

[CLW]

Forgiveness is for them, not for Miller. Miller should matter not to them. Nothing good can come from fixating on Miller. Courts have ruled, its over.

Nonsense, see my above post. Miller is (was) the core part of the redemption arc the Coyotes were trying to sell. But since he is an unrepentant assh*le, the whole thing fell apart.

 

[AZviaNJ]

And you know this how???

The freaking national media didn’t even know until the AZ Republic ran their article and it took off from there. And they were even late to the party.

There's so much to unpack with this situation. Including the fact that the Coyotes drafted the kid on Oct 7, XG double-downed 19 days later (Oct 26) making bold commitments to work with and help him. 19 days is ample time to do additional research to avoid the type of fire-storm that has occurred. As @rt said earlier, this screams of Anthony LeBlanc.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Anyone who chokes their kids soccer coach because of unfair distribution of trash time is an asshole. That means Mr MC is an asshole. Screaming and cursing and putting your hands around the neck of a soccer coach in front of the 10 year olds on the team is skeevy. I’m not skeevy. Mr MC is skeevy. I’m not saying he’s “no saint”, I’m saying he’s a f***ing asshole.

Buuuuut him and his wife foster and adopt a whole bunch of kids. Which is extremely admirable. It’s one of the things I truly respect more than anything. It’s honestly pretty “saintly”.

People aren’t just one thing.

Asshole is most likely an understatement. I was coaching ten year olds once and the father of one of the better skaters came across the rink to our bench to chew his kid out. He was an asshole. Going after a Coach is even worse.

 

[XX]

There's so much to unpack with this situation. Including the fact that the Coyotes drafted the kid on Oct 7, XG double-downed 19 days later (Oct 26) making bold commitments to work with and help him. 19 days is ample time to do additional research to avoid the type of fire-storm that has occurred. As @rt said earlier, this screams of Anthony LeBlanc.

The spotlight tends to shake new information loose and let teams know just how dumb something they are doing really is. It's entirely possible they came across new information, talked to people, had an internal revolt over the pick, got unsolicited messages from respected hockey people telling them bad things about Miller and/or to cut bait. Things can change rapidly. If Doaner is suddenly not hot to join the organization and is asking hard questions, that's an example of a reality check.

XG went to bat for his guys, same as BA. You probably shouldn't trust corporate speak coming from a hand picked private equity guy that knows f*** all about hockey to begin with. They both got humbled pretty hard. That can be a good thing in the long run. XG in particular probably needed this.

Having Miller around was always going to be a massive distraction. It is the opposite of what BA has been preaching. It is the opposite of what the organization talks about publicly. The why and how of his selection is the most important thing now that they apologized to the family. Someone has some explaining to do. I eagerly await the fallout.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Nonsense, see my above post. Miller is (was) the core part of the redemption arc the Coyotes were trying to sell. But since he is an unrepentant assh*le, the whole thing fell apart.

Redemption is for Miller, we were speaking of the family, forgiveness is for and on them. The abuser is the sinner, not the abused.

 

[Albatros]

Redemption is for Miller, we were speaking of the family, forgiveness is for and on them. The abuser is the sinner, not the abused.

I would find it delusional to forgive someone who evidently isn't sorry.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The spotlight tends to shake new information loose and let teams know just how dumb something they are doing really is. It's entirely possible they came across new information, talked to people, had an internal revolt over the pick, got unsolicited messages from respected hockey people telling them bad things about Miller and/or to cut bait. Things can change rapidly. If Doaner is suddenly not hot to join the organization and is asking hard questions, that's an example of a reality check.

XG went to bat for his guys, same as BA. You probably shouldn't trust corporate speak coming from a hand picked private equity guy that knows f*** all about hockey to begin with. They both got humbled pretty hard. That can be a good thing in the long run. XG in particular probably needed this.

Having Miller around was always going to be a massive distraction. It is the opposite of what BA has been preaching. It is the opposite of what the organization talks about publicly. The why and how of his selection is the most important thing now that they apologized to the family. Someone has some explaining to do. I eagerly await the fallout.

This is the same ridiculous take many had with Doan regarding Ribero. Doan is a Christian and would not shun these transgressors.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

It is not. They are sticking up for their own, in lynch mob fashion, much like we see on these threads.

I cannot stress enough how much victim-shaming sucks the credibility from your position.