Prospect Info: 2020 Draft #111 - Mitchell Miller (RHD) [Mod Warning post #312]

[TheLegend]

JMC’s continued activism in this matter is interesting to me. I’m trying to think about how I would react if I was her. I can’t get myself into those shoes well enough. I can’t figure on whether this kind of campaigning years later is commendable or suspect. Really. I can’t.

Probably spurred on by Miller's sudden upgrade in media status/attention?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

JMC’s continued activism in this matter is interesting to me. I’m trying to think about how I would react if I was her. I can’t get myself into those shoes well enough. I can’t figure on whether this kind of campaigning years later is commendable or suspect. Really. I can’t.

I can give a little perspective here (based on my post above) - in my experience, I've found that many parents will hold grudges about this sort of thing far longer than the actual victim will. The deep dive on this is better left to therapists because of a lot of complex factors. I'm sure, though, that as a parent yourself you understand the protective instinct and the desire for justice for your kids; but also, if they're old enough for you to have intervened on their behalf, you may also have experienced their resistance to your well-intentioned efforts.

I think also that the current environment and circumstances are complicating things to a pretty insane degree. The element of race, the element of developmental challenges, the issue of a future professional sporting career - it all turns what was already a messy situation into a real nightmare.

All else aside, it's a morass in which I wish the Coyotes had never gotten themselves involved.

 

[Dead Coyote]

You are talking like you have personal direct knowledge of Mitchell about the incident and he daily life since.

I have messaged his mom on facebook!

Edit: IMC's mom, that is.

 

[rt]

All else aside, it's a morass in which I wish the Coyotes had never gotten themselves involved.

Yep. This was my first post in the thread:

Just a complete unforced error. I know he was a kid. And I hope he’s over it. And I wish him the best. But why, oh why, oh why, couldn’t we let him slip to some other team? Literally any other team? The team that didn’t pick until 111th because they got sanctioned for cheating used their first pick on the only kid in the draft who has been arrested for bullying a disabled child.

At a certain point, you have to be self-aware and understand that you aren’t the team for this project. It’s inappropriate. Let a respectable team try. Just take the next kid on your list.

Bastards. Poor, poor judgement.

 

[TheLegend]

RE: Teams dropping Miller off their lists....

from Aaron Portzline (Athletic paywall)
'There is a victim out there': Coyotes, NHL knew of Mitchell Miller's ugly past

Cliff's notes:

-- the Coyotes had dropped Miller off their list in June because of inconsistencies in the info they were given. Not sure why or how he was reconsidered. But noted all the changes to the hockey ops staff with Chayka leaving inbetween.
-- at least 10 teams dropped him off their draft list based on all the accounts. Some teams had Zoom calls with Miller.
-- No NHL team ever contacted the mother prior to the draft.
-- Not sure if Blues (Armstrong) had him under consideration.
-- Was not on Sabres' list (Jankowski)

 

[Dead Coyote]

Sounds like Chayka said no and the Coyotes said yes, lmao. You might as well come out and say that you're going to forgive his behaviour because you desperately need NHL level talent /s

 

[rt]

Ryan Jankowski, the team’s associate director of amateur scouting, who joined the Coyotes from Buffalo in early October a week before the draft, was the man running point on the draft.
Interestingly enough the Buffalo Sabres did not have Miller on their draft list in June and multiple sources familiar with a Coyotes draft meeting said that the Coyotes had dropped Miller from their draft list after concerns were raised about inconsistencies in Miller’s explanation of the incident.
So, was the temptation to get better value in terms of skill and potential this late in the draft worth ignoring Miller’s troubling background?
Burnside: With the selection of Mitchell Miller come consequences for Coyotes
Burnside: With the selection of Mitchell Miller come consequences for Coyotes

 

[rt]

Burnside answers that question comically by saying “Clearly the answer was yes” but provided no support for that assertion. Yikes. It’s getting extremely rough out there in journalism land.

 

[rt]

RE: Teams dropping Miller off their lists....

from Aaron Portzline (Athletic paywall)
'There is a victim out there': Coyotes, NHL knew of Mitchell Miller's ugly past

Cliff's notes:

-- the Coyotes had dropped Miller off their list in June because of inconsistencies in the info they were given. Not sure why or how he was reconsidered. But noted all the changes to the hockey ops staff with Chayka leaving inbetween.
-- at least 10 teams dropped him off their draft list based on all the accounts. Some teams had Zoom calls with Miller.
-- No NHL team ever contacted the mother prior to the draft.
-- Not sure if Blues (Armstrong) had him under consideration.
-- Was not on Sabres' list (Jankowski)

This one is much better than the Burnside article. Portzline did a better job.

The much less biased reporting of facts from sources in this article makes this whole thing seem much worse.

At least ten teams had him DND and the Coyotes did too before they fired the old scouting group.

Not. Good.

 

[XX]

How do you draft a guy that is supposedly on no lists between your old GM, new GM, and new #2 scout? And a guy that was on 10+ DNDs to boot.

How do you draft such a kid ahead of others?

Apart from the victim suffering, this is some really bizarre shit from a hockey organization that no longer appears like they did their homework or were even on the same page.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

He literally broke the law.

Yes, I wrote that wrong and upon realization, edited to read that the law has been applied.

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Quick one to say that whilst this pick is becoming rapidly a national ice hockey hot potato in a hockey dead news period, this thread has been going on since the very second this pick was made with lots of tough, rough, deep, emotional, hopeful, cold angry posts by many.

It has challenged/is challenging us, it is quite a deep topic really, and there is a lot in here worth reading, thinking about. Thank you.

This is where I am at about it at this very second:

We should have never made that pick, and this is no judgment on the situation, Miller or, more importantly, his victim and family.

The fact that the Coyotes have not anticipated this backfiring is absolutely crazy.

This franchise based in the desert is also lost at sea, it seems.

It is extremely difficult to be proud or be a fan of it.

 

[rt]

How do you draft a guy that is supposedly on no lists between your old GM, new GM, and new #2 scout? And a guy that was on 10+ DNDs to boot.

How do you draft such a kid ahead of others?

Apart from the victim suffering, this is some really bizarre shit from a hockey organization that no longer appears like they did their homework or were even on the same page.

Scott Burnside is insinuating (and weirdly presenting as an obvious fact) that the Coyotes were desperate to find value in the 4th due to their lack of picks, and opted to select a player who, if given a clean track-record off-ice, would have gone a round or two higher. Burnside failed to support this is any way, but it makes sense.

If they were “somewhat” satisfied with his comments regarding the incident, viewed his acceptance at NoDak as a good sign, and were “reasonably” confident he’d keep his nose clean from here on out, maybe they figured they’d take a swing at #111 because maybe Jankowski or some other voice in the room had him rated #47 or something like that (apart from the baggage).

Perhaps the pressure to find “value” by being “creative” caused them to do something stupid by taking a kid who’s upside they love, as long as they can pinch their noses and pretend the stink isn’t there from his past.

I wouldn’t have done it. And I don’t think it was wise to do it. And even if I understand the pressure, I still don’t respect the decision.

 

[XX]

Scott Burnside is insinuating (and weirdly presenting as an obvious fact) that the Coyotes were desperate to find value in the 4th due to their lack of picks, and opted to select a player who, if given a clean track-record off-ice, would have gone a round or two higher. Burnside failed to support this is any way, but it makes sense.

The only other alternative I can picture is something truly stupid happening, like Hofford putting the name back on the list with positive notes and everyone in the room just being okay with it for some reason due to a high rating.

Burnside is actually giving the org. (and the player) the benefit of the doubt with his argument. The alternatives are worse.

 

[rt]

The only other alternative I can picture is something truly stupid happening, like Hofford putting the name back on the list with positive notes and everyone in the room just being okay with it for some reason due to a high rating.

Burnside is actually giving the org. (and the player) the benefit of the doubt with his argument. The alternatives are worse.

I think it’s pretty well documented they knew the backstory on the player. It seems like they went into day two banking on him falling to 111. It feels like they targeted him as a special kind of value in their late range.

I have to guess that if they some how acquired a 1st or 2nd in a trade, they wouldn’t have gone with Miller at 111.

 

[XX]

I think it’s pretty well documented they knew the backstory on the player. It seems like they went into day two banking on him falling to 111. It feels like they targeted him as a special kind of value in their late range.

I have to guess that if they some how acquired a 1st or 2nd in a trade, they wouldn’t have gone with Miller at 111.

If they knew he was still taunting the kid after the fact then that's 2.5 strikes for me against a FO that has just been seated. That is garbage. A total dereliction of duty.

They took Nussbaumer in the 7th for value shits and giggles. That should have been the grade here. This was not the organization to pull this. The more that is said about how it went down, the worse it looks.

 

[rt]

If they knew he was still taunting the kid after the fact then that's 2.5 strikes for me against a FO that has just been seated. That is garbage. A total dereliction of duty.

They took Nussbaumer in the 7th for value shits and giggles. That should have been the grade here. This was not the organization to pull this. The more that is said about how it went down, the worse it looks.

The still taunting the kid two years later bit is maybe a little suspect. The victim’s mother seems to be a little bit less than credible in the way she retells events:


I am NOT saying that she’s a bad mom or than her son deserved anything he got or that her other issues in any way absolve Miller of ANY of his blame. But, I think reading this police report and email and text threads make me take her recent comments with a grain of salt.

What happened in 2016 is well documented and supported. But when it comes to accusations solely from this source (JMC) and not corroborated by others, I’m going to be a little skeptical.

 

[TheLegend]

Burnside answers that question comically by saying “Clearly the answer was yes” but provided no support for that assertion. Yikes. It’s getting extremely rough out there in journalism land.

The sharks smell the chum.

 

[rt]

The sharks smell the chum.

You definitely don’t want to give journalists a cheap and easy option for virtue signaling right now.

Disclaimer: AGAIN!!! I would not have drafted Miller and I think there’s at least a 50% chance he’s a bad kid who doesn’t deserve a shot.

 

[TheLegend]

The still taunting the kid two years later bit is maybe a little suspect. The victim’s mother seems to be a little bit less than credible in the way she retells events:


I am NOT saying that she’s a bad mom or than her son deserved anything he got or that her other issues in any way absolve Miller of ANY of his blame. But, I think reading this police report and email and text threads make me take her recent comments with a grain of salt.

What happened in 2016 is well documented and supported. But when it comes to accusations solely from this source (JMC) and not corroborated by others, I’m going to be a little skeptical.

Portzline's article indicates she's a career foster parent. She's had the care of 57 kids to date. However she adopted the one Miller victimized.

 

[rt]

I think second chances are great. When it comes to children, I think second chances are mandatory. I hope Miller has turned it around and becomes a good leader and positive, contributing member of society. Hell, I hope he has a great career, too. I hope he pays it forward and gives back and makes progress in the world for change.

I’m okay with a team drafting him. I just wish it wasn’t this one. Damn.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I guess in the interest of full disclosure that I should mention that I was bullied like Miller's victim was over a period of years when I was still in junior high and high school. I'm not keen on sharing many details (although I nearly lost an eye and a testicle - in two separate incidents, unfortunately). I will mention for anyone readying the "beta cuck" insult that I challenged the guy to a fight once and he never showed, but it didn't stop anything.

If ever I wished I didn't have bonafides or receipts for something, this is probably the top of my list.

This is far from a charmed life and I'm genuinely sorry you had to endure this.

My story is different in that I was physically abused as a four / five year old and sexually abused at eight, my parents still have no idea any of this ever happened. After that I became the bully and my parents knew nothing of that either. I never apologized to any of them, that I recall. What I do recall (because I had the opportunity) was doing my best to show respect to the last kid I bullied. This bullying ended when we were both twelve, but sadly I found out 23 years later that he had taken his own life at some point in between those years. I will never know if I am directly responsible, but it's obvious I did him no favors in life, I can only hope that by showing him respect, he understood my remorse. I will live with this until the day I die and am far from perfect, but much further from what I was then.

In retrospect (oddly enough) I believe it was organized hockey that started to turn things for me. I had started skating at around the age of six, but did not play organized hockey until I was eight and it gave me confidence. Unfortunately at that age, I let that confidence morph into bullying, I was good at hockey, obviously bad with social skills. The realization of what a complete asshole I was being didn't come until I was around thirteen, maybe fourteen at which point I was able to show respect to the young man who was my friend before a stupid incident resulted in my bullying him.

Again, I sincerely hope both these individuals can put this in the rear view mirror and thrive in life. It would seem you and I have. There is no changing the past and to dwell on it with negativity (to my thinking), is just an act of self pity.

 

[rt]

Portzline's article indicates she's a career foster parent. She's had the care of 57 kids to date. However she adopted the one Miller victimized.

She appears to be the parent of the redacted child in the records I linked, too. The one where the dad assaulted the soccer coach over playing time and She had her ...”reaction”.

The world is complicated man. These people appear to love children so much that they foster, adopt, love, support and defend them ferociously.

But they don’t appear to be perfect angels. Going batshit crazy on the parent group chat after your husband assaults the soccer coach because your kid didn’t get enough trash time isn’t good behavior.

But she’s probably a good person anyway. Everyone has problems. Everyone.

 

[AZviaNJ]

How do you draft a guy that is supposedly on no lists between your old GM, new GM, and new #2 scout? And a guy that was on 10+ DNDs to boot.

How do you draft such a kid ahead of others?

Apart from the victim suffering, this is some really bizarre shit from a hockey organization that no longer appears like they did their homework or were even on the same page.

This seems to land squarely on Sullivan's shoulders.

 

[rt]

This seems to land squarely on Sullivan's shoulders.

Huh? Wasn’t he running the AHL team all year? Lol. He’s not even a scout. I think if anyone, it’s Jankowksi. Even then, he’d been on the job for like three days? So was it really him? This was the perfect storm. Maybe because Jankowksi drafted Cizikas, he’s got a soft spot for troubled kids needing second chances. He just underestimated the social/political climate right now.