Prospect Info: 2020 Draft #111 - Mitchell Miller (RHD) [Mod Warning post #312]

[The Feckless Puck]

Anyone else find it interesting that both Gutierrez' and Miller's prepared statements used the same phrase - "a leader for this cause"?

Just me?

Ok.

 

[rt]

I can't believe you're really questioning the mothers credibility over her husband calling someone a piece of shit. Like, that's the extent of that police report.

EDIT: Not sure what email or text threads you're referring to.

Huh? Scroll my man. Scroll. That’s a 30 page PDF.

 

[rt]

Anyone else find it interesting that both Gutierrez' and Miller's prepared statements used the same phrase - "a leader for this cause"?

Just me?

Ok.

What is the point of drafting this kid and having to go through this? To get the 68th kid at 111th? LOL. This is so goddamned stupid.

 

[XX]

^ I can feel the way I do about those things and still see that maybe this lady is a little off and the way she remembers incidents is a little coo coo. I think it’s pretty clear when you read the police report that she’s got an interesting approach to conflict.

I read the PDF and didn't get that at all. Just seems like a typical soccer mom that's upset about her son not getting playing time even in a blowout. Maybe read pg 7 in its entirety.

Still super disgusting you're even bringing it up at all, because it's not relevant. The main incident was handled in a court and isn't in dispute. The veracity of the taunting after the fact is TBD.

 

[rt]

I read the PDF and didn't get that at all. Just seems like a typical soccer mom that's upset about her son not getting playing time even in a blowout. Maybe read pg 7 in its entirety.

Still super disgusting you're even bringing it up at all, because it's not relevant. The main incident was handled in a court and isn't in dispute. The veracity of the taunting after the fact is TBD.

It’s not super disgusting. It was brought up only as context to her most recent letter. The style matches. And her beefing with the whole soccer team after her husband physically attacked a soccer coach in front of children over a perceived slight in trash time is absolutely relevant to the idea of her most current claims, years later, having impeachable veracity when uncorroborated.

But you’re just lazily sniping cheap shots at this point because it’s easy. I’ve already provided the context for my statements. You’re just being an ass.

The Miller kid seems to be a Grade A creep. Nothing this lady says now Or has done in the past changes that. And you know damn well I’m not suggesting it does. I don’t know how many times I can repeat myself.

The Coyotes were extremely stupid to draft this kid. His past behavior is absolutely reptilian at best. Just vile. I’ve never moved off of either position.

 

[XX]

It’s not super disgusting.

It is. It's important for you to understand that.

But you’re just lazily sniping cheap shots at this point because it’s easy. I’ve already provided the context for my statements. You’re just being an ass.

There's no context where whining about virtue signaling, white knights, and digging up/signal boosting irrelevant "dirt" on the victim's mom is acceptable. It's trash. You're not being a critical thinker at all in this situation. Anything but.

And her beefing with the whole soccer team after her husband physically attacked a soccer coach in front of children over a perceived slight in trash time is absolutely relevant to the idea of her most current claims, years later, having impeachable veracity when uncorroborated.

The beef is over playing time, as far as I can tell. She admitted her husband's actions were inappropriate right as it happened. It's run of the mill soccer parent drama and not at all relevant, and her final text (pg 12, they are out of order) seems pretty reasonable. The Coyotes will (hopefully) follow up on her letter and the accusations of continued harassment. I'm sure that's news to the Coyotes and UND, or at least I hope it is.

In this situation, I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the person abused for six years, not the abuser. You talked a big game earlier about being understanding but suddenly it doesn't extend to the mother of a special needs child with an apparently unstable husband. Your mileage apparently varies a lot.

It's okay to bow out and say "this shit sucks." Because it does. For everyone, but not equally. Miller got drafted and a full ride, now his victim has to watch this shit be re-litigated in headlines while dealing with the consequences of the bullying for the rest of his life. Remember that before you post.

 

[Foggy1097]

Might as well bow out of this one @rt. Don’t bother trying to think critically or examine issues further than what surface level garbage journalism provides you with...that’s what assholes do. Just grab your pitchfork and torch man...it’s what all the cool kids are doing.

 

[rt]

It is. It's important for you to understand that.



There's no context where whining about virtue signaling, white knights, and digging up/signal boosting irrelevant "dirt" on the victim's mom is acceptable. It's trash. You're not being a critical thinker at all in this situation. Anything but.



The beef is over playing time, as far as I can tell. She admitted her husband's actions were inappropriate right as it happened. It's run of the mill soccer parent drama and not at all relevant, and her final text (pg 12, they are out of order) seems pretty reasonable. The Coyotes will (hopefully) follow up on her letter and the accusations of continued harassment. I'm sure that's news to the Coyotes and UND, or at least I hope it is.

In this situation, I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the person abused for six years, not the abuser. You talked a big game earlier about being understanding but suddenly it doesn't extend to the mother of a special needs child with an apparently unstable husband. Your mileage apparently varies a lot.

It's okay to bow out and say "this shit sucks." Because it does. For everyone, but not equally. Miller got drafted and a full ride, now his victim has to watch this shit be re-litigated in headlines while dealing with the consequences of the bullying for the rest of his life. Remember that before you post.

You’re pointedly misrepresenting my intentions which I made perfectly clear. It’s completely disingenuous.

You’re also really out on a limb on “typical soccer parent behavior”. Choking the coach because of trash time (or for any reason) isn’t typical or “run of the mill”. You’re stretching the f*** out of that narrative.

As I’ve said, I’m guessing this lady is a good person by most standards. As I’ve said, she seems extremely passionate about child welfare and seems to back this up with her actions. I was extremely clear about that. You’re conveniently choosing to ignore that in order to pretend this argument is about your justly standing up for the victimized while I’m callously defending the entitled bully.

I have not defended Miller. I have not attempted to excuse his actions in any way at any point. I’ve been completely consistent.

I’ve been critical of the selection from the start and have been dismayed and upset from the beginning about the choices the Coyotes made.

Whatever you are saying here, has absolutely nothing to do with me or anything I’ve said. You’re shadow boxing in front of a mirror. Whatever you’re geared up for, it ain’t me.

 

[rt]

Everything that’s come out just seems to make this worse. Haha. Sucks. How in the world is a f***en 4th rounder worth any of this? Literally just pull a name out of a hat.
Here are some I’d have liked

Jackson Kunz
Zion Nybeck
Eamon Powell
Bogdan Trineyev
William Villeneuve
Antonio Stranges
Sean Farrell
Tyler Tullio
Evan Vierling
Martin Chromiak
Alex Cotton
Brett Berard
Maksim Berezkin
Ryder Rolaton
Isaak Phillips

All went between the Miller pick and the Bantle pick. I’d take literally any player other than Miller, but those would’ve been my favorites. All worth being at least a little excited about.

 

[Ncit3]

The problem I'm seeing throughout this thread is justification of his actions to further a team in a sport. This is entertainment. Hockey isn't life or death.

If, let's say, I found out that Alex Newhook or Bowen Byram ever did something similar. I would be furious. I would want them off my team and out of the league. I don't care the talent level or the franchise impact a player has. You don't allow racist bullies a spot in the NHL.

I've never been a fan of cancel culture. I think many situations have grey areas and require a lot of depth to understand. But this kid has only shown regret because it has impacted his chosen career. Everyone deserves a second chance if they soul search and change for the better. But he hasn't shown remorse or even tried to apologize to the person receiving this abuse.

Mitchell Miller is an 18 year old man. And he is deemed old enough to skate with men in the NHL. He can legally vote in this election. He could fight and die in the military. And despite him being old enough to do all these things. He still isn't big enough to apologize to someone he abused, bullied, and created a myriad psychological pain for.

Maybe Mitchell Miller isn't a wayward child. But instead maybe he's a bigot of a man.

 

[Fuhrious]

The problem I'm seeing throughout this thread is justification of his actions to further a team in a sport. This is entertainment. Hockey isn't life or death.

If, let's say, I found out that Alex Newhook or Bowen Byram ever did something similar. I would be furious. I would want them off my team and out of the league. I don't care the talent level or the franchise impact a player has. You don't allow racist bullies a spot in the NHL.

I've never been a fan of cancel culture. I think many situations have grey areas and require a lot of depth to understand. But this kid has only shown regret because it has impacted his chosen career. Everyone deserves a second chance if they soul search and change for the better. But he hasn't shown remorse or even tried to apologize to the person receiving this abuse.

Mitchell Miller is an 18 year old man. And he is deemed old enough to skate with men in the NHL. He can legally vote in this election. He could fight and die in the military. And despite him being old enough to do all these things. He still isn't big enough to apologize to someone he abused, bullied, and created a myriad psychological pain for.

Maybe Mitchell Miller isn't a wayward child. But instead maybe he's a bigot of a man.

Wait... Who "throughout this thread" is justifying his actions? Besides Jake back on page 2, I mean...

Don't come strolling in here piling on f40 for some out of context nonsense...

 

[TheLegend]

I don't think anyone is condoning, or excusing, or ignoring, or (insert your favorite synonym here) regarding what Miller did.

The differences are in how he should be judged going forward.

That said.........

If you want to comment about the subject, then do so. However keep to the subject. That does not include hurling personal insults at other posters you don't agree with them.

 

[Jakey53]

This is far from a charmed life and I'm genuinely sorry you had to endure this.

My story is different in that I was physically abused as a four / five year old and sexually abused at eight, my parents still have no idea any of this ever happened. After that I became the bully and my parents knew nothing of that either. I never apologized to any of them, that I recall. What I do recall (because I had the opportunity) was doing my best to show respect to the last kid I bullied. This bullying ended when we were both twelve, but sadly I found out 23 years later that he had taken his own life at some point in between those years. I will never know if I am directly responsible, but it's obvious I did him no favors in life, I can only hope that by showing him respect, he understood my remorse. I will live with this until the day I die and am far from perfect, but much further from what I was then.

In retrospect (oddly enough) I believe it was organized hockey that started to turn things for me. I had started skating at around the age of six, but did not play organized hockey until I was eight and it gave me confidence. Unfortunately at that age, I let that confidence morph into bullying, I was good at hockey, obviously bad with social skills. The realization of what a complete asshole I was being didn't come until I was around thirteen, maybe fourteen at which point I was able to show respect to the young man who was my friend before a stupid incident resulted in my bullying him.

Again, I sincerely hope both these individuals can put this in the rear view mirror and thrive in life. It would seem you and I have. There is no changing the past and to dwell on it with negativity (to my thinking), is just an act of self pity.

Good and honest post. None of us are perfect, although some on this board think otherwise. We ALL have had incidents in our life that we would take back if we could. We all make mistakes, and it's how we learn from those mistakes is what's important. Your last paragraph is powerful and correct.

 

[Jakey53]

She appears to be the parent of the redacted child in the records I linked, too. The one where the dad assaulted the soccer coach over playing time and She had her ...”reaction”.

The world is complicated man. These people appear to love children so much that they foster, adopt, love, support and defend them ferociously.

But they don’t appear to be perfect angels. Going batshit crazy on the parent group chat after your husband assaults the soccer coach because your kid didn’t get enough trash time isn’t good behavior.

But she’s probably a good person anyway. Everyone has problems. Everyone.

Exactly, and there is two sides to every story.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Exactly, and there is two sides to every story.

Three - His, theirs, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Jamieh]

The problem I'm seeing throughout this thread is justification of his actions to further a team in a sport. This is entertainment. Hockey isn't life or death.

If, let's say, I found out that Alex Newhook or Bowen Byram ever did something similar. I would be furious. I would want them off my team and out of the league. I don't care the talent level or the franchise impact a player has. You don't allow racist bullies a spot in the NHL.

I've never been a fan of cancel culture. I think many situations have grey areas and require a lot of depth to understand. But this kid has only shown regret because it has impacted his chosen career. Everyone deserves a second chance if they soul search and change for the better. But he hasn't shown remorse or even tried to apologize to the person receiving this abuse.

Mitchell Miller is an 18 year old man. And he is deemed old enough to skate with men in the NHL. He can legally vote in this election. He could fight and die in the military. And despite him being old enough to do all these things. He still isn't big enough to apologize to someone he abused, bullied, and created a myriad psychological pain for.

Maybe Mitchell Miller isn't a wayward child. But instead maybe he's a bigot of a man.

I dont remember this level of of grief at Steve Downie being in the team?

 

[GuelphStormer]

There are many emerging reports of physical and sexual abuse and racist taunts of young players by coaches, parents and other players and the devastating effect of that abuse on these victims. Indeed, it sometimes continues into university sports. What we may used to have called 'hazing' is now under a spotlight and organizations are taking steps to stop it, weed out offenders and seek redress. And the league itself has established the Hockey Diversity Alliance to begin to address some of these problems.

While this situation is unrelated, it does make me wonder how many players will want to play with Miller or anyone of his character, and whether he would be treated by teammates as a pariah. I just can't help but keep going back to the team's decision to draft him and how stupid it was, on so many levels. The franchise deserves all of the bad press it is currently receiving, this was a very bad decision. I also have to wonder what Bettman thinks of this situation, he can't be happy.

 

[Jakey53]

Wait... Who "throughout this thread" is justifying his actions? Besides Jake back on page 2, I mean...

Don't come strolling in here piling on f40 for some out of context nonsense...

Wait a second there Fuhrious. I did not say his actions were justified. I said he made a "mistake", which he has been punished by law.

 

[Jakey53]

There are many emerging reports of physical and sexual abuse and racist taunts of young players by coaches, parents and other players and the devastating effect of that abuse on these victims. Indeed, it sometimes continues into university sports. What we may used to have called 'hazing' is now under a spotlight and organizations are taking steps to stop it, weed out offenders and seek redress. And the league itself has established the Hockey Diversity Alliance to begin to address some of these problems.

While this situation is unrelated, it does make me wonder how many players will want to play with Miller or anyone of his character, and whether he would be treated by teammates as a pariah. I just can't help but keep going back to the team's decision to draft him and how stupid it was, on so many levels. The franchise deserves all of the bad press it is currently receiving, this was a very bad decision. I also have to wonder what Bettman thinks of this situation, he can't be happy.

He did the crime, did his time. Let's move on here folks. Leave this young man alone. His actions moving forward will determine what kind of character and person he will be.

 

[GuelphStormer]

He did the crime, did his time. Let's move on here folks. Leave this young man alone. His actions moving forward will determine what kind of character and person he will be.

NHL franchises are not social service agencies, they have no obligation to assist troubled youth not already in the organization. would you draft a convicted rapist to play on your NHL team? how about a kid who killed his grandmother while high? or a kid who still regularly attend Klan meetings? im certainly not equating these exaggerated actions with what Miller did but where do you personally draw the line in terms of what sort of players you would want? reports are that at least 10 teams assessed the situation and decided not to even consider him because of his history. were they wrong?

does anyone here actually believe the Coyotes are seeking to counsel this kid and help him grow as a person? or, do people think they knew but didn't think it a big deal, were unprepared for the backlash and are now trying to spin cover and hope the story goes away?

given what we know, would you have drafted him, Jakey53?

 

[Jakey53]

NHL franchises are not social service agencies, they have no obligation to assist troubled youth not already in the organization. would you draft a convicted rapist to play on your NHL team? how about a kid who killed his grandmother while high? or a kid who still regularly attend Klan meetings? im certainly not equating these exaggerated actions with what Miller did but where do you personally draw the line in terms of what sort of players you would want? reports are that at least 10 teams assessed the situation and decided not to even consider him because of his history. were they wrong?

does anyone here actually believe the Coyotes are seeking to counsel this kid and help him grow as a person? or, do people think they knew but didn't think it a big deal, were unprepared for the backlash and are now trying to spin cover and hope the story goes away?

given what we know, would you have drafted him, Jakey53?

YES. The Coyotes knew about this incident, and I'm sure they looked very hard at the information they got before deciding. Everyone is making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[rt]

NHL franchises are not social service agencies, they have no obligation to assist troubled youth not already in the organization. would you draft a convicted rapist to play on your NHL team? how about a kid who killed his grandmother while high? or a kid who still regularly attend Klan meetings? im certainly not equating these exaggerated actions with what Miller did but where do you personally draw the line in terms of what sort of players you would want? reports are that at least 10 teams assessed the situation and decided not to even consider him because of his history. were they wrong?

does anyone here actually believe the Coyotes are seeking to counsel this kid and help him grow as a person? or, do people think they knew but didn't think it a big deal, were unprepared for the backlash and are now trying to spin cover and hope the story goes away?

given what we know, would you have drafted him, Jakey53?

A little of both. In the think they figured they could guide him well enough to leave it in the past but were also unprepared for this level of negative attention. I’m 100% they wouldn’t draft him if given the chance to go back in time. But now they’re choosing to double down on the logic they had when they decided on the pick.

 

[rt]

The problem I'm seeing throughout this thread is justification of his actions to further a team in a sport. This is entertainment. Hockey isn't life or death.

If, let's say, I found out that Alex Newhook or Bowen Byram ever did something similar. I would be furious. I would want them off my team and out of the league. I don't care the talent level or the franchise impact a player has. You don't allow racist bullies a spot in the NHL.

I've never been a fan of cancel culture. I think many situations have grey areas and require a lot of depth to understand. But this kid has only shown regret because it has impacted his chosen career. Everyone deserves a second chance if they soul search and change for the better. But he hasn't shown remorse or even tried to apologize to the person receiving this abuse.

Mitchell Miller is an 18 year old man. And he is deemed old enough to skate with men in the NHL. He can legally vote in this election. He could fight and die in the military. And despite him being old enough to do all these things. He still isn't big enough to apologize to someone he abused, bullied, and created a myriad psychological pain for.

Maybe Mitchell Miller isn't a wayward child. But instead maybe he's a bigot of a man.

As much as you wish people were defending Miller so that you can be a hero and fight for the poor bullied kid, it’s just not happening. Nobody is defending Miller and you don’t get to be a hero. Find another windmill Don Quixote.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Everyone is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Yeah, this is where I bow out. Once a take this bad gets thrown out into the wild, there's no turning back.

 

[technoviking]

Who are these random people coming on here and completely misrepresenting what I see people posting? Enough already.