He’s got a ways to go to get the the level we have seen Girard at. G has his wrinkles, but he’s also 23, on a great deal and has played very well for this team for multiple seasons. Byram hasn’t even been able to stay healthy. So, before throwing him into a top 4 role, let’s see him get the games in and progress. Personally, I wouldn’t move either of them.
Rumor: 2020-21 Trade Rumours and FA Part VIII: Intra-Playoff Edition?
- Thread starter SoundwaveIsCharisma
- Start date
-
Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
- Status
He’s got a ways to go to get the the level we have seen Girard at. G has his wrinkles, but he’s also 23, on a great deal and has played very well for this team for multiple seasons. Byram hasn’t even been able to stay healthy. So, before throwing him into a top 4 role, let’s see him get the games in and progress. Personally, I wouldn’t move either of them.
Alright so did some cap crunching and here it is: Avs certified offseason to guarantee a cup next year:
- Trade Sam Girard + JT Compher + Martin Kaut for Seth Jones. Kaut is the cost for dumping JTC in the deal. Avs then sign Seth Jones to a 7 year/56M extension.
- Ryan Graves is selected by Seattle in the expansion draft.
- At the draft, Avs trade 2021 1st + Connor Timmins + to Philly for Sean Couturier
- Avs sign Gabriel Landeskog to a 7 Year, 50M extension. 7.14M cap hit
- Avs sign Cale Makar to an 8 Year, 75M extension. 9.375M cap hit.
- Avs sign Philip Grubauer to a 5 Year, 26M extension. Personally dont love the idea of 5 years, think 3-4 would be better. But in order to keep the aav in the 5 range and not 6, the Avs go the 5 years. 5.20M cap hit.
- Avs sign Tyson Jost to a 2 Year, 2.2M contract. 1.1 aav.
Landeskog - Mackinnon - Rantanen
Burakovsky - Couturier - Newhook
Donskoi - Kadri - Nichushkin
O'Connor - Jost - Ranta
Toews - Makar
Byram - Jones
MacDonald - ???
Grubauer
Francouz
Johanson
That roster would come in at 74.175M.
Which would also mean one of two things. Either the Avs could actually keep Erik Johnson as the 3rd pairing RHD, meaning with his 6M cap hit we'd hit 80.175M leaving us just enough space for one more league minimum contract as an extra forward or Dman. Or, if the Avs buy out EJ, he carries a 2.0M cap hit for the next 4 years. Which would then mean we'd have a 76.175M cap hit for next year leaving us with roughly ~3M to spend on a 3rd pairing RHD, and another 1.8M or so to spend on a pair of extra skater(7th D and 13th forward) to fill out the roster.
- Trade Sam Girard + JT Compher + Martin Kaut for Seth Jones. Kaut is the cost for dumping JTC in the deal. Avs then sign Seth Jones to a 7 year/56M extension.
- Ryan Graves is selected by Seattle in the expansion draft.
- At the draft, Avs trade 2021 1st + Connor Timmins + to Philly for Sean Couturier
- Avs sign Gabriel Landeskog to a 7 Year, 50M extension. 7.14M cap hit
- Avs sign Cale Makar to an 8 Year, 75M extension. 9.375M cap hit.
- Avs sign Philip Grubauer to a 5 Year, 26M extension. Personally dont love the idea of 5 years, think 3-4 would be better. But in order to keep the aav in the 5 range and not 6, the Avs go the 5 years. 5.20M cap hit.
- Avs sign Tyson Jost to a 2 Year, 2.2M contract. 1.1 aav.
Landeskog - Mackinnon - Rantanen
Burakovsky - Couturier - Newhook
Donskoi - Kadri - Nichushkin
O'Connor - Jost - Ranta
Toews - Makar
Byram - Jones
MacDonald - ???
Grubauer
Francouz
Johanson
That roster would come in at 74.175M.
Which would also mean one of two things. Either the Avs could actually keep Erik Johnson as the 3rd pairing RHD, meaning with his 6M cap hit we'd hit 80.175M leaving us just enough space for one more league minimum contract as an extra forward or Dman. Or, if the Avs buy out EJ, he carries a 2.0M cap hit for the next 4 years. Which would then mean we'd have a 76.175M cap hit for next year leaving us with roughly ~3M to spend on a 3rd pairing RHD, and another 1.8M or so to spend on a pair of extra skater(7th D and 13th forward) to fill out the roster.
Northern Avs Fan
Registered User
- May 27, 2019
- 21,970
- 29,649
I’d be good with this for sure.
If Couturier is available I’d pay heavily to get him. Hopefully they could get an extension done later, but he would be such a good fit as 2C for the Avs.
I wanted to take a while before responding to this because I was genuinely curious as to whether what you're saying here is true or not. I actually went back and watched the highlights, and I promise it wasn't for any sort of dunking purposes--that doesn't do anyone, especially me, any good--but to really see how the Avs lost in those two previous playoff exits. I must say it was quite the learning experience.
So we go any further I just want to say that it's a moot point to say the Stars won that Game 7 because they beat the Avs down low. That game 7 loss can be pinned pretty much on one, single, solitary thing: Michael. Hutchinson. Was. The. Goalie. Despite that and the fact that he was quite bad (not meant as a diss, just a fact) and had nonexistent rebound control, the Avs were also playing with a depleted roster. In fact, one of the goals against in the series was off a turnover by Sam Girard's partner in this series after Erik Johnson got injured--Kevin Connauton. Unreal that he keeps getting saddled with shitty defensive partners, but at least last year, it was unavoidable. They could've easily rectified it this yea, and chose not to.
But bottom line, the Avs were doomed the moment Grubauer went down and a clearly hobbled Frankie took the net. Looking at those highlights you can clearly see how hurt he is. No lateral movement whatsoever.
So let's focus on the SJ series. Lots of defensive breakdowns but it wasn't Pavelski (who literally played ONE GAME in this series) or even Hertl who really killed them. It was Brent Burns, who regularly swooped down from the point with no one covering him. The Avs did a much better job this season picking up on guys like that. There's a reason they went from below-average defensively that season to third-best defensively this season. FTR you aren't wrong, slot defense was a bit of an issue against SJ, but IMO the breakdowns came long before the puck came near the slot area.
Also, IMO, Grubauer was bad in this series. Not horrible, but definitely below average. Gave up a lot of snipes from the circles, including a terrible SHG from Joe Thornton moving at the speed of a drunken grandparent, and we all know the game-and-series-winning goal from Joonas Donskoi was a wraparound that he played poorly because he regularly over-commits when guarding the post (the goals he gave up to Marchessault in game 5 and Pietrangelo in game 6 were also a direct result of him overplaying a bad-angled shot and being way out of position to guard against rebounds). I noticed this year the Avs were very, very judicious about preventing wraparound attempts this year. Groob still sucks ass at them, but the Avs go out of their way to block the open crease area. The coaches obviously saw that deficiency and drilled it into the player's heads to stop those.
So I come away with some of the following thoughts after watching these high/lowlights and then comparing them to this latest playoff failure:
1. The top line remains bad defensively in the postseason. I think this only gets alleviated with better depth. Three years in a row now, the top line just gets overworked and in the postseason, they're exhausted. Also, the opposition knows you can go full bore on those guys because the Avs have no consistent scorers beyond those three. That has to change. Far and away the biggest issue plaguing the team and they've failed miserably in addressing it.
2. I am starting to think Grubauer is just...not The Guy. You need to play perfect hockey in front of him because he's average or below-average in key playoff games. Not saying DO NOT SIGN HIM or anything like that but I think they need to weigh their options.
3. A lot of lost puck battles in the slot area had nothing to do with Girard. They had to do with guys like Ian Cole, Erik Johnson, Nikita Zadorov, and yes, Patrik Nemeth. Big bodies there and they still did nothing to win those battles. It's not about personnel, it's about structure. It also has to do with poor defense from the forwards. MacKinnon was one such guy who lost the player he was covering in one such instance, but he wasn't the worst one.
4. Lastly, this was the worst showing among the three playoff exits, and after watching the recaps, I can see why. The Avs arguably had LESS depth this time around than the previous seasons. At least those other Avs teams had a 4th line that could score. Hell, even in the Nashville series in 2018, there was an effective trio of Bourque-Compher-Wilson. Bednar actually came to realize that was a huge issue but he took way too long to address it, and even so, you're simply not going to do anything effective with a center corps of MacKinnon/Jost/Compher/Bellemare. That's the worst center depth the Avs have had in this postseason thus far, and a big reason why they bowed out in six games. Against Dallas they still had Kadri, and against SJ they had Kerfoot, Jost, Brassard, and a still-effective Soderberg.
tl;dr: Avs have got to address their depth issues, and they have to decide if Grubauer should be their goalie going forward. Those are much bigger questions than slot defense or Sam Girard.
flyfysher
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2012
- 6,606
- 5,253
It would be hard for me me to move on from Girard, Timmins and Kaut. But I’m all in. I’d prefer to keep Byram over Girard.
Yeah. There was an article released about a month ago now I guess that basically said Philly was listening to all players with the only exception being Joel Farabee.
He only has a year left so I would guess they have to make a decision on him fairly soon. I also think that only having 1 year left would somewhat limit the cost to acquire him. Basically your typical 1st + Good prospect + sort of package.
But ya I'm with you if hes available I'd go hard after him. Though I'm not entirely sure if I'd want to sign him to an extension or just approach it as a rental. Mostly because he's from that same draft year as Landy meaning he's going to be turning 30 when his new contract kicks in. How long would a 6-7 year deal with him last before it starts to get ugly?
It's basically the same concerns as with Landy but at least with Landy his next contract would be starting a year earlier so you might get 4-5 good years out of him.
Plus with Landy I think that loyalty factor will drive his price range down into the 7-7.5 range. But with Couts I think it takes more like 8-9 to get him signed.
So I'd be hard after him as a 1 year rental but I'd wait and see how that year goes before potentially negotiating an extension with him. Especially if Newhook breaks out next year and looks poised to take the mantle as 2C behind Mack.
Iceberg
Registered User
- May 4, 2002
- 4,796
- 1,134
Ararana
Registered User
I'm assuming Byram ELC led to you trading Girard over him? You've been a big champion for the opposite.
For the record I love everything here and wish this was the summer Sakic had, but I question if that is enough for Couturier.
I think the disagreement lies in how much value we place in puck-moving. Girard will skate the puck through open uncontested areas of the ice but he has trouble doing anything when the ice is tight, that's why you never see him cut through the middle of the ice with the puck where the defense is usually tighter, he always skates to the outside. He lacks the quick hands and stick handling skills to handle the puck in any kind of traffic, things that Bo does possess.
The most important part of puck-moving to me is actually getting possession of the puck in the first place. You watch Graves and Girard as a pair and they just get hemmed in their own zone all the time, what good is Girard's puck moving ability there. A lot of times even when the puck is finally won back and sent to Girard he'll make a bad pass in a hurry because he's afraid of the forecheck. Even when he tries to use his lauded skating ability to get out of the pressure it's not that effective against a tight forecheck since he lacks overall speed, watch any of the clips I posted and you'll see forecheckers chasing him down all the time despite him having a few steps on them in the beginning. He's a player that is very reliant on open ice.
I think this team needs to cut down on the long cross ice stretch passes, their gameplan seems to be that as soon as a player gets puck possesion in the defensive zone then everybody immediately starts skating up the ice leaving no safe short passing options available. It then becomes an all or nothing play, if the puck happens to get through the multiple forecheckers then it becomes a odd man for and if it doesn't then it becomes odd man against. I think Makar and Timmins are the only players on the team who have the puck skills to really pull that kind of pass off consistently. If it was football it'd like if the playcalling was only having all the receivers going deep with minimum qb protection and no quick dump off options available.
The most important part of puck-moving to me is actually getting possession of the puck in the first place. You watch Graves and Girard as a pair and they just get hemmed in their own zone all the time, what good is Girard's puck moving ability there. A lot of times even when the puck is finally won back and sent to Girard he'll make a bad pass in a hurry because he's afraid of the forecheck. Even when he tries to use his lauded skating ability to get out of the pressure it's not that effective against a tight forecheck since he lacks overall speed, watch any of the clips I posted and you'll see forecheckers chasing him down all the time despite him having a few steps on them in the beginning. He's a player that is very reliant on open ice.
I think this team needs to cut down on the long cross ice stretch passes, their gameplan seems to be that as soon as a player gets puck possesion in the defensive zone then everybody immediately starts skating up the ice leaving no safe short passing options available. It then becomes an all or nothing play, if the puck happens to get through the multiple forecheckers then it becomes a odd man for and if it doesn't then it becomes odd man against. I think Makar and Timmins are the only players on the team who have the puck skills to really pull that kind of pass off consistently. If it was football it'd like if the playcalling was only having all the receivers going deep with minimum qb protection and no quick dump off options available.
I wouldn't say that necessarily... I get why people love Dach. He's incredibly projectable, if you believe he can be projected highly, you take a shot in the top 5. I just fundamentally disagree with the projection.
Me too. I think Grubi should be re-signed as he fits and isn't the risk. But Elvis would be a fan favorite immediately and he's simply better. It is a risky move though.
Thank you for playing
Just like I said there are not a lot of really good prospects that could land Jones.
And not many teams that would give their best prospect to do so.
I was more speaking on Dach than anything. People on message boards will go back and forth on value especially with Jones, but here's the thing... NHL scouts and front offices value him as a top 5-10 defensemen. They'll pay like he's a top 5-10 defensemen. One that needs a new contract that pays, but an elite player for a season and maybe more.
Tampa is going to come forward with a huge offer. It won't be prospects, but Columbus could end up with a downgrade on defense to get a top 4D and a top 6/9C in a hockey trade if they wanted.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
- 85,990
- 35,530
There's probably something to this Jones/LA connection. Portzline put them at the top of the list back when this story first broke, Kypreos mentioned them as well because he spends time there in the offseason, and today Friedman said there's a sense he wants a big stage and also brought up the Kings.
Why are we talking about Dach? He was intriguing as a prospect with his some of his stickhandling highlights but the lack of production was always a worry. He turned out better than expected at the nhl level since he actually put in consistent effort every game, but he's still pretty overhyped at this point. Ryjo is the appropriate comparison for him, clearly talented but not as effective as he should be. Just not that much of a threat on offense despite his skills, even his puck protection is really that good if he's facing the boards, it really only works if he's skating away from the net.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
- 85,990
- 35,530
I'm not sure but there's probably more than a few. He's good and on a cheap contract.
That makes more sense for them than Eichel--I could see that happening.
Yup... they have a real lack of top end D coming up. Bjornfot, Grans, and Faber are solid prospects but not top of the lineup guys. Spence is one of my favorite darkhorse prospects, but Jones immediately changes their defense from below average to good in one move.
Krejci's old ass can still play that role. I think RNH is a winger, but he might get a center role somewhere if he tests the market. Then it gets to basically a no. Wennberg and Stastny exist and were close to that level this year, but I don't think you can really count on them being 2s.
- Apr 25, 2006
- 53,487
- 59,360
Yea RNH is good but represents exactly what we are trying to get away from + he'll want as much as Danault.
Wennberg sucks and the other 2 are too old.
We're keeping Kadri I'm afraid.
It depends. Alexander Wennberg was signed to a one-year "prove it" deal in Florida after Lumbus bought him out and he did quite well for them--29 points in 56 games. Got bumped down to 3C once Bennett showed up, don't know if they're keeping him. He's very talented, drives play quite well, but horrid defensively and a bit of a perimeter guy. Probably more of a third liner than a legit second line center, but...you asked.
There's also this Stastny guy I heard once played for Colorado...
If go all in on Danault and bump down Kadri with the hope to have Newhook taking Kadri’s role from him during the season.
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
- 52,957
- 32,824
Yeah I think you're right about Minny and maybe Columbus being the favorites. I'm just talking about from the Avs perspective. I don't know if the Avs are high on his list of preferred destinations but he might still be high on the list for the Avs.
I think both Wennberg or Stastny would be fine, hopefully just short-term deals are enough to entice either guy.
It's more about roster flexibility, just a guy who provides proper scoring depth and a reliable option at 3C, who can play 2C in a pinch. Closest the Avs have EVER had to that in the Bednar Era is Soderberg. And he never got to be that guy because he was too busy being the team's 2nd-best center.
Stastny is no longer a star IMO, but he should be fine. He doesn't play an overtly physical game, nor is his game predicated on speed. He's still smart defensively and *gasp* kicked major ass in the faceoff department. Wennberg could possibly be an economical short-term solution to provide scoring depth, can't win faceoffs but I'm not too worried about that.
Avs have a couple options available to them next season Kadri and Newhook can both play center, I'd probably put one of those guys on the wing to start the season. Then if Newhook takes over the 2C role, you can either keep Kadri and let him walk at season's end, or flip him at the deadline (unlikely, but an option at least). But at least if you sign a decent veteran to shore up the depth chart there isn't an undue amount of pressure on Newhook, and the team is better able to withstand Kadri's inevitable slumps.
RNH IMO is going to be too expensive.
I'm guessing after this, no way in hell is Danault leaving--Montreal is gonna give him what he wants.
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
Beanpot Boston University vs Harvard - TD Garden, BostonWagers: 1Staked: $100.00Event closes - 3 days from now- Updated:
-
Beanpot Boston College vs Northeastern - TD Garden, BostonWagers: 1Staked: $100.00Event closes - 3 days from now- Updated:
-
Super Bowl LIX Kansas City Chiefs vs Philadelphia Eagles - New OrleansWagers: 9Staked: $50,121.00Event closes - 9 days from now- Updated: