Rumor: 2020-21 Trade Rumours and FA Part VIII: Intra-Playoff Edition?

[Pokecheque]

Defense is the far bigger priority than centers IMO.

Even though Kadri had a subpar season with a bad finish, I have a hard time believing that won't motivate him to have a great season next year. He's still a prideful guy. Add on top that it's his contract year and I think it would be a big mistake to move him, because you'd be giving away a guy that's set up to possibly have a career year.

Newhook and Jost should be serviceable bottom six centers and if they find out they need to upgrade those roles, they're the kind of deadline moves you can make without giving up the farm.

Defense though is where nearly all the game losing mistakes came from. Specifically Nemeth and Graves because they were playing higher in the depth chart than they should, because the Avs needed some bigger defenseman to deal with the Knights forecheck.

Priority number 1 needs to be bringing in a a legit top 4 D man with size that also has the mobility to play Bednar's system better than Graves or Nemeth.

Seth Jones fits that to a tee. Unfortunately they might have to move G to get him. Moving Byram doesn't make any sense. He can do basically everything G does, just with a bit different style, and better defense. They'll also need Byram's cheap ELC the next two years and they can probably bridge him after that, making him very reasonably priced for about 4 years.

Just look at the left side of this shot heat map from the AVS-VGK series. Look at all those goals in front of the net. This is where they needed EJ or another big physical defenseman that's better than Graves/Nemeth and who could make life tougher for the Vegas forwards than Girard, Toews, and Makar did. It was just way too easy for them physically down low all series.

All due respect, that doesn’t tell the whole story. The Avs don’t defend that way. They defend by securing the puck and getting it out of the zone quickly. A lot of instances where those goals went in was because a battle was lost in the corner for the puck or someone was way outta position and covering no one.

If people really want the Avs to do what Vegas did it’s gonna be a wholesale change to their approach. It’s not something they can really do. It’d be way more than just swapping out one smallish defenseman. It would require a lot more than that to truly adopt that sort of defensive scheme.

 

[flyfysher]

All due respect, that doesn’t tell the whole story. The Avs don’t defend that way. They defend by securing the puck and getting it out of the zone quickly. A lot of instances where those goals went in was because a battle was lost in the corner for the puck or someone was way outta position and covering no one.

If people really want the Avs to do what Vegas did it’s gonna be a wholesale change to their approach. It’s not something they can really do. It’d be way more than just swapping out one smallish defenseman. It would require a lot more than that to truly adopt that sort of defensive scheme.

The other players were paralyzed because they were waiting for the puck to be passed off to them. They’re supposed to be ready to receive it. You’re criticizing them for not being undisciplined and not reacting. Sorry but Girard couldn’t execute that breakout by securing the puck and that’s problematic.

 

[Pokecheque]

The other players were paralyzed because they were waiting for the puck to be passed off to them. They’re supposed to be ready to receive it. You’re criticizing them for not being undisciplined and not reacting. Sorry but Girard couldn’t execute that breakout by securing the puck and that’s problematic.

If the other players were standing around waiting for the puck to be passed to them then that’s a much bigger issue.

 

[Freudian]

Jones is going to ask for at least $9M/year, so why are we talking about him?

 

[Pokecheque]

Jones is going to ask for at least $9M/year, so why are we talking about him?

I’ve been wondering that myself.

 

[flyfysher]

If the other players were standing around waiting for the puck to be passed to them then that’s a much bigger issue.

It goes both ways. If they do and then get caught out of position then that’s a problem. It goes back to the original sin, failure to secure the puck, and not a subsequent one. Mind you, Girard had no problem securing and transitioning the puck all season long. When he was out, the Avs transition game suffered. So it’s not like I don’t see value in Girard. But I’m being very realistic and pragmatic about his deficiency in securing the puck when facing a heavy forecheck.

 

[SoftMittsHardSticks]

Something that has really sunk in for me recently is just how inexperienced our D-Core is, especially without Johnson. Here is the list of defensemen by games played:

Erik Johnson: 780 GP
Patrik Nemeth (regrettably): 366 GP
Sam Girard: 273 GP
Devon Toews: 169 GP
Ryan Graves: 149 GP
Cale Makar: 101 GP
Jacob MacDonald: 35 GP
Conor Timmins: 33 GP

To put that into perspective, the current D-Core that the Avs deployed this season with Johnson out now has 760 games played between them, still 23 games less than Johnson's career total.

We already know that Johnson can't be depended on to be in the lineup through the season. So the fact that people are talking about trading Girard, our 2nd most (and with Johnson out, our MOST) experienced defenseman, and expecting yet another rookie in Byram to fill in is playing with fire in my opinion.

Hot take: Sakic will bank on the inexperienced D-Core that gave the Avs undeniable success for most of the season being even better next year after having one more year of experience in the regular season and playoffs.

 

[Murzu]

Jones is going to ask for at least $9M/year, so why are we talking about him?

I don't think he can ask 9M/year after the season(s) he has had. I'd imagine he could be close to ~8M/year to re-sign.

 

[Hasbro]

Jones is going to ask for at least $9M/year, so why are we talking about him?

I’d pay rental for him, but trade and contract for him long term would be a schlep.

 

[Foppa2118]

All due respect, that doesn’t tell the whole story. The Avs don’t defend that way. They defend by securing the puck and getting it out of the zone quickly. A lot of instances where those goals went in was because a battle was lost in the corner for the puck or someone was way outta position and covering no one.

If people really want the Avs to do what Vegas did it’s gonna be a wholesale change to their approach. It’s not something they can really do. It’d be way more than just swapping out one smallish defenseman. It would require a lot more than that to truly adopt that sort of defensive scheme.

What's not how they defend? The front of the net? Where the majority of the Knights goals came from?

Just because you're good at skating the puck out of the D zone quickly, doesn't mean you can get away with being bad at defending the front of the net. Especially in the playoffs.

Which we just saw proof of agaisnt Vegas.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Pretty clear cut story right?

Avs couldn't get to the dirty areas for greasy goals enough, and to an even greater degree, the Avs couldn't defend the front of the net at all from giving up greasy goals.

Makes any necessary changes, whether it's personnel, or more emphasis on strategy (mostly with regard to the O zone) pretty obvious.

I think you nailed it here. We are trying to win games by playing finesse play. It's tough in playoffs. You need to score few dirty suckers and defend like crazy your own net.

 

[Iceberg]

Getting Jones (or Eichel or Reinhart) is unrealistic because Sakic doesn't have the balls to get it done. He couldn't pull the trigger at the deadline.

Maybe next year, after another early playoff exit, and Mack going into his last season without an extension, will push Sakic to finally take action.

 

[Belgican]

32 in his last two.

55 in his last 6 seasons, hardly injury prone

 

[EdAVSfan]

One guy sat in the press box, and the other was a direct cause of at least 3 goals in the second round… and should have been in the press box

Sakic went shopping in the bargain bin instead of really making a push. Look what the Islanders did at the deadline, and look where they’re currently at.

True, but then look at Toronto with Foligno. Or the Bruins with Taylor Hall.
Meanwhile, Vegas went for Janmark.

some teams made big acquisitions and it worked. Some did and it didn’t.
Some made small acquisitions and it worked, som did and it didn’t.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don’t get why you think this net-front thing is so important. Getting Seth Jones is not going to magically fix this perceived issue. And trading a 23-year-old player who’s been trending up for a 27-year-old player who’s been trending WAY down because…you want the crease cleared?

Vegas defends the net front area well because of their system, not necessarily because of their personnel. If you’re wanting more net-front defense then you’re asking for a different system than what the Avs run. This team is built around Makar, Girard, and Toews.

I think the Avs two previous playoff elimination rounds are the best examples of why this is a problem. The Dallas series more so than the Vegas series (I think Vegas being an amazing hockey team is the biggest reason they lost) but I definitely think the Avs net front defending has been painful. EJ’s presence I feel has definitely been missed there.

 

[Peter Peckerwood]

I don't think he can ask 9M/year after the season(s) he has had. I'd imagine he could be close to ~8M/year to re-sign.

Agreed he's not getting Makar money in Colorado or near it, no matter how bad he may want to be an Av. Even if the Avs move a couple of salaries to sign him, I would rather see a cheaper Dman and use money elsewhere.

 

[Avaholic29]

55 in his last 6 seasons, hardly injury prone

EJ is injury prone lets be honest with ourselves.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

EJ is injury prone lets be honest with ourselves.

His playstyle caught up with him. The guy played balls to the wall style for years.

 

[dahrougem2]

I don’t get why you think this net-front thing is so important. Getting Seth Jones is not going to magically fix this perceived issue. And trading a 23-year-old player who’s been trending up for a 27-year-old player who’s been trending WAY down because…you want the crease cleared?

Vegas defends the net front area well because of their system, not necessarily because of their personnel. If you’re wanting more net-front defense then you’re asking for a different system than what the Avs run. This team is built around Makar, Girard, and Toews.

All due respect, that doesn’t tell the whole story. The Avs don’t defend that way. They defend by securing the puck and getting it out of the zone quickly. A lot of instances where those goals went in was because a battle was lost in the corner for the puck or someone was way outta position and covering no one.

If people really want the Avs to do what Vegas did it’s gonna be a wholesale change to their approach. It’s not something they can really do. It’d be way more than just swapping out one smallish defenseman. It would require a lot more than that to truly adopt that sort of defensive scheme.

But the Avs don't have the puck 100% of the time, and you don't think teams have clearly figured out how to score on the Avs in the playoffs? San Jose did. Dallas did. Vegas did. All three teams got pucks to the point, floated them towards the net and had their bigger forwards out-battle our defensemen who couldn't box them out and put the puck in the net. Yes we try to get to pucks quickly and get it out, but when the other team inevitably gets the puck they have one thing on their mind: pucks to the point, shots on goal and send bodies to overpower Makar/Girard types.

To me, there are two solutions:
1) Stop collapsing the wingers. If you want to prevent these from happening, the forwards need to be playing very tight to the point so that the only option defensemen have is to put it back in the corner.

2) Get bigger defensemen. This doesn't mean get Erik Gudbranson, but someone like Seth Jones even if it costs Samuel Girard would help tremendously in this regard. Plus, I think Bo Byram is ready for that top-4 role on the 2nd pairing next season. Putting Jones alongside him would be fantastic for his game IMO.

 

[redacted]

Jones is going to really surprise some people next year when he's a Norris finalist in Dallas.

 

[dahrougem2]

Also, I don't know how anyone can look at Samuel Girard and think "best all around defensemen" for our club. If we're taking everything into consideration, both Makar and Toews for me are clearly better.

 

[redacted]

The low dollar guy I'd like to add is Murphy from the Hawks. I imagine the Avs will have to get some lower dollar guys to build up the depth. Murphy has just a year left and Chicago could retain. He's a bigger guy (not overly physical), who can skate, make a first pass, and is good in board battles. He can get lost in his own zone a bit and isn't the best net front guy (better than any of the Avs top 4 still), but his puck retrieval and puck battle win rate are high.

 

[duckbear]

Jones on Colorado would be a whole different animal. Anyone looking at his adv stats on CLB and thinking this guy isn't an upgrade on Girard (or at the very least an upgrade in that he provides different attributes that we currently lack) needs to give their head a shake. You have two playoff series of watching Girard play. Stop looking at his regular season adv stats, they mean nothing in the playoffs. Literally nothing. The adv stats in the regular season might as well be his performance in a watermelon eating contest for how they translate to the playoffs. Its entirely different game. Apples vs Oranges. Cycling vs MMA.

Also, there is no way Jones gets more than the Pietrangelo contract, and Colorado could probably get him for a little less based on the last couple years. Think 8y x 6-8m range.

That said, I don't like some of the other names being thrown around (like Larsson).

 

[duckbear]

Getting Jones (or Eichel or Reinhart) is unrealistic because Sakic doesn't have the balls to get it done. He couldn't pull the trigger at the deadline.

This is probably true. I get that Sakic wants mega-value in his trades, and we don't really know what was/wasn't on the table at the trade deadline. Maybe staying put made sense based on the offers, but it certainly feels like he just wouldn't pull the trigger and there is a possibility he cost us a cup because of it.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Jones is going to really surprise some people next year when he's a Norris finalist in Dallas.

He’s so so good.

I’ve never seen the analytical people (which I’m one of btw) be more wrong about a hockey player. Imagine constantly calling a defenseman “bad” when never over the course of that “bad” season did his fan base ever say “wtf Jones” or “Jones strikes again”. He literally looked like he has every year. If Columbus as a team had any capability of transitioning the puck forward people would be calling him a top 10 D.