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Rumor: 2020-21 Trade Rumours and FA Part VIII: Intra-Playoff Edition?

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Cousin Eddie said:
He’s so so good.

I’ve never seen the analytical people (which I’m one of btw) be more wrong about a hockey player. Imagine constantly calling a defenseman “bad” when never over the course of that “bad” season did his fan base ever say “wtf Jones” or “Jones strikes again”. He literally looked like he has every year. If Columbus as a team had any capability of transitioning the puck forward people would be calling him a top 10 D.
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In a way, I kinda see it like Hedman in Tampa. People have railed on Hedman for the last part of the year calling him overrated, slipping, living off his past, only good on the power play, etc... yet watch him in the playoffs, and I'm even more confident that he's the best defensemen in the league and I'm not sure it is really that close. He's been a complete beast. Jones is the lesser version of that.
 
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Cousin Eddie said:
He’s so so good.

I’ve never seen the analytical people (which I’m one of btw) be more wrong about a hockey player. Imagine constantly calling a defenseman “bad” when never over the course of that “bad” season did his fan base ever say “wtf Jones” or “Jones strikes again”. He literally looked like he has every year. If Columbus as a team had any capability of transitioning the puck forward people would be calling him a top 10 D.
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I think @Foppa2118 made a good point that his advanced stats look to have been directly affected by the state of the team as well. I guess I just don’t see how Jones playing with either Toews or Byram/Girard would be a cause for concern. I mean the chances of him becoming an Av are slim to none but there couldn’t be a better EJ replacement if you wanted.
 
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I don’t know about Hedman. Over the last year I think his game has become much more tilted to the offensive side than people admit.

Which is fine, because he’s among the best offensive denfenceman in the league, so he’s still a top defenceman. His defensive game has dropped off though imo.

On Jones, I do think he’ll bounce back when he gets a fresh start with a new team. His game is versatile enough that he can thrive in a lot of different systems. I don’t think his puck movement is even close to Girard’s, but he’s better defensively, at least from what I’ve seen in the playoffs.

It would be such a Dallas move to double down on an already strong defence, but maybe they feel Roberston’s emergence has eased some of the scoring concerns.
 
The Abusement Park said:
I think @Foppa2118 made a good point that his advanced stats look to have been directly affected by the state of the team as well. I guess I just don’t see how Jones playing with either Toews or Byram/Girard would be a cause for concern. I mean the chances of him becoming an Av are slim to none but there couldn’t be a better EJ replacement if you wanted.
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I think it’s important to know Jones’ role. He’s essentially Werenski’s Slavin. He’s not as good as Slavin defensively. But that’s the role he plays. However Werenski is no Hamilton. Werenski is a great offensive defenseman but that offense has to be generated in the offensive zone which is an area of the ice the Jackets don’t really play in. Werenski’s transition game is quite dull relative to other offensive defenseman.

Imagine Seth Jones being the deep guy on a pairing with Girard for example. He does the dirty work, goes D to D and Girard transitions up ice. It would be insane.

I miss Mike Kelly’s website he launched. He was giving nightly updates of stats we don’t have access to and every night Seth Jones was one of his top performers when it comes to puck battles won, puck retrieval’s, denied exits and blocked d zone passes. Those are the defensive stats that matter to a defense first defenseman. I know everybody loves the % stats and I do too but it doesn’t measure defense and I’m adamant on that. Cale Makar is not close to being the best defensive defenseman in the league as the stats kinda point to. He’s good defensively, but those stats are largely inflated by Cale Makar having the puck and simply not allowing the other team to do anything because of that. Don’t get me wrong that’s a positive thing, but it’s not a measure of “defense”. Seth Jones does the things that make somebody good “defensively”.
 
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Cousin Eddie said:
I think it’s important to know Jones’ role. He’s essentially Werenski’s Slavin. He’s not as good as Slavin defensively. But that’s the role he plays. However Werenski is no Hamilton. Werenski is a great offensive defenseman but that offense has to be generated in the offensive zone which is an area of the ice the Jackets don’t really play in. Werenski’s transition game is quite dull relative to other offensive defenseman.

Imagine Seth Jones being the deep guy on a pairing with Girard for example. He does the dirty work, goes D to D and Girard transitions up ice. It would be insane.
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Yeah I mean either you trade Byram for Jones and he plays with Girard or you trade Girard for him and he gets to play with Byram who looks like another transition wizard in the making. The fit with Jones is so perfect and I would love to find a way to make it happen.
 
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The Avs could absolutely use some more physicality on defense but I also don't think that heat map tells the entire story. Half of Vegas' goals that show up around the net were probably off of odd man rushes and careless turnovers rather than a result of being unable to handle physical play around the net.

I like Jones and would love him on the Avs but I also wouldn't give up Girard or Byram for him because of his current contract status and even his potential big extension, which would be tough for the Avs to afford.
 
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Ararana said:
All I know is the Avs game plan appears to be to go through the entire 2013 first round. So either Jones or Barkov come on down :sarcasm:

Jokes aside Barkov is a UFA after next season. I'd burn so much shit down to get that guy behind MacKinnon on our center depth.
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Barkov would be a dream. The price to get him would probably destroy the team though :laugh:
 
henchman24 said:
The low dollar guy I'd like to add is Murphy from the Hawks. I imagine the Avs will have to get some lower dollar guys to build up the depth. Murphy has just a year left and Chicago could retain. He's a bigger guy (not overly physical), who can skate, make a first pass, and is good in board battles. He can get lost in his own zone a bit and isn't the best net front guy (better than any of the Avs top 4 still), but his puck retrieval and puck battle win rate are high.
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Sounds like Ryan Graves if a Hawks fan watched him.
 
henchman24 said:
The low dollar guy I'd like to add is Murphy from the Hawks. I imagine the Avs will have to get some lower dollar guys to build up the depth. Murphy has just a year left and Chicago could retain. He's a bigger guy (not overly physical), who can skate, make a first pass, and is good in board battles. He can get lost in his own zone a bit and isn't the best net front guy (better than any of the Avs top 4 still), but his puck retrieval and puck battle win rate are high.
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This guy gets bodied every time I watch the Hawks play. Incredibly soft defenseman for his size.
 
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dahrougem2 said:
This guy gets bodied every time I watch the Hawks play. Incredibly soft defenseman for his size.
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Will fit right in.
"We are not that kind of team".

The softest guy in the league pound for pound has to be Burakovsky though.
 
Balthazar said:
Will fit right in.
"We are not that kind of team".

The softest guy in the league pound for pound has to be Burakovsky though.
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Couldn't disagree more.

Soft players disengage when the going gets tough. Does Burakovsky struggle to win his share of board battles? Yes.

But the guy does not disengage. He takes hits to make plays offensively all the time. Look at the hit he took in the 1st round vs St. Louis that led to the Rantanen/Kadri 2-on-0, or the hit he took in game 5 vs Vegas that led to the Jost/Nemeth 3-on-1 flub.

We all wish he'd do more physically because of his size but by no means is this guy soft.
 
dahrougem2 said:
Couldn't disagree more.

Soft players disengage when the going gets tough. Does Burakovsky struggle to win his share of board battles? Yes.

But the guy does not disengage. He takes hits to make plays offensively all the time. Look at the hit he took in the 1st round vs St. Louis that led to the Rantanen/Kadri 2-on-0, or the hit he took in game 5 vs Vegas that led to the Jost/Nemeth 3-on-1 flub.

We all wish he'd do more physically because of his size but by no means is this guy soft.
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He was absolutely soft against Vegas though. No player on the Avs, not even Girard, would rather just give the puck away than take a hit like Burakovsky did. It wasn't about taking a big hit along the boards either, there were numerous examples of him entering the o-zone and then just throwing the puck in open space when he'd see someone coming. What makes it even worse it that he's like 6'3" and repeatedly did that ****. He was awful despite what his analytics might suggest.

Thoughts, @RoyIsALegend?
 
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Avs_19 said:
He was absolutely soft against Vegas though. No player on the Avs, not even Girard, would rather just give the puck away than take a hit like Burakovsky did. It wasn't about taking a big hit along the boards either, there were numerous examples of him entering the o-zone and then just throwing the puck in open space when he'd see someone coming. What makes it even worse it that he's like 6'3" and repeatedly did that ****. He was awful despite what his analytics might suggest.

Thoughts, @RoyIsALegend?
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So what is he supposed to do when he is about to be checked? Just take an open ice hit or try to deke the man out?

Jesus man. Dump and chase is part of the game yet you blame Bura for doing that.
 
Avs_19 said:
He was absolutely soft against Vegas though. No player on the Avs, not even Girard, would rather just give the puck away than take a hit like Burakovsky did. It wasn't about taking a big hit along the boards either, there were numerous examples of him entering the o-zone and then just throwing the puck in open space when he'd see someone coming. What makes it even worse it that he's like 6'3" and repeatedly did that ****. He was awful despite what his analytics might suggest.

Thoughts, @RoyIsALegend?
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Instead of getting his body involved on those board battles he stood 4 feet away trying to pick at the puck with his stick and failed everytime.
 
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