Rumor: 2020-21 Trade Rumours and FA Part VIII: Intra-Playoff Edition?

[The Kingslayer]

It is where Jones wants to be, teams had room and a need for him, and they have the assets to pull off a deal.

Damn hope not. If Jones isn't in Denver I hope he ends up in a place like Florida or New York.

 

[redacted]

Damn hope not. If Jones isn't in Denver I hope he ends up in a place like Florida or New York.

You must really want Tampa to win the next 5 Cups.

(BTW Tampa is gonna make a run at him Serg ++)

 

[The Kingslayer]

You must really want Tampa to win the next 5 Cups.

(BTW Tampa is gonna make a run at him Serg ++)

I like the way teams like Tampa and Vegas are aggressive when it comes to players they want. They don't dick around.

 

[Pokecheque]

What's not how they defend? The front of the net? Where the majority of the Knights goals came from?

Just because you're good at skating the puck out of the D zone quickly, doesn't mean you can get away with being bad at defending the front of the net. Especially in the playoffs.

Which we just saw proof of agaisnt Vegas.

No doubt they need to be better in a variety of aspects, but they usually defend by winning battles outside the slot and getting the puck out. I argue that they did a whole bunch of other things wrong long before the puck ended up in the slot area for a lot of those goals. Way too many board battles lost, especially by #s 24 and 27, not to mention some insanely dumb turnovers by a LOT of players, not just those two.

Yes, the slot-area defense needs to improve. My point is that is not the root issue.

 

[Pokecheque]

But the Avs don't have the puck 100% of the time, and you don't think teams have clearly figured out how to score on the Avs in the playoffs? San Jose did. Dallas did. Vegas did. All three teams got pucks to the point, floated them towards the net and had their bigger forwards out-battle our defensemen who couldn't box them out and put the puck in the net. Yes we try to get to pucks quickly and get it out, but when the other team inevitably gets the puck they have one thing on their mind: pucks to the point, shots on goal and send bodies to overpower Makar/Girard types.

To me, there are two solutions:
1) Stop collapsing the wingers. If you want to prevent these from happening, the forwards need to be playing very tight to the point so that the only option defensemen have is to put it back in the corner.

2) Get bigger defensemen. This doesn't mean get Erik Gudbranson, but someone like Seth Jones even if it costs Samuel Girard would help tremendously in this regard. Plus, I think Bo Byram is ready for that top-4 role on the 2nd pairing next season. Putting Jones alongside him would be fantastic for his game IMO.

Avs rely on a lot of puck support down low and short passes to break the puck out of the zone. I know that leads to some instances where they get trapped in their own zone but during the regular season it resulted in a lot more clean zone exits (and entrances with speed) than it did that scenario. So in essence the wingers kinda need to collapse.

If there's one thing that drives me nuts when the Avs get in a little trouble, it's the lazy clearing attempt right where the blue line meets the boards. So often that gets cut off when their defensemen play aggressively. One adjustment I wish to hell Bednar would try is sending his forwards out a little farther and chipping it over the defensemen. It would lead to a lot of odd-man rushes if executed properly and would force the opposition to back out, which plays right into how the Avs like to play to begin with. No one was better at doing this than the Cup-era Kings, and no single player was better at the long-distance chip pass than Anze Kopitar. I wish the Avs would try making some more odd-man rushes and maybe get behind defenses a little more--but it might not be so easy with defenders who aren't big and can't necessarily win those 1-on-1 battles. I still think they could stretch defenses a little better.

Lastly, I'm not so sure the Sharks "figured out" how to score on the Avs, and the only thing the Stars figured out is that the Avs' goaltending sucked donkey balls with a hurt Frankie and Hutchinson simply not up to the task. Both instances the Avs were ONE GOAL away from advancing. Again, it comes down to depth--they have got to find reliable scoring beyond the top line. Way too many muffed opportunities from guys like Compher and Jost. It's not just about preventing goals (obviously that's important too), they gotta find a way to score more and not rely as much on the top line.

 

[dahrougem2]

Avs rely on a lot of puck support down low and short passes to break the puck out of the zone. I know that leads to some instances where they get trapped in their own zone but during the regular season it resulted in a lot more clean zone exits (and entrances with speed) than it did that scenario. So in essence the wingers kinda need to collapse.

If there's one thing that drives me nuts when the Avs get in a little trouble, it's the lazy clearing attempt right where the blue line meets the boards. So often that gets cut off when their defensemen play aggressively. One adjustment I wish to hell Bednar would try is sending his forwards out a little farther and chipping it over the defensemen. It would lead to a lot of odd-man rushes if executed properly and would force the opposition to back out, which plays right into how the Avs like to play to begin with. No one was better at doing this than the Cup-era Kings, and no single player was better at the long-distance chip pass than Anze Kopitar. I wish the Avs would try making some more odd-man rushes and maybe get behind defenses a little more--but it might not be so easy with defenders who aren't big and can't necessarily win those 1-on-1 battles. I still think they could stretch defenses a little better.

Lastly, I'm not so sure the Sharks "figured out" how to score on the Avs, and the only thing the Stars figured out is that the Avs' goaltending sucked donkey balls with a hurt Frankie and Hutchinson simply not up to the task. Both instances the Avs were ONE GOAL away from advancing. Again, it comes down to depth--they have got to find reliable scoring beyond the top line. Way too many muffed opportunities from guys like Compher and Jost. It's not just about preventing goals (obviously that's important too), they gotta find a way to score more and not rely as much on the top line.

I guess we agree to disagree. When I watch back the Sharks, Stars and Golden Knights series' I see three teams that put pucks towards the goal and told their big bodied forwards to go to work on Makar/Girard/Barrie/etc. I mean look at game 7 vs San Jose both the Pavelski and Hertl goals were results of big bodied forwards going to work. Game 7 vs Dallas 4 of their 5 goals in the game were big bodies going to work on our defensemen down low and getting what they wanted. It's just a common theme year after year after year and it needs to be rectified somehow.

 

[Avs_19]

I mentioned him before and I'll ask again, what about Tatar to replace Saad? He shouldn't be cheaper based on his production and analytics but this weird playoffs for him compared to Saad lighting it up could mean he is. The rumour was he was the Avs target when Bergevin was scouting them non-stop last year and you know the analytics staff will absolutely love him. Oh and Tatar, whose only 5'10" and 182 lbs, would've been fourth on the Avs in hits last season if you're into that sort of thing.

Tatar:

Shots:

Goals:

Saad:

Shots:

Goals:

 

[Balthazar]

When I watch back the Sharks, Stars and Golden Knights series' I see three teams that put pucks towards the goal and told their big bodied forwards to go to work on Makar/Girard/Barrie/etc.

And we all knew beforehand that it would be plan A for these teams as well. Put as much pressure as possible on our defense and watch our whole game plan collapse.

 

[Balthazar]

I mentioned him before and I'll ask again, what about Tatar to replace Saad?

Tatar right now is a healthy scratch for a team that can't score goals. He was also a healthy scratch in the playoffs for Vegas a few years ago. That's a bit disturbing.

That said, for his point production he should be dirt cheap in the next offseason. I'd not be against him as a last resort top 6er on a 2X4M sort of deal.

However, I do think that him and Bura on the same line would be too much softness, especially if we replace Kadri for someone like Reinhart.

 

[dahrougem2]

I mentioned him before and I'll ask again, what about Tatar to replace Saad? He shouldn't be cheaper based on his production and analytics but this weird playoffs for him compared to Saad lighting it up could mean he is. The rumour was he was the Avs target when Bergevin was scouting them non-stop last year and you know the analytics staff will absolutely love him. Oh and Tatar, whose only 5'10" and 182 lbs, would've been fourth on the Avs in hits last season if you're into that sort of thing.

Tatar:

Shots:

Goals:

Saad:

Shots:

Goals:

I'm 100% expecting Tatar to be a member of this team after free agency. Been linked to the Avs forever, and a prime candidate for bargain bin shopping in free agency which we know Sakic loves to do.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I mentioned him before and I'll ask again, what about Tatar to replace Saad? He shouldn't be cheaper based on his production and analytics but this weird playoffs for him compared to Saad lighting it up could mean he is. The rumour was he was the Avs target when Bergevin was scouting them non-stop last year and you know the analytics staff will absolutely love him. Oh and Tatar, whose only 5'10" and 182 lbs, would've been fourth on the Avs in hits last season if you're into that sort of thing.

Tatar:

Shots:

Goals:

Saad:

Shots:

Goals:

Clearly, that big deal that was rumoured was the Avs trying to get Danault and Tatar to immediately give us a competent line. Sakic will get it done this off-season.

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Tatar-Danault-Reinhart
Saad-Kadri-Burakovsky
Nuke-Jost-LOC

Salary Cap: doesn't matter!

 

[Pokecheque]

I mentioned him before and I'll ask again, what about Tatar to replace Saad? He shouldn't be cheaper based on his production and analytics but this weird playoffs for him compared to Saad lighting it up could mean he is. The rumour was he was the Avs target when Bergevin was scouting them non-stop last year and you know the analytics staff will absolutely love him. Oh and Tatar, whose only 5'10" and 182 lbs, would've been fourth on the Avs in hits last season if you're into that sort of thing.

Tatar:

Shots:

Goals:

Saad:

Shots:

Goals:

He's what I kinda wished Jost was. Not big, not fast, but tough as nails and his hockey sense is off the charts. Certainly a decent option if they can't keep Saad, but he's not a huge producer. I would hope they're still trying to upgrade at center in some fashion even if this happens.

But yes, one thing the Avs seem to lack is high hockey-IQ types. This would be an upgrade in that department at least.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

And we all knew beforehand that it would be plan A for these teams as well. Put as much pressure as possible on our defense and watch our whole game plan collapse.

This seems to be what lots of people circle back to, but I think it’s down the list on reasons why they’ve lost in the playoffs.

- Against San Jose, the Avs had no forward depth. That was the clear cut weakness of that team.

- Against Dallas, Colorado was playing with a backup and 3rd string goaltender.

- Against Vegas… I think there’s a variety of reasons why they lost. Yes, they had poor performances from three defenceman, but also didn’t get consistent enough production from MacKinnon. Not to mention they were missing a second line centre, EJ, and Byram. Grubauer also shit the bed as the series went on. And Vegas is just a damn good team too, so credit to them.

 

[Avs_19]

He's what I kinda wished Jost was. Not big, not fast, but tough as nails and his hockey sense is off the charts. Certainly a decent option if they can't keep Saad, but he's not a huge producer. I would hope they're still trying to upgrade at center in some fashion even if this happens.

But yes, one thing the Avs seem to lack is high hockey-IQ types. This would be an upgrade in that department at least.

The playoff production leaves a lot to be desired so that might be something to be concerned about but in the regular season he has averaged 23 goals and 61 points per/82 over the last three years. That's great production.

 

[Balthazar]

Eichel trade talks heating up according the Lebrun.

Girard + Newhook + Burakovky for Eichel 2M retained.

That's by far the best package they'd get.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Eichel trade talks heating up according the Lebrun.

Girard + Newhook + Burakovky for Eichel 2M retained.

That's by far the best package they'd get.

The Avs have discussed this offer with Buffalo?

 

[Balthazar]

The Avs have discussed this offer with Buffalo?

No that's what I'd offer and I don't think it gets beat.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Eichel trade talks heating up according the Lebrun.

Girard + Newhook + Burakovky for Eichel 2M retained.

That's by far the best package they'd get.

I feel like the Rangers and Kings could make significantly bigger future packages than the Avs could afford to. With how stupid lucky the Rangers have been as of late, they could reasonably offer up Kakko and Lafreniere in a package and not be too hurt by it.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Lando(7.0)-Mac(6.3)-Rant(9.25)
Jost(2.5)-Eichel(9.0*)-Saad(5.8)
Bowers(.925)-Stastny(2.5)-Kaut(.863)
O”Conner(.725)-Tynan(.800)-Ranta(.925)

Makar(9.25)-Toews(4.1)
Jones(2.7*)-Girard(5.0)
Timmins(1.25)-Nemeth(1.0)

Grubauer(6.5)
Johansson(.900)

Bench:
McDonald(.725
Roster Size: 23
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Cap Hit: $83,313,333
Cap Space: -$1,813,333

Good god, that roster has so little depth it hurts. It's an injury away from absolute garbage being regularly in the lineup.

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Avs:
Jones at 2.7 million (jackets retain 50%)

Jackets:
Bryam
Kadri
3rd Round Pick 2022(if Avs re-sign Jones)

Avs:
Eichel (Buffalo Retains 2 million)
Sabers 2nd Round Pick 2022

Sabers
Newhook
Bura
Girard
Avs 1st Round Pick 2021


Lando-Mac-Rant
Jost-Eichel-Saad
Nuke-Compher-X
O’Conner-X-X

Towes-Makar
Timmins-Jones
Y-Johnson

Grubauer
Z

X=Kaut, Bowers,Tynan, Ranta, UFA?
Y=UFA,McDonald, Prospect
Z=UFA, Goalie in System

lot of what if’s, Kadri has to agree to go, Donskoi or Graves go to Seattle, other is traded as well for cap reasons. All in baby!

 

[shadow1]

I mentioned him before and I'll ask again, what about Tatar to replace Saad? He shouldn't be cheaper based on his production and analytics but this weird playoffs for him compared to Saad lighting it up could mean he is. The rumour was he was the Avs target when Bergevin was scouting them non-stop last year and you know the analytics staff will absolutely love him. Oh and Tatar, whose only 5'10" and 182 lbs, would've been fourth on the Avs in hits last season if you're into that sort of thing.

Tatar:

Shots:

Goals:

Saad:

Shots:

Goals:

Tatar is definitely a potential value, but the big concern is the playoffs.

12 points, 40 career post-season games. Healthy scratched during Vegas’s 2018 SCF run and again during Montreal’s deep run this post-season.

 

[Balthazar]

Jackets:
Bryam
Kadri
3rd Round Pick 2022(if Avs re-sign Jones)

That condition better be on Byram and not the 3rd round pick

 

[dahrougem2]

No that's what I'd offer and I don't think it gets beat.

You don't think an offer where the Sabres are retaining 2M in salary for the next 5 years on their best player is a deal that can be beat?

Come on now.

 

[redacted]

Pegula isn't retaining.

 

[Avs_19]

Tatar is definitely a potential value, but the big concern is the playoffs.

12 points, 40 career post-season games. Healthy scratched during Vegas’s 2018 SCF run and again during Montreal’s deep run this post-season.

Yeah, that's the issue with him. I kinda ignore the Vegas season because that just wasn't a good fit but the fact that it's happening with the Habs as well isn't great. Still, some of his possession numbers are still good in the playoffs just without the production to show for it. He's not a soft perimeter player like say a Parenteau type either where the numbers are great but he's actually kinda bad so I don't know why it's not working for him right now.