Rumor: 2020-21 Trade Rumours and FA Part VIII: Intra-Playoff Edition?

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Toews-Girard will only work if Girard never repeats his performance in this playoffs otherwise playing him on the top pair will be even more of a problem. I won't feel comfortable with that pair going against teams like Vegas in the playoffs. Also doesn't seem like a better blueline with MacDonald and Timmins, that's just not a playoff d core. Maybe get a good shutdown D to play on bottom pair with Timmims. Someone physical

The worst thing the Avs could do is learn all the wrong lessons here. It wasn't the puckmoving defenders who did the most damage to the team--it was the two guys who were supposedly going to stand up to Vegas's forecheck who all but killed them. Just because a guy is big and throws hits doesn't mean he's a good match against a tough, physical team. Nemeth and Graves, for all their vaunted size, couldn't win a puck battle to save their lives and couldn't move it out of the zone effectively, not to mention their brain-dead turnovers. Winning puck battles is a skill--and say what you will about MacDonald but if you watch him this season he was quite adept at it, despite not being a big guy. Timmins was actually much, much better at handling Vegas's forecheck than Graves and Nemeth put together. He got pushed, hit, and run over plenty of times and still got the puck moved in the right direction, and the coaches noticed. He went from virtually no ice time in the first round to 15 minutes a game when all was said and done.

You try to chase "toughness" like some white whale, you end up like Washington, who did considerable damage to their Cup window and were lucky as f*** they won it all before it slammed shut, or Buffalo, who took a good, talented team and completely ruined it for over a decade now. No, if they try and gut what they've got now that will only hurt them.

There IS a lesson to be learned, but I don't it's where you believe it is. Toughness and size IMO are a factor, but it's not the back end that needs it. It's up front. Avs need to get some better depth up front, guys who can put the puck in the net, give teams like Vegas a taste of their own medicine. Jost and Compher, and to a lesser extent, Burakovsky and Kadri, are not good enough behind the top line. They need better than that. And for the love of God, GET SOMEONE WHO CAN WIN A GODDAMNED FACEOFF.

The Avs proved they CAN play their game against Vegas and dominate, much like they did in game 5. There were stretches where Vegas couldn't muster a forecheck and had to settle for sending one guy in because the Avs were controlling the play. They lost game 5 because of stupid mistakes by guys like Nemeth and Graves, not because they couldn't handle the physicality. They absolutely COULD once adjustments were made. I'd say that was also on Bednar for taking too damned long to make those adjustments, and also on Bednar for continuing to put those two yahoos out there. Literally cost them the game.

Those pairings get held in their own end for extended periods of time against a heavy forecheck. Just like this year.

I don't agree--it wasn't necessarily those guys in the top four who got pinned in their own zone, it was Graves and Nemeth who were out there for most of those debacles. Yes, it happened with Makar, Girard, and Toews as well, but with better puck support from the forwards that shouldn't happen. The coaches just need to make better adjustments and the players, especially the top line guys, just need to play harder and smarter in the defensive zone. AND they need better forwards. Jost was a big-time liability in the postseason, and he was last postseason as well. Compher was much better this time around than he was against Dallas...but he still wasn't anywhere near good enough. Better puck support from the forwards will go a long, long way toward fixing what went wrong in this series.

It should be :

Toews - Makar
Girard - Larsson
Byram - Barron

Really? We didn't get enough of injury-prone defensemen and defensemen who can't skate, we need one who embodies both of those traits? :laugh:
 
I think it’s 9M over 8 years. That’s a full million dollars more than any defenseman has gotten coming off his ELC.
 
Cale will make his money. I'm not certain he'll take a big enough discount as I see some in here are hoping for, because after all he's about to set the bar for young Dmen coming off an ELC. The NHLPA will want him to help raise that bar.

Like his deal will likely be used as the ceiling for whatever Heiskanen signs for.
 
The worst thing the Avs could do is learn all the wrong lessons here. It wasn't the puckmoving defenders who did the most damage to the team--it was the two guys who were supposedly going to stand up to Vegas's forecheck who all but killed them. Just because a guy is big and throws hits doesn't mean he's a good match against a tough, physical team. Nemeth and Graves, for all their vaunted size, couldn't win a puck battle to save their lives and couldn't move it out of the zone effectively, not to mention their brain-dead turnovers. Winning puck battles is a skill--and say what you will about MacDonald but if you watch him this season he was quite adept at it, despite not being a big guy. Timmins was actually much, much better at handling Vegas's forecheck than Graves and Nemeth put together. He got pushed, hit, and run over plenty of times and still got the puck moved in the right direction, and the coaches noticed. He went from virtually no ice time in the first round to 15 minutes a game when all was said and done.

You try to chase "toughness" like some white whale, you end up like Washington, who did considerable damage to their Cup window and were lucky as f*** they won it all before it slammed shut, or Buffalo, who took a good, talented team and completely ruined it for over a decade now. No, if they try and gut what they've got now that will only hurt them.

There IS a lesson to be learned, but I don't it's where you believe it is. Toughness and size IMO are a factor, but it's not the back end that needs it. It's up front. Avs need to get some better depth up front, guys who can put the puck in the net, give teams like Vegas a taste of their own medicine. Jost and Compher, and to a lesser extent, Burakovsky and Kadri, are not good enough behind the top line. They need better than that. And for the love of God, GET SOMEONE WHO CAN WIN A GODDAMNED FACEOFF.

The Avs proved they CAN play their game against Vegas and dominate, much like they did in game 5. There were stretches where Vegas couldn't muster a forecheck and had to settle for sending one guy in because the Avs were controlling the play. They lost game 5 because of stupid mistakes by guys like Nemeth and Graves, not because they couldn't handle the physicality. They absolutely COULD once adjustments were made. I'd say that was also on Bednar for taking too damned long to make those adjustments, and also on Bednar for continuing to put those two yahoos out there. Literally cost them the game.



I don't agree--it wasn't necessarily those guys in the top four who got pinned in their own zone, it was Graves and Nemeth who were out there for most of those debacles. Yes, it happened with Makar, Girard, and Toews as well, but with better puck support from the forwards that shouldn't happen. The coaches just need to make better adjustments and the players, especially the top line guys, just need to play harder and smarter in the defensive zone. AND they need better forwards. Jost was a big-time liability in the postseason, and he was last postseason as well. Compher was much better this time around than he was against Dallas...but he still wasn't anywhere near good enough. Better puck support from the forwards will go a long, long way toward fixing what went wrong in this series.



Really? We didn't get enough of injury-prone defensemen and defensemen who can't skate, we need one who embodies both of those traits? :laugh:

Waow, you’re funny, injury prone and can’t skate :laugh::sarcasm:

Just keep Timmins who is never hurt and your soft MacDonald, that’s really what the Avs need to succeed :naughty:
 
The worst thing the Avs could do is learn all the wrong lessons here. It wasn't the puckmoving defenders who did the most damage to the team--it was the two guys who were supposedly going to stand up to Vegas's forecheck who all but killed them. Just because a guy is big and throws hits doesn't mean he's a good match against a tough, physical team. Nemeth and Graves, for all their vaunted size, couldn't win a puck battle to save their lives and couldn't move it out of the zone effectively, not to mention their brain-dead turnovers. Winning puck battles is a skill--and say what you will about MacDonald but if you watch him this season he was quite adept at it, despite not being a big guy. Timmins was actually much, much better at handling Vegas's forecheck than Graves and Nemeth put together. He got pushed, hit, and run over plenty of times and still got the puck moved in the right direction, and the coaches noticed. He went from virtually no ice time in the first round to 15 minutes a game when all was said and done.

You try to chase "toughness" like some white whale, you end up like Washington, who did considerable damage to their Cup window and were lucky as f*** they won it all before it slammed shut, or Buffalo, who took a good, talented team and completely ruined it for over a decade now. No, if they try and gut what they've got now that will only hurt them.

There IS a lesson to be learned, but I don't it's where you believe it is. Toughness and size IMO are a factor, but it's not the back end that needs it. It's up front. Avs need to get some better depth up front, guys who can put the puck in the net, give teams like Vegas a taste of their own medicine. Jost and Compher, and to a lesser extent, Burakovsky and Kadri, are not good enough behind the top line. They need better than that. And for the love of God, GET SOMEONE WHO CAN WIN A GODDAMNED FACEOFF.

The Avs proved they CAN play their game against Vegas and dominate, much like they did in game 5. There were stretches where Vegas couldn't muster a forecheck and had to settle for sending one guy in because the Avs were controlling the play. They lost game 5 because of stupid mistakes by guys like Nemeth and Graves, not because they couldn't handle the physicality. They absolutely COULD once adjustments were made. I'd say that was also on Bednar for taking too damned long to make those adjustments, and also on Bednar for continuing to put those two yahoos out there. Literally cost them the game.



I don't agree--it wasn't necessarily those guys in the top four who got pinned in their own zone, it was Graves and Nemeth who were out there for most of those debacles. Yes, it happened with Makar, Girard, and Toews as well, but with better puck support from the forwards that shouldn't happen. The coaches just need to make better adjustments and the players, especially the top line guys, just need to play harder and smarter in the defensive zone. AND they need better forwards. Jost was a big-time liability in the postseason, and he was last postseason as well. Compher was much better this time around than he was against Dallas...but he still wasn't anywhere near good enough. Better puck support from the forwards will go a long, long way toward fixing what went wrong in this series.



Really? We didn't get enough of injury-prone defensemen and defensemen who can't skate, we need one who embodies both of those traits? :laugh:
Preach. I was also going to go off on suggesting Larsson. Larsson is prone to bone head mistakes aswell. Losing his man and turning pucks over. Hes a slightly better right handed version of Nemeth. Not a guy you want in the top 4.
 
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Preach. I was also going to go off on suggesting Larsson. Larsson is prone to bone head mistakes aswell. Losing his man and turning pucks over. Hes a slightly better right handed version of Nemeth. Not a guy you want in the top 4.

Playing for Edmonton too …
 
Waow, you’re funny, injury prone and can’t skate :laugh::sarcasm:

Just keep Timmins who is never hurt and your soft MacDonald, that’s really what the Avs need to succeed :naughty:
Hes right though. Larsson is injury prone and he cant skate well at all. He's also out of position a lot and turns pucks over. Add to that he has next to no offensive ability. You don't want that in your top 4 and you definitely don't want to pay to have him in your bottom pairing either.
 
Hes right though. Larsson is injury prone and he cant skate well at all. He's also out of position a lot and turns pucks over. Add to that he has next to no offensive ability. You don't want that in your top 4 and you definitely don't want to pay to have him in your bottom pairing either.

How many games did he miss in his last 5 seasons ?
 
Waow, you’re funny, injury prone and can’t skate :laugh::sarcasm:

Just keep Timmins who is never hurt and your soft MacDonald, that’s really what the Avs need to succeed :naughty:

So the answer is to get yet another guy who's slow AND injury prone? How does that solve anything?

Look, you can say the problem is on the back end, fine, but then at least make a better suggestion. Have you seriously even seen Larsson play lately?
 
So the answer is to get yet another guy who's slow AND injury prone? How does that solve anything?

Look, you can say the problem is on the back end, fine, but then at least make a better suggestion. Have you seriously even seen Larsson play lately?

Yes, I saw some playoffs games. I don’t say the back end is the problem, I say we need to replace Graves and Timmins. And we can’t pay Jones in the long run. We need at least one experienced D, and a big one to play with G.

The biggest need is on the forwards though. I want us to trade Kadri and find another 2C, that the priority.
 
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Cale prob becomes the highest AAV on the Avs even on an 8 year deal. It will still be a steal of a contract. pumped he wants to do 8!
 
Yes, I saw some playoffs games. I don’t say the back end is the problem, I say we need to replace Graves and Timmins. And we can’t pay Jones in the long run. We need at least one experienced D, and a big one to play with G.

The biggest need is on the forwards though. I want us to trade Kadri and find another 2C, that the priority.

I'd be okay with that. If Sakic put together a package centered around Reinhart and Kadri I do that deal yesterday. But...I don't know if Buffalo would be amenable to that. If Botterill were around I think they could do it, but I don't think Adams is quite as much of a doofus.
 
I'd be okay with that. If Sakic put together a package centered around Reinhart and Kadri I do that deal yesterday. But...I don't know if Buffalo would be amenable to that. If Botterill were around I think they could do it, but I don't think Adams is quite as much of a doofus.

I would do that, Kadri for Reinhart, he’s available. I would add Timmins, and some prospect like Ranta if needed. Not sure they would like Kadri though.
 
A lot of people thinking cale is going to demand 9-10 mil. I think you’ll all be surprised. I don’t think there’s a guy in that dressing room looking to cash strap the team like that. 8.5m X 7 is my guess

Hope you're right. But tell the truth. If Makar wanted 10M+/year on a long term deal, would you tell him to go take a hike?
 
I would do that, Kadri for Reinhart, he’s available. I would add Timmins, and some prospect like Ranta if needed. Not sure they would like Kadri though.

Well...we know Kadri most certainly wouldn't. :laugh:


Don't know what makes that deal, I'm guessing the Avs have to add somehow, but if it was something like Kadri and a first for Reinhart, I'd do it instantly.
 
Hope you're right. But tell the truth. If Makar wanted 10M+/year on a long term deal, would you tell him to go take a hike?

of course not, I’m down to sign Cale to whatever it takes but it would be tough to work around a 10m+ AAV with the flat cap for the foreseeable future.
 
I don’t think you dump Kadri on this off-season. Demote him to the 3C and push Jost to 4C. If something happens in the top 6… they can move up a line and be passable for a stint. Then he can walk after next season and hopefully Newhook is capable to take a center spot then. If not you can bring in a 3C.
 
How many games did he miss in his last 5 seasons ?
It's not about the games missed, it's about the lingering issues that currently present themselves. He has noted back problems, he's spoken about it, the team has acknowledged it, the media in Edmonton has mentioned it several times. It's not a secret.

If there is one defensemen primed to slow down in a major way before he hits 30, it's Adam Larsson.
 
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