Rumor: 2020-21 Trade Rumours and FA Part VIII: Intra-Playoff Edition?

[Freudian]

Danault should attract enough interest that some team will overpay him. I'd only want Avs to sign him if he wants to take a discount to play for a contender and that's exceedingly rare.

 

[Foppa2118]

Would be a smart move by Seattle to go after him. They won't have elite offensive talent at center so they might as well go for elite defensive talent. They have the cap space and all that stuff.

I'm trying to remember, did we see any teams make a deal with Vegas to pick up assets, so they would leave a better player unprotected? I know we saw teams give up assets to lose a worse player, but did Vegas give up any assets to get a better player?

I'm not as down on Kadri as others, and I'm not saying I want the Avs to do this, but it could be an option if they have another 2C in mind. I think it would be a mistake to count on Newhook as a rookie to fill that role on a Cup contender though.

Maybe they pick up some decent assets by trading Compher to Seattle and then exposing Kadri. Then sign Staz for cheap, and let him, Newhook, and Jost battle it out for the 2C and 3C roles?

They give Jost a cheap one year prove it deal this off season, then perhaps move him at the 2022 draft as the odd man out due a pending raise like Zadorov, and with a higher trade value than he had before, as Newhook looks ready to take over 2C full time in 2022-23, and Staz moves to 3C full time?

 

[Hasbro]

I'm trying to remember, did we see any teams make a deal with Vegas to pick up assets, so they would leave a better player unprotected? e?

Pittsburgh. Fluery. Vegas got a 2nd.

There are some other bottom feeders like Detroit, Buffalo and New Jersey that can also facilitate, but Seattle has the most space and is taking someone from every team.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm trying to remember, did we see any teams make a deal with Vegas to pick up assets, so they would leave a better player unprotected? I know we saw teams give up assets to lose a worse player, but did Vegas give up any assets to get a better player?

Yes, Minnesota traded Tuch (and Haula I believe) to Vegas because otherwise Vegas would’ve selected Dumba.

While that trade very much benefited the Knights and may have backfired a bit on the Wylde, Dumba is still the best player among those three.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yes, Minnesota traded Tuch (and Haula I believe) to Vegas because otherwise Vegas would’ve selected Dumba.

While that trade very much benefited the Knights and may have backfired a bit on the Wylde, Dumba is still the best player among those three.

Pittsburgh. Fluery. Vegas got a 2nd.

There are some other bottom feeders like Detroit, Buffalo and New Jersey that can also facilitate, but Seattle has the most space and is taking someone from every team.

Yeah but I think Minny thought Dumba was the better player. With Pittsburgh Vegas picked up as asset for Fleury like you mentioned.

I'm talking about Seattle giving up the assets for Colorado to expose Kadri. Not the Avs giving up assets. The scenario I'm talking about is if Vegas gives up decent assets to Colorado so they could trade for Compher AND get Kadri in expansion.

Again I'm not pushing to get rid of Naz. I'm fine with keeping him until his contract expires. Just spitballing here.

 

[Pokecheque]

Yeah but I think Minny thought Dumba was the better player. With Pittsburgh Vegas picked up as asset for Fleury like you mentioned.

I'm talking about Seattle giving up the assets for Colorado to expose Kadri. Not the Avs giving up assets. The scenario I'm talking about is if Vegas gives up decent assets to Colorado so they could trade for Compher AND get Kadri in expansion.

Again I'm not pushing to get rid of Naz. I'm fine with keeping him until his contract expires. Just spitballing here.

Oh okay I think I get what you’re saying. I don’t really see that scenario taking place to be honest. I’m not really sure what it would take for Seattle to take both those assets AND Colorado ending up ahead somehow.

 

[Foppa2118]

Oh okay I think I get what you’re saying. I don’t really see that scenario taking place to be honest. I’m not really sure what it would take for Seattle to take both those assets AND Colorado ending up ahead somehow.

Kadri's not a negative asset though. Compher is with his contract but adding Kadri more than makes up for it. It wouldn't be a wash IMO.

If they want a center like him they're going to have to give up something. I'm not talking about prime assets but maybe a decent pick and/or a decent prospect.

 

[MarkT]

I think if Seattle wants Kadri a trade could be arranged, but it wouldn't need to be based on the expansion draft.

What you're suggesting is an interesting idea. If I'm Seattle I definitely talk to teams both ways - what will you give me so I won't pick player X & what can I give you so you'll expose player Y.

It would basically be just a regular trade, but the value of not losing a different player would need to be factored in. Seattle could potentially get some players at a discount that way.

 

[Pokecheque]

The more likely scenario in regards to the expansion draft is what DGB suggested in a recent column. Everyone will know which players will be unprotected, it’s possible a team heads over to Seattle and asks them to select a certain player and prepare a package contingent upon that.

 

[Islay1989]

Hasn't this Danault rumor about the contract offer been debunked?

 

[MarkT]

The more likely scenario in regards to the expansion draft is what DGB suggested in a recent column. Everyone will know which players will be unprotected, it’s possible a team heads over to Seattle and asks them to select a certain player and prepare a package contingent upon that.

If I'm understanding you correctly, isn't that exactly what almost all the deals with Vegas were about - take this guy instead of someone else and we'll pay you to do it.

Also, I don't think everyone will know which players will be unprotected. I've attempted to do my own mock expansion drafts and trying to find consensus protection lists is nearly impossible for most teams.

 

[Freudian]

Teams learned their lesson from last time around. Very rarely did it pay off to trade assets (especially young players with upside) to Vegas for them to pick a specific player. At the same time Vegas strategy was to hoard defenders and trade them around the league. That also didn't really pay off.

Just accept that you will lose a decent player and move on. If the best player Avs lose is a Graves, Donskoi or Compher, Sakic won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[MarkT]

Teams learned their lesson from last time around. Very rarely did it pay off to trade assets (especially young players with upside) to Vegas for them to pick a specific player. At the same time Vegas strategy was to hoard defenders and trade them around the league. That also didn't really pay off.

Just accept that you will lose a decent player and move on. If the best player Avs lose is a Graves, Donskoi or Compher, Sakic won't lose any sleep over it.

I'm honestly a little worried if we lose Graves to Seattle that Sakic will re-sign Nemeth to fill that role.

As for the Vegas strategy of hoarding defenders, I'm not so sure it didn't work. They got two 2nds, a 3rd and a 5th. That's not too bad for a bunch of defensemen who went unprotected, is it? And I'm not even sure it was really a strategy. The nature of the expansion rules means the available players will likely be either the 4th best defenseman or the 8th best forward. It makes sense more defensemen will be taken.

 

[Hasbro]

Teams learned their lesson from last time around. Very rarely did it pay off to trade assets (especially young players with upside) to Vegas for them to pick a specific player. At the same time Vegas strategy was to hoard defenders and trade them around the league. That also didn't really pay off.

Just accept that you will lose a decent player and move on. If the best player Avs lose is a Graves, Donskoi or Compher, Sakic won't lose any sleep over it.

Be that as it may, the flat cap pushes teams right back at Seattle. A team like Tampa has to make a deal with someone, the team you are losing a player to anyway seems like a good start.

 

[MarkT]

Be that as it may, the flat cap pushes teams right back at Seattle. A team like Tampa has to make a deal with someone, the team you are losing a player to anyway seems like a good start.

It makes a lot of sense for a team like Tampa to steer Seattle into picking a player they want to lose (Johnson) rather than losing a player they want to keep (Palat/Cernak)

 

[Richard88]

I'm trying to remember, did we see any teams make a deal with Vegas to pick up assets, so they would leave a better player unprotected? I know we saw teams give up assets to lose a worse player, but did Vegas give up any assets to get a better player?

I'm not as down on Kadri as others, and I'm not saying I want the Avs to do this, but it could be an option if they have another 2C in mind. I think it would be a mistake to count on Newhook as a rookie to fill that role on a Cup contender though.

Maybe they pick up some decent assets by trading Compher to Seattle and then exposing Kadri. Then sign Staz for cheap, and let him, Newhook, and Jost battle it out for the 2C and 3C roles?

They give Jost a cheap one year prove it deal this off season, then perhaps move him at the 2022 draft as the odd man out due a pending raise like Zadorov, and with a higher trade value than he had before, as Newhook looks ready to take over 2C full time in 2022-23, and Staz moves to 3C full time?

Stastny will be 36-37 in 2022-23. How long do you think he'll be able to carry on playing at a 3C level for a contender?

 

[Hasbro]

It makes a lot of sense for a team like Tampa to steer Seattle into picking a player they want to lose (Johnson) rather than losing a player they want to keep (Palat/Cernak)

They’ve got a selling point with Ty being from Spokane. They couldn’t give him away last year.

Seattle can also flip players with retention.

Heading into next year Tampa has signed contracts already putting the $5.6M over the cap. They’re paying someone.

 

[MarkT]

They’ve got a selling point with Ty being from Spokane. They couldn’t give him away last year.

Seattle can also flip players with retention.

Heading into next year Tampa has signed contracts already putting the $5.6M over the cap. They’re paying someone.

Definitely, but when I've done mock drafts, either Palat, McDonagh, Cernak, and/or Foote are available depending on who they protect. They'd have to pay me quite a bit to take someone like Johnson who has 4 years left at 5m and is playing on the 4th line for the Lightning.

 

[Hasbro]

Definitely, but when I've done mock drafts, either Palat, McDonagh, Cernak, and/or Foote are available depending on who they protect. They'd have to pay me quite a bit to take someone like Johnson who has 4 years left at 5m and is playing on the 4th line for the Lightning.

Which they'll do.

 

[Pokecheque]

If I'm understanding you correctly, isn't that exactly what almost all the deals with Vegas were about - take this guy instead of someone else and we'll pay you to do it.

Also, I don't think everyone will know which players will be unprotected. I've attempted to do my own mock expansion drafts and trying to find consensus protection lists is nearly impossible for most teams.

No this isn’t a “steer away from this guy” trade this is more “pick this guy from another team for us and we’ll give you stuff for him” trade.

Teams have to submit their protected lists around 48 hours prior to the draft I think. That’s public information so the teams will know whose players are up for grabs.

 

[UncleRisto]

Giving the expansion team extra assets, or even discussing their selection prior to the draft, is a mistake 100% of the time.

 

[Nihiliste]

Be that as it may, the flat cap pushes teams right back at Seattle. A team like Tampa has to make a deal with someone, the team you are losing a player to anyway seems like a good start.

Tampa will just put a couple guys on LTIR and call it a day

 

[Hasbro]

Tampa will just put a couple guys on LTIR and call it a day

They did pay Ottawa a 2nd to take salary this year.

I think EJ gets Kucherovd next year. Give him the full season to rehab and see if he's ready for a cup run.

 

[MarkT]

No this isn’t a “steer away from this guy” trade this is more “pick this guy from another team for us and we’ll give you stuff for him” trade.

Teams have to submit their protected lists around 48 hours prior to the draft I think. That’s public information so the teams will know whose players are up for grabs.

Ah, that's an interesting idea. Basically a delayed three way trade, with the team losing the player getting nothing.

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

I'm honestly a little worried if we lose Graves to Seattle that Sakic will re-sign Nemeth to fill that role.

As for the Vegas strategy of hoarding defenders, I'm not so sure it didn't work. They got two 2nds, a 3rd and a 5th. That's not too bad for a bunch of defensemen who went unprotected, is it? And I'm not even sure it was really a strategy. The nature of the expansion rules means the available players will likely be either the 4th best defenseman or the 8th best forward. It makes sense more defensemen will be taken.

I don't think so. I think you can see there was sort of a plan on D to let the dmen play their optimal side but it kind of involved Erik Johnson being able to fill a top 4 role. When they traded for Toews and signed Graves I think the district plan was.

Toews-Makar
Girard-Johnson
Graves-Timmins

When Johnson went down Byram had to be brought in maybe earlier than they were expecting and Girard ended up playing on the right. With Nemeth being LHD it would not be optimal even with losing Graves in ED we still have Toews, Girard and Byram on the left side and if Erik Johnson can come back it's pretty balanced at that point with Makar, Johnson and Timmins. Not that it is essential that the dmen play on their shot side but bednar has mentioned it matters to some degree, so if they sign another D it would probably not be Nemeth. Just my opinion.