Rumor: 2020-21 Trade Rumours and FA Part VIII: Intra-Playoff Edition?

[BleedWell]

Dear lord... do you even watch games? G is 3rd on the team in PK minutes...

And that's why Sakic had to accuire otherwise completely useless Nemeth back.

 

[redacted]

23mins is not 1D minutes. Makar and Toews are ahead of him I assume?

In today's NHL, 23+ is #1D level minutes. The days of guys playing 26-27+ are winding down and mostly over save for a select few. Toews and Graves are ahead of him. Makar is behind him.

 

[redacted]

And that's why Sakic had to accuire otherwise completely useless Nemeth back.

Actually no... that was to limit Toews usage and pull Makar off when possible.

 

[The Abusement Park]

23mins is not 1D minutes. Makar and Toews are ahead of him I assume?

Those 3 are all within a minute of each other. Girard is 3rd on the team in PK toi for dmen. All 3 guys played around a 1D level this year. But as I said earlier Girard needs to keep this level up next year to be a legitimate 1D.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Ryan Graves is the true #1D of this team.


Why do you ask? Look at all those PK minutes!!

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The only thing that I think gets overrated a bit on Girard on our board is his defensive ability. Which is still very good. I just don’t think it’s as high-end as some others do.

Not saying I’m right, that’s just my opinion.

Either way... he’s a special player.

 

[BleedWell]

Those 3 are all within a minute of each other. Girard is 3rd on the team in PK toi for dmen. All 3 guys played around a 1D level this year. But as I said earlier Girard needs to keep this level up next year to be a legitimate 1D.

This level is not enough though. And it's not a knock on Girard. In a team with Makar, Toews and Girard (and soon Byram) he won't get a chance to proof he can be a true 1D.

 

[Foppa2118]

Girard is a great defenseman but he wasn't a #1 on the Avs this season, that was Toews.

Toews averaged 1:33 more in ice time overall than G and 23 seconds more at even strength. In the playoffs it's even more pronounced. 1:56 more overall and 39 seconds more at even strength.

Girard is good defensively because he's so smart, but people are seeing his weaknesses being exposed more in the playoffs. That's why Toews is being relied upon more. This is the time when real defensive play stands out.

That's why everyone finally started to respect EJ last year in the playoffs, and why Graves has turned around the support for him with his play in the playoffs so far. Same with Nemeth to an extent.

People seem to rely too heavily on advanced stats to judge how good a player is defensively. Skating the puck out of harms way can contribute a lot to these underlying numbers, but actual defending when the other team has the puck requires you to use the eye test more to judge this.

There's a limit to how good G can be overall because there's a limit to how good he can be defensively due to his lack of strength and lack of reach. These are both very important tools for a defenseman to use, because they're not always going to have perfect body position, they'll have to make some desperation plays.

This is why Byram is better and closer to the top 3 defensively than people realize. He's great at actual defending and he has the strength and reach to do things G can't do on top of that.

 

[BleedWell]

The only thing that I think gets overrated a bit on Girard on our board is his defensive ability. Which is still very good. I just don’t think it’s as high-end as some others do.

No saying I’m right, that’s just my opinion.

Either way... he’s a special player.

Really? I think what gets even more overrated by some posters is his offensive ability. He has always been quite bad at it regarding his skillset. This season was better but it's still lacking. He's shot is a joke and scares no one. And he still seems confused in the offensive zone.
All and all very good player but way WAY overrated in our board.
This 1D thing is just pure fantalk.

 

[redacted]

Really? I think what gets even more overrated by some posters is his offensive ability. He has always been quite bad at it regarding his skillset This season was better but it's still lacking. He's shot is a joke and scares no one. And he still seems confused in the offensive zone.
All and all very good player but way WAY overrated in our board.
This 1D thing is just pure fantalk.

I would have (and surely did) say that G was limited offensively prior to this season. He went to a completely different level this year. His shot assists, passes to the slots, scoring chance assists... then the raw numbers on assists are through the roof. He was one of the best defensemen at creating opportunities in the offensive zone this year. There were probably 8-12 better than him at this this year, but that is about it. The muffin isn't the case, you're exaggerating. His shot isn't a plus shot, but good enough. 5 goals and 3 irons hit show he can score goals. He's not in the 15+ level, but that ~10g level is there. Combine that with his playmaking and 50+ looks realistic in his game. That's not elite sort of numbers, but pushing top 10 especially when he doesn't get the prime PP minutes.

 

[BleedWell]

Ryan Graves is the true #1D of this team.


Why do you ask? Look at all those PK minutes!!

If Ryan Graves of all the players plays more than Samuel "1D" Girard it tells you something indeed

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Really? I think what gets even more overrated by some posters is his offensive ability. He has always been quite bad at it regarding his skillset. This season was better but it's still lacking. He's shot is a joke and scares no one. And he still seems confused in the offensive zone.
All and all very good player but way WAY overrated in our board.
This 1D thing is just pure fantalk.

He’s a top-30 defenceman, which is a 1D.

I’m not saying he’s the Avs best defenceman, but Colorado is building a back-end which has a similar caliber to the old New Jersey Devils. Much different style, but 3 really high-end defenceman... and Bowen Byram is lurking.

 

[Pokecheque]

If Ryan Graves of all the players plays more than Samuel "1D" Girard it tells you something indeed

 

[BleedWell]

He’s a top-30 defenceman, which is a 1D.

I'm sorry but that is not how it works.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

 

[Nihiliste]

The real question is would you trade Girard for Duchene straight up.
How about if I throw in Bowen Byram

Basically for Duchene and O’reilly we have Girard, Byram, Saad, and JTC. When you take the sum of net trades it looks a bit like a trade board fan proposal.

 

[Miri]

The definition of a #1 D is very subjective to begin with. One could argue we have three 1D level players.

It is subjective. You could argue we have 3 "1Ds", you could argue we have none - since, as good Makar, Girard, Toews are, Hedman, Pietrangelo, prime Doughty or Keith or Chara, they are not, neither of them anyway, at least for now. Makar will no doubt get there with more experience, though, and the other 2 might as well who knows. If they happen to win the Cup, narratives will change.

 

[flyfysher]

What part of that makes you think I don't value him on this team?

Your valuing Rantanen, a winger higher than a puck moving D-man on a to die for contract that arguably should be a Norris contender and excels at puck possession and fits JB’s system to a T. High end D, especially when you don’t have them and need them, are next to impossible to acquire from another team except at prohibitively high cost. If you were around for the dark years then you’d understand that. That Sakic acquired Toews for two 2nds was remarkable. I may have my disagreements with Hench on players like Compher but he’s correct about building the team from high end C depth first. Next up is quality D. Wingers like Rantanen, on his contract are incredibly valuable and I wouldn’t trade him either. But no, Rantanen is neither more valuable nor indispensable than Girard in this case. Certainly there was a spell season before this when Girard struggled and I wasn’t happy with his performance. But if you watch him night in and night out, you quickly realize he’s indispensable. Consider them both core players but if I had to choose, you go with D.

 

[flyfysher]

I would have (and surely did) say that G was limited offensively prior to this season. He went to a completely different level this year. His shot assists, passes to the slots, scoring chance assists... then the raw numbers on assists are through the roof. He was one of the best defensemen at creating opportunities in the offensive zone this year. There were probably 8-12 better than him at this this year, but that is about it. The muffin isn't the case, you're exaggerating. His shot isn't a plus shot, but good enough. 5 goals and 3 irons hit show he can score goals. He's not in the 15+ level, but that ~10g level is there. Combine that with his playmaking and 50+ looks realistic in his game. That's not elite sort of numbers, but pushing top 10 especially when he doesn't get the prime PP minutes.

I am not a stat guy but thank you for pointing this out.

When G was out at the end of the season the Avs were still struggling a bit unlike when G was in earlier. He’s really good.

 

[flyfysher]

It is subjective. You could argue we have 3 "1Ds", you could argue we have none - since, as good Makar, Girard, Toews are, Hedman, Pietrangelo, prime Doughty or Keith or Chara, they are not, neither of them anyway, at least for now. Makar will no doubt get there with more experience, though, and the other 2 might as well who knows. If they happen to win the Cup, narratives will change.

Agree.

Makar for offensive punch. Our defensive MacKinnon to terrorize the opposition.

Toews for great D, especially on the PK.

Girard for playmaking.

They’re not traditional #1D-men like Pietrangelo or Hedman but they don’t need to be and frankly, we need their top end skating skill for JB’s system. Instead of saying we don’t have a true #1D, we should be thrilled with this set up. More flexibility, more versatility, more D.

 

[BaconNater]

This would have been more fun if hench stated that Macdonald > Rantanen and we could have seen where that went

 

[Nihiliste]

I still remember when G came in to this team after the Duchene trade and completely changed the way we were able to play in a way EJ and Barrie never could.

 

[Balthazar]

I still remember when G came in to this team after the Duchene trade and completely changed the way we were able to play in a way EJ and Barrie never could.

That's very true. Girard as a 20 yo single handedly changed the face of our defense. Before him our defense was the laughing stock of the NHL.

 

[flyfysher]

That's very true. Girard as a 20 yo single handedly changed the face of our defense. Before him our defense was the laughing stock of the NHL.

It was literally like night and day. People should go back and revisit some of the posts. We were stunned at the difference and it wasn’t just because Matt was no longer here that so many were thrilled.

 

[BleedWell]

Your valuing Rantanen, a winger higher than a puck moving D-man on a to die for contract that arguably should be a Norris contender and excels at puck possession and fits JB’s system to a T. High end D, especially when you don’t have them and need them, are next to impossible to acquire from another team except at prohibitively high cost. If you were around for the dark years then you’d understand that. That Sakic acquired Toews for two 2nds was remarkable. I may have my disagreements with Hench on players like Compher but he’s correct about building the team from high end C depth first. Next up is quality D. Wingers like Rantanen, on his contract are incredibly valuable and I wouldn’t trade him either. But no, Rantanen is neither more valuable nor indispensable than Girard in this case. Certainly there was a spell season before this when Girard struggled and I wasn’t happy with his performance. But if you watch him night in and night out, you quickly realize he’s indispensable. Consider them both core players but if I had to choose, you go with D.

What is this nonsense?

Rantanen is just a winger and Girard puck moving Norris contender???

Rantanen was our leading scorer and 6th in the NHL.
Our leading goal scorer by a wide margin and 5th in the NHL.
Our leading +/- player and 1st in the NHL.
He is a ppg player through out his career and 1,24ppg playoff player 5th best all time(min 40 games played).

Girard is our 3D.

You don't go with D over Wing especially defence being our strenght. That is crazy talk. You go with best player available.
Rants will be a future hall of famer Girard will be not.