2020/21 Roster Thread

[JojoTheWhale]

@JojoTheWhale Hey remember that “winning in the margins” conversation? About how you have to try to get any edge possible over other teams?

Would refusing to ice 6 good defensemen or 4 dangerous lines simply because other teams are unable to ice 6 good defensemen or 4 dangerous lines be a good example of that? Is it better to just not even try?

Just curious.

I would go as far as to say that what another team ices on a specific line or pair has no bearing on the discussion of what the Flyers should do. Every team's situation and depth chart is different.

Discuss the specific players, not the generalities, or we're collectively failing to apply the hypothetical to reality. That's a discussion about philosophy, which has a place, but often leads to people talking past each other when some are talking about the Flyers and some are not.

TLDR; Good enough is for mediocre orgs. You have to keep pushing the boundaries of the margins every day because everyone else is catching up to your advantages.

 

[flyerslducks]

The defense I want

Provy-Ghost
Sanheim-Myers
Zamula-Niskanen
Friedman

The defense we’ll probably get

Provy-Niskanen
Sanheim-Myers
Hagg-Veteran turd
Friedman

ooof that first squad nice. I do want provorov-myers though

veteran turd will probably demers or braun smfh

 

[TB87]

I like it. Given his counting stats, you might not even need to go that high to sign him to a deal Tampa can't match. You have to figure Sergachev is a bigger priority for them on the defensive side.

Yep.


Offer Sheet would cost a 2nd and “could” look something like the following:
3 years, $3,255,148 AAV (Per TheHockeyCode Contract Projection)

OR

2 years, $2,363,000 AAV (Per EvolvingWild’s contract projection)




Ghost is likely a goner, so this would be a nice bit of business.





OR

they could bring in Dylan DeMelo. He wouldn’t cost a draft pick, his contract would likely be cheaper (& shorter on term), & he’s a decent defenseman in his own right.

 

[wankstifier]

Yep.


Offer Sheet would cost a 2nd and “could” look something like the following:
3 years, $3,255,148 AAV (Per TheHockeyCode Contract Projection)

OR

2 years, $2,363,000 AAV (Per EvolvingWild’s contract projection)




Ghost is likely a goner, so this would be a nice bit of business.





OR

they could bring in Dylan DeMelo. He wouldn’t cost a draft pick, his contract would likely be cheaper (& shorter on term), & he’s a decent defenseman in his own right.

I like the idea, but when's the last time something like this was pursued? Is Fletcher able to see the value in offersheeting a non-star player?

 

[ajgoal]

Yep.


Offer Sheet would cost a 2nd and “could” look something like the following:
3 years, $3,255,148 AAV (Per TheHockeyCode Contract Projection)

OR

2 years, $2,363,000 AAV (Per EvolvingWild’s contract projection)




Ghost is likely a goner, so this would be a nice bit of business.





OR

they could bring in Dylan DeMelo. He wouldn’t cost a draft pick, his contract would likely be cheaper (& shorter on term), & he’s a decent defenseman in his own right.

Man, that contract looks better than the Hagg projection. Why not just use Hagg's money, keep Ghost, and lett Hagg walk? Profit.

 

[BernieParent]

That sounds like a saloon, so my expectations are low.

Ponderosa Steakhouse was a Grade Z quality restaurant that probably invoked Rodney Dangerfield's line from Caddyshack that "This steak still has marks from where the jockey was hitting it." I don't know if it was a US restaurant.

 

[kudymen]

The roster threads titles should always somehow include Iowa fields because that's what approx 75 percent of the content always is

 

[TB87]

I like the idea, but when's the last time something like this was pursued? Is Fletcher able to see the value in offersheeting a non-star player?

One would hope he would!

 

[Striiker]

I would go as far as to say that what another team ices on a specific line or pair has no bearing on the discussion of what the Flyers should do. Every team's situation and depth chart is different.

Discuss the specific players, not the generalities, or we're collectively failing to apply the hypothetical to reality. That's a discussion about philosophy, which has a place, but often leads to people talking past each other when some are talking about the Flyers and some are not.

TLDR; Good enough is for mediocre orgs. You have to keep pushing the boundaries of the margins every day because everyone else is catching up to your advantages.

Yup yup yup. You would and you should, because it's 100% true. The Flyers responsibility is to ice the best possible team, not the most similar team to anybody else.

A cup finalist/winner having a stereotypical crappy bottom of the lineup player on their roster doesn't mean it's ok for us to settle for having one on ours. To be specific, the existence of L.Schenn doesn't mean Hagg is acceptable.

There's no such thing as good enough. Everything has to be the best we can possibly make it and absolutely everything matters.

 

[Magua]

To be honest, I’m just a little offended Magua gets more hate mail than I do.

Hate mail like this? Don't act so innocent.

I don't think that individual is from the BUZZ fwiw. You probably won't believe this, but he posted a really questionable trade idea. He then asked if we needed to add anything. So, I said: yes, 50 IQ points. That wasn't very nice. He probably would beat me in an IQ test.

 

[Striiker]

Hate mail like this? Don't act so innocent.

I don't think that individual is from the BUZZ fwiw. You probably won't believe this, but he posted a really questionable trade idea. He then asked if we needed to add anything. So, I said: yes, 50 IQ points. That wasn't very nice. He probably would beat me in an IQ test.

Doubtful.

Also, as far as that PM goes, I waited to fight you in the TGIFridays parking lot for like 3 hours and you never showed.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Name a team with four skilled lines.

The problem is that there are only so many skilled players, when you start playing guys with mediocre offensive skills and defensive liabilities, that's far worse than playing an "energy" line.

Why do you always want to be a follower? "NaMe A tEaM wItH 4 sKiLlEd LiNeS" we could be that team

 

[flyersnorth]

Ponderosa Steakhouse was a Grade Z quality restaurant that probably invoked Rodney Dangerfield's line from Caddyshack that "This steak still has marks from where the jockey was hitting it." I don't know if it was a US restaurant.

Ponderosa is one step below the insect protein paste they serve on the Snowpiercer train.

 

[Adtar02]

Doubtful.

Also, as far as that PM goes, I waited to fight you in the TGIFridays parking lot for like 3 hours and you never showed.

Clearly a reputable poster

 

[TB87]

A good litmus test for Flyers fans:

- if they think Giroux sucks
AND/OR
- if they think Raffl is terrible



.....It’s likely that their ability to understand the game of hockey is limited at best

 

[Curufinwe]

A good litmus test for Flyers fans:

- if they think Giroux sucks
AND/OR
- if they think Raffl is terrible



.....It’s likely that their ability to understand the game of hockey is limited at best

Ot if they ever started a Trade Couturier thread.

 

[deadhead]

Why do you always want to be a follower? "NaMe A tEaM wItH 4 sKiLlEd LiNeS" we could be that team

Really? What do you consider a "skilled player."
Raffl, NAK, Bunnaman, Sushko, Twarynski, Rubtsov?
Maybe Laczynski but first see what he does against pro players?
Kase? Maybe down the road.
Allison? When. Brink? When

Remember, we not talking hypothetical prospects, we're talking actual play against NHL players.
Everyone looks good until they actually get into games.

 

[FLYguy3911]

You only win games when you outscore your opponent.

Is this wrong?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Doubtful.

Also, as far as that PM goes, I waited to fight you in the TGIFridays parking lot for like 3 hours and you never showed.

Boys bringing that Rock 90/2000’s energy.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Really? What do you consider a "skilled player."
Raffl, NAK, Bunnaman, Sushko, Twarynski, Rubtsov?
Maybe Laczynski but first see what he does against pro players?
Kase? Maybe down the road.
Allison? When. Brink? When

Remember, we not talking hypothetical prospects, we're talking actual play against NHL players.
Everyone looks good until they actually get into games.

I'm talking about players who actually have talent, not your thompsons and Grant's of the world, you dont need a historical 4th line frost could play on a 4the line as long as he has other players with him, you've said several times he can't play a 4the line role, and that's because you want typical grinders and you're overly obsessed with size

 

[deadhead]

I'm talking about players who actually have talent, not your thompsons and Grant's of the world, you dont need a historical 4th line frost could play on a 4the line as long as he has other players with him, you've said several times he can't play a 4the line role, and that's because you want typical grinders and you're overly obsessed with size

I'm not obsessed with size, but as Martel showed, there is a minimum size below which the probability of NHL success approaches zero (in a league with 400+ forwards, there's always an extreme outlier or two). And young undersized players often struggle for a year or two before they get strong enough and experienced enough to handle the NHL.

Fourth lines are generally energy lines for a reason, they don't get regular shifts so they're not going to have the chemistry of a line that plays 14-16 minutes a line, and they don't have three skilled players, so they're unlikely to generate much offense (A player who is talented enough to play a regular role in the top 9 will soon be in the top 9). So HCs want players who hit the ice flying, willing to forecheck and hit and cause turnovers and make things happen, not patiently set up scoring chances for non-existent scorers.

That doesn't not describe Frost or Brink. Farabee could play a 4th line role once he filled out, as could Lindblom, but why would you waste their talents there?

Third lines are often compromises, look at Goodrow - Gourde - Coleman, Gourde is a skilled center who has accepted more of a forechecking role and thrived, the other two are career bottom six types:
Gourde, pp/60 ES, 2.65, 2.08, 1.49, hits/60, 2.38, 4.59, 5.00
Coleman, pp/60 ES, 1.38. 1.59, 1.69, hits/60, 12.26, 11.80, 12.13
Goodrow, pp/60 ES. 1.69, 1.23, 1.54, hits/60, 8.81, 9.54, 10.74

for comparison purposes:
Raffl, pp/60 ES, 1.39, 1.46, 1.70, hits/60, 5.62, 7.91, 6.61
NAK, pp/60, ES 1.95, hits/60, 13.19
Laughton, pp/60, 1.41, 1.76, 2.62, hits/60, 9.28, 8.47, 10.28
Pitlick, pp/60, 1.64, 1.18, 1.76, hits/60, 7.15, 9.67, 11.15

Frost, pp/60 ES 1.61, hits/60, 1.08
Bunnaman, pp/60 ES 0.62, hits/60, 9.01
Grant, pp/60 ES 1.88, 1.40, 1.79, hits/60, 5.83, 9.73, 5.20
Thompson, pp/60 ES, 1.30, 1.28, 1.14, hits/60, 9.94, 6.10, 9.50

 

[Curufinwe]

They should start ordering the defense up by weight since it's so important.

https://cms.nhl.bamgrid.com/images/assets/binary/309021602/binary-file/file.pdf

Hagg(216)-Myers(218)
Provorov(211)-Sanheim(205)
Niskanen(203)-Friedman(185)
Ghost(184)

 

[deadhead]

They should start ordering the defense up by weight since it's so important.

https://cms.nhl.bamgrid.com/images/assets/binary/309021602/binary-file/file.pdf

Hagg(216)-Myers(218)
Provorov(211)-Sanheim(205)
Niskanen(203)-Friedman(185)
Ghost(184)

Works for Tampa Bay. How are they doing?

Hedman 6'6 223
McDonagh 6'1 215
Serghachev 6'3 215
Cernak 6'3 225
Shattenkirk 6'0 206
Bogosian 6'3 221
Schenn 6'2 229

 

[kudymen]

Works for Tampa Bay. How are they doing?

Hedman 6'6 223
McDonagh 6'1 215
Serghachev 6'3 215
Cernak 6'3 225
Shattenkirk 6'0 206
Bogosian 6'3 221
Schenn 6'2 229

This feels way too much like a confirmation bias instead of an actual argument in favor of that hypothesis

 

[Prongo]

Works for Tampa Bay. How are they doing?

Hedman 6'6 223
McDonagh 6'1 215
Serghachev 6'3 215
Cernak 6'3 225
Shattenkirk 6'0 206
Bogosian 6'3 221
Schenn 6'2 229

Oh so now you believe the measurements are accurate.