Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[Fishhead]

Remember when early on last season, Kings dominated the forecheck and outshot opponents almost every night?
What happened to that forecheck?

It left with Clifford, Lewis, and Toffoli. Carter would get in there too. The defense wasn't as inexperienced either, they knew how to get the puck up and out. Even unimpressive guys like Hutton and Ryan could do that.

 

[tomd]

The players the Kings traded, other than an exception or two are playing lesser roles than they were expected to play in LA.

Since winning the cup in 2014 the Kings have had the following finishes in goals.

18th
14th
24th
16th
30th
30th
26th

I don't know how a change in culture makes up for that much of a total lack of talent. The Kings have had one consistent first line player and first pairing d-man for quite awhile now.

Well, I disagree about the lesser role that guys like Toffoli, Muzzin, Martinez, and Forbort are playing. I think they're in almost exactly the same roles as they were here. But that is subjective so we can just agree to disagree.

And yes, the Kings have had a talent deficit especially offensively. But Blake has done nothing to fix that in 4 years. His one attempt (Kovalchuk) was neither inspiring nor successful. And then he just sort of gave up. Blake was not promoted to GM with the intention of doing a rebuild. He made that choice a year into his tenure here. I wonder if AEG would have picked a different person to be GM if they'd known a rebuild was right around the corner. I think it can't be emphasized enough that Blake hasn't been successful in bringing a single talented player onto the roster in 4 years. Can anyone defend that?

 

[SFKingshomer]

Well, I disagree about the lesser role that guys like Toffoli, Muzzin, Martinez, and Forbort are playing. I think they're in almost exactly the same roles as they were here. But that is subjective so we can just agree to disagree.

And yes, the Kings have had a talent deficit especially offensively. But Blake has done nothing to fix that in 4 years. His one attempt (Kovalchuk) was neither inspiring nor successful. And then he just sort of gave up. Blake was not promoted to GM with the intention of doing a rebuild. He made that choice a year into his tenure here. I wonder if AEG would have picked a different person to be GM if they'd known a rebuild was right around the corner. I think it can't be emphasized enough that Blake hasn't been successful in bringing a single talented player onto the roster in 4 years. Can anyone defend that?

They did not have the assets until this year and free agency was not an option.

 

[BigKing]

I don't care what year it is of the rebuild: it could be game 25 of the rebuild. What I do care about is effort. What I also care about is a coach in his second season having his system played at a higher level v. regressing from the year prior.

We can lament the leadership traits of Kopitar and Doughty all we want but, seriously, there are a lot of young guys on this roster that haven't made much money at the NHL level that are taking this shit for granted. I don't need Kopitar to light a fire under these guys: they should be playing for their careers if they won't play for pride or for each other.

You don't need to have the hands of an elite player to finish a damn check. Is it just that these guys aren't talented enough? Somewhat but, at the same time, talent without a strong effort is just wasted talent. If you don't have that much talent to begin with, you better play your ass off. These guys aren't.

Luc is the biggest "please like me" player in Kings history. He takes over with his ex-player buddy at GM and they bring in all of their old ex-buddies. First order of business is to make things fun again after the demands of the DL/Sutter era. There is an immediate positive reaction from the team as they get to come to work in an environment that they now control. Well, that lack of accountability and letting the inmates run the asylum leads us to where we are now.

Is T-Mac a teacher? I think he won at the AHL level but was the AHL that prospect-heavy back then? He's an assistant in Detroit, right? No teaching needed. He takes over a team in SJ that had made the playoffs four years in a row prior to him coming there and immediately proceeds to lose to an eight seed after a 117 point regular season. We know all about 2014. Then he bombs out the next season with SJ missing the playoffs. SJ makes the SCF the next season with a new coach. SJ then goes on to make the playoffs for another three years in a row, although T-Mac did beat them with Edmonton. Can I hold Edmonton against him? Well, they are a tire fire of a franchise but they had a giant choke job against the Ducks in Round 2 so there's T-Mac again at the helm of another choke. Oilers haven't done much since but I can't hold the COVID Cup failure last year against them too much and they are crushing it in the standings this year with Tippet in charge.

Blake wanted to get this coaching hire right so he went with someone he knows and liked playing for. I get it but I have to ask if the timing was right. If T-Mac is even the right coach when this team is ready to be good, did Blake hire him too early just to make sure he could get him? A five year contract for this guy's recent track record is f***ing lunacy. The pro-Blake-while-crapping-on-DL-and-Sutter-because-of-their-track-record-over-the-last-three-seasons-in-LA-crowd can't defend T-Mac in the same breath because his track record since 2014 isn't any better.

The roster is a problem that, of course, needs to be addressed and will be via prospect graduation and whatever Blake decides to do with the ammo he is now sitting on. I have major concerns, however, that the culture being built here is too player friendly and that hiring a retread that hasn't done much of anything good for a long time is another mistake by Rob Blake which, to be fair, isn't surprising because the guy is a first time GM that has still shown zero in the way of inventive thinking. I'm not even crapping on him when I say that: it's just the facts so far.

The 1-3-1 sucks to watch. If these guys were executing correctly and winning, we probably wouldn't hate it so much. Maybe it is the wrong roster for this system and that will change as the roster is upgraded but, man, it looks like these guys aren't having any fun playing this system and have checked out on it. I hate that we have to worry about "fun" but that is the professional athlete in 2021. Sutter wasn't "fun" but they were winning, winning is fun and there were bona fide stud character guys on those teams to help keep it all together. To circle back to the veteran leadership on this team, there aren't many vets and the ones we have--sans Quick--are the leaders of the "want to have fun at work" brigade. To be fair to Doughty though, I think he would take a hard ass again if it meant the Kings are winning because I do think he is pretty over this garbage.

Anyways, all of this is coalescing to bring us the current mess they are in. You can't have another season like this next year so it demands that some upgrades are made outside of just inserting Byfield and maybe some other prospects. There does come a point where losing begets losing and when we talk about a lack of leadership from 11/23 and them needing help, let us not forget that they played multiple seasons of trash before ever sniffing the playoffs and didn't win a playoff round until their 6th and 8th seasons, respectively. It's not a good thing for young guys to get comfortable in a country club atmosphere and realize that the checks still clear even in last place.

 

[Herby]

Well, I disagree about the lesser role that guys like Toffoli, Muzzin, Martinez, and Forbort are playing. I think they're in almost exactly the same roles as they were here. But that is subjective so we can just agree to disagree.

And yes, the Kings have had a talent deficit especially offensively. But Blake has done nothing to fix that in 4 years. His one attempt (Kovalchuk) was neither inspiring nor successful. And then he just sort of gave up. Blake was not promoted to GM with the intention of doing a rebuild. He made that choice a year into his tenure here. I wonder if AEG would have picked a different person to be GM if they'd known a rebuild was right around the corner. I think it can't be emphasized enough that Blake hasn't been successful in bringing a single talented player onto the roster in 4 years. Can anyone defend that?

Part of the problem is no one is going to take a comparable offer from the Kings, its not only the taxes issue (Canada has huge taxes too), but who would want to come to the Kings, to play on a terrible team with 5-6 players who have permanent immunity from criticism because of what they did 9 and 7 years ago.

Its tough to realize this as fans of the team, but think about it, if you were an NHL player what has been appealing about playing on the Kings since the last cup?

The players revolted against the cup winning coach (who probably also deserves blame)

The previous cup-winning GM had perhaps the worst 3 year run as GM in team history from June 2014 to April 2017. Destroying a playoff team and making trades that to this day still have a massive negative effect on the franchise. It was so bad that despite winning 2 cups that person has not been able to get a GM job since.

The president hired a coach and GM not because of merit but because they were next man up (on an already sinking ship). Only the Kings fire a coach and GM for incompetence and then replace them with their #1 lieutenants.

They fired that coach, and then hired the most embarrassing coach in team history.

So that covers FA, now you may say make a trade. What did the Kings have to offer anyone since that cup team that was going to get an impact player here? Did you seen the Kings draft picks from 2012-2016? Who was trading an impact forward for what the Kings were offering? The only thing they could have done was trade the 2019 or 2020 1st rounders, and that would have been a negative thing.

It all should have been blown up in April 2017. They needed to go outside the organization for a GM and coach who weren't blinded by loyalty to these players. They should have traded one of the big two to send the message it was over and to prepare for the very difficult 3-5 year rebuild just as they did in 2006. Instead they tried to rebuild on the fly and it's been a complete and total disaster with the team not even sniffing the playoffs this season despite being gift wrapped a division with a bunch of awful teams. Had the Kings started the rebuild in 2017 they might have been a playoff team this year and at the very least would have a way better shot next season.

Face it guys, the 2014-2021 Kings have largely been the 1993-1999 Kings or 2002-2008 Kings. It's been that bad, we just have banners to look up at now and players still on the roster because of it.

 

[The Butcher]

I heard Dean Lombardi knows a thing or two about rebuilding a team from the bottom up. I know everyone shits on the guy for giving away all the legacy contracts but he doesn't seem like a guy that is incapable of learning from mistakes. It blows me away he's not a GM somewhere else in the league right now.

I'll come out and say it: I don't like Rob Blake. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt early on in his GM career but this team has seen no improvement in the 4 years since his arrival and his character as a player left much to be desired for me personally. I'll be the first to eat my words of her manages to turn this thing around but I wouldn't shed a tear if he was fired at the end of the season.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I heard Dean Lombardi knows a thing or two about rebuilding a team from the bottom up. I know everyone shits on the guy for giving away all the legacy contracts but he doesn't seem like a guy that is incapable of learning from mistakes. It blows me away he's not a GM somewhere else in the league right now.

I'll come out and say it: I don't like Rob Blake. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt early on in his GM career but this team has seen no improvement in the 4 years since his arrival and his character as a player left much to be desired for me personally. I'll be the first to eat my words of her manages to turn this thing around but I wouldn't shed a tear off he was fired at the end of the season.

Maybe Lombardi doesn't want to be a GM? He would be good in Buffalo...

 

[KINGS17]

Part of the problem is no one is going to take a comparable offer from the Kings, its not only the taxes issue (Canada has huge taxes too), but who would want to come to the Kings, to play on a terrible team with 5-6 players who have permanent immunity from criticism because of what they did 9 and 7 years ago.

Its tough to realize this as fans of the team, but think about it, if you were an NHL player what has been appealing about playing on the Kings since the last cup?

The players revolted against the cup winning coach (who probably also deserves blame)

The previous cup-winning GM had perhaps the worst 3 year run as GM in team history from June 2014 to April 2017. Destroying a playoff team and making trades that to this day still have a massive negative effect on the franchise. It was so bad that despite winning 2 cups that person has not been able to get a GM job since.

The president hired a coach and GM not because of merit but because they were next man up (on an already sinking ship). Only the Kings fire a coach and GM for incompetence and then replace them with their #1 lieutenants.

They fired that coach, and then hired the most embarrassing coach in team history.

So that covers FA, now you may say make a trade. What did the Kings have to offer anyone since that cup team that was going to get an impact player here? Did you seen the Kings draft picks from 2012-2016? Who was trading an impact forward for what the Kings were offering? The only thing they could have done was trade the 2019 or 2020 1st rounders, and that would have been a negative thing.

It all should have been blown up in April 2017. They needed to go outside the organization for a GM and coach who weren't blinded by loyalty to these players. They should have traded one of the big two to send the message it was over and to prepare for the very difficult 3-5 year rebuild just as they did in 2006. Instead they tried to rebuild on the fly and it's been a complete and total disaster with the team not even sniffing the playoffs this season despite being gift wrapped a division with a bunch of awful teams. Had the Kings started the rebuild in 2017 they might have been a playoff team this year and at the very least would have a way better shot next season.

Face it guys, the 2014-2021 Kings have largely been the 1993-1999 Kings or 2002-2008 Kings. It's been that bad, we just have banners to look up at now and players still on the roster because of it.

I couldn't agree more, especially with the portion in bold.

 

[KINGS17]

What if we signed Putin? Put him on the line with Eichel.

If I was out there, I am not sure I could resist running him through the boards.

 

[Herby]

I couldn't agree more, especially with the portion in bold.

I think the thing that people also forget is that Kopitar is eventually going to decline out of a #1C. He has already declined significantly but is still a top 15-20 C in the league. There is a realistic chance that as soon as next season (but probably the one after) that Kopitar is no longer a #1C in the NHL. And then what?

What a complete waste of the second half of Kopitar and Doughty's careers. Two SC's at age 27 and 25 and 0 playoff wins for the next 7 seasons while being paid 8 figures for most of those years.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Regardless of when it should have been blown up. Here we are with a shit load of prospects, cap space, and draft picks. Is that not what a rebuild is?

 

[unicornpig]

i'd give blake, 2 more years. this is year 1 of the rebuild, people are expecting playoffs following a blow up.

 

[Brodeur]

Maybe Lombardi doesn't want to be a GM? He would be good in Buffalo...

Paraphrasing something from Brian Burke's book, one consideration about whether he wanted to take a GM job was how much the ownership would meddle in the decisions. I wonder if a few candidates have been turned off by the Pegulas. They've gone bare bones on the budget for their scouting staff and I vaguely recall reading something along the lines of Kevyn Adams being one of the lesser paid GMs. Mix in the current state of the roster and maybe some guys would wait for GM spots to open elsewhere.

 

[Herby]

Maybe Lombardi doesn't want to be a GM? He would be good in Buffalo...

My guess is Lombardi doesn't want to be a GM.

Like I said in my last post, his final three years in LA were managed about as poorly as one could possibly be managed. But even with that, other guys who have won cups and then had everything they touch turn to **** have still been able to get second chances (Feaster, Chiarelli).

My biggest objections to bringing Lombardi back is his total inability to draft skilled forwards in a league dominated by skilled forwards and his loyalty to aging players.

With Byfield on board (that is the big one) and some nice secondary pieces like Kaliyev, Kupari, Turcotte, Fagemo I'd be more welcoming to bring him back. But would prefer it to be with all or most of the former guys gone.

If Lombardi took over the Kings tomorrow they would probably either draft a goalie or trade Kaliyev and our pick to move-up to draft Beniers who is the definition of a DL type player.

 

[The Butcher]

i'd give blake, 2 more years. this is year 1 of the rebuild, people are expecting playoffs following a blow up.

No reasonable person was expecting playoffs. What I was expecting at this point was a team with a pulse.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I think the thing that people also forget is that Kopitar is eventually going to decline out of a #1C. He has already declined significantly but is still a top 15-20 C in the league. There is a realistic chance that as soon as next season (but probably the one after) that Kopitar is no longer a #1C in the NHL. And then what?

What a complete waste of the second half of Kopitar and Doughty's careers. Two SC's at age 27 and 25 and 0 playoff wins for the next 7 seasons while being paid 8 figures for most of those years.

The beauty about the Kopitar contract is that as he (very slowly) declines, Byfield should be rapidly improving. So to answer your question "and then what". The what is Byfield and even better it's Byfield on an ELC contract. The reality is elite players on ELC's allow teams to spend big money on veteran impact players.

Kopitar and his contract is almost perfect for where our team is right now. He has three more years left. This is very similar to the ELC years left we will have on the majority of our current key prospects. When kopis contract ends it will free up cap space to resign our guys coming off ELC's.

And to fast forward even further... I could easily see a situation where Kopitar at age 37 is still a valuable player in the NHL who then takes small short term contracts to stick around with the Kings if we have become a good team by then and continues to add value to the team as potentially a two-way 3rd line center with special teams value and playoff acumen.

 

[deaderhead28]

There’s a good chance they will be worse next year with more youth rotating in and out of the lineup. It’s year 2.5 of a practically scorched earth rebuild...patience.

You might be disappointed,Blake has said their improving the team this off-season.Doubt this is going to carry over into next season.Propexts will probably used in trades.

 

[bland]

Regardless of when it should have been blown up. Here we are with a shit load of prospects, cap space, and draft picks. Is that not what a rebuild is?

Yup, and stinking on the ice for a couple of years is all part of that process.

 

[BigKing]

i'd give blake, 2 more years. this is year 1 of the rebuild, people are expecting playoffs following a blow up.

This is the 3rd season of being a cellar dwellar. 2019 is the first season of the rebuild, it just wasn't supposed to be one so the prevailing theory is that this is Year 2.5 of the rebuild since it officially started with the Muzzin trade. I'm fine with saying that but we can't ignore the fact that the 2017 and '18 drafts also took place under Blake so he's been building the prospect pool for longer than just two drafts with guys from that 2017 draft playing a lot of minutes for the Kings this season (Vilardi/JAD/Anderson).

Expecting playoffs this season after not improving the roster was foolish but hope springs eternal and some actually take Rob Blake at his word when it should be apparent that his actions said he was fine without making the playoffs this season and would prefer more good draft picks. I don't think he can be happy with how the last couple of months went, however, except for the fact that it is helping the draft position.

@Herby

I made that comparison a couple of weeks back about this last stretch of Kings hockey being basically just as bad as that 90's stretch and then the 00's stretch except that I at least preferred 90s style hockey way more than today's game and the 00's at least featured the excitement of Kopitar/Brown/Doughty etc...before they finally made the playoffs. This stretch from 2015-21 has been the least entertaining period of hockey in team history and has been more frustrating because it involves Cup heroes letting us down.

 

[Herby]

i'd give blake, 2 more years. this is year 1 of the rebuild, people are expecting playoffs following a blow up.

The Kings finished 30th in 2019 and 28th last year. Not really sure it's fair to say it's year 1 of the rebuild. And if it is what the hell were the Kings doing the previous 3, trying to contend? LOL

Plus, even if it is a rebuild, there still has to be signs of progress on the ice. The Kings outside of that 6 game winning streak have been pretty awful, despite playing in a division with some really awful teams.

 

[BigKing]

The Kings finished 30th in 2019 and 28th last year. Not really sure it's fair to say it's year 1 of the rebuild. And if it is what the hell were the Kings doing the previous 3, trying to contend? LOL

Plus, even if it is a rebuild, there still has to be signs of progress on the ice. The Kings outside of that 6 game winning streak have been pretty awful, despite playing in a division with some really awful teams.

Yep. I still expected a poor record but I expected like a 6-8 point improvement coupled with lots of encouraging signs: namely T-Mac's system being fully adopted and played correctly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so someone will probably reply to this with a list of encouraging things and, hey, that's fine. My season-long pet peeve of not sticking up for each other and being the softest team in the league--physically and mentally--has not been close to rectified and these guys won't be any good until that changes: no matter how much skill is injected via prospects. I can't get a chub from a late season Vilardi hot streak or the encouraging play of JAD because none of it matters until the systemic culture issues are rectified and I am highly skeptical that the current brain trust are the ones to fix it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Going by the experience of the first big rebuild in 2006, the Kings improved incrementally each season until making the playoffs in 2010.

2006-07: 27-41-14, .415 winning percentage.
2007-08: 32-43-7, .433 winning percentage (Marc Crawford is fired afterwards).
2008-09: 34-37-11, .482 winning percentage (Terry Murray's first season).
2009-10: 46-27-9, .616 winning percentage (first playoff appearance in eight years).

Now, let's look at Todd McLellan's first two seasons behind the bench, which unfortunately have been two incomplete seasons due to uncontrollable circumstances.

2019-20: 29-35-6, .457 winning percentage in 70 games.
2020-21: 21-27-7, .445 winning percentage in 55 games.

I think some necks will be on the line next season. The roster that will close out this dismal season will not be the same that takes the ice to start the 2021-22 season.

 

[Fishhead]

Yeah this year has to be the year steps are made. There are going to be opportunities that aren't usually there because of the flat cap, and there isn't a team in a better spot to take advantage than the Kings. Missing out would be a terrible mistake.

I mean:

Vilardi
JAD
Kupari
Thomas
Fagemo
Kaliyev
Turcotte
Byfield

That's a lot of forwards taken in the top 2 rounds which are highly thought of. All 8 aren't going to fit on the roster at the same time.

On D, there is better balance with only Anderson and Bjornfot as the really young ones. A vet (good, not Maatta) is needed obviously, but with far fewer defensive guys in the pipeline they have time to see if Grans, Faber, Hults, etc. can supplant someone without nuking their value.

I like all the above, but outside of Byfield I don't think any are untouchable. I wouldn't do an Eichel type deal, but they could easily fetch a solid younger D for one of those guys with maybe Walker going the other way. Byfield is untouchable obviously, and it would have to be a heck of a deal for them to trade Vilardi, Kaliyev, or Turcotte. I could see the rest of them moved in a variety of deals.

 

[johnjm22]

The rebuild has gone pretty well so far.

A rebuild doesn't mean you start winning right away. They're supposed to be losing right now.

That doesn't mean Luc/Blake are above criticism, but the rebuild is on track where it should be.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

If I was out there, I am not sure I could resist running him through the boards.

But then again, you might then end up in a Siberian prison as a result.