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Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

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BigKing said:
@Raccoon Jesus

C'mon now with just the points reference. Carrier delivered 213 hits with 9:52 of ice-time per game over 71 last season to go along with the 19 points. Lizotte had 23 points in 65 games with 13:58 of ice time but only 42 hits. Who has more of an impact? Takeaway/Giveaway figures are better for Carrier as well but, and I'll concede this, there is probably some stupidity going on with the stat guy for the home team at T-Mobile.

Points are closer this year with Lizotte still seeing more ice time.

Regardless, I'm not saying Lizotte can't center a 4th line but I need to have some beef on it. The game is really soft compared to what it used to be but the playoffs still go to another level and these clowns haven't even been able to go to another level in a "spirited" regular season game. If my 4th line isn't going to score--which I don't expect a lot of--then I at least need hitting and not being hemmed in the D-zone the entire time. Lizotte is good at getting the puck deep and then trying to go get it but, again, it sucks that he's the first guy in on the forecheck.

Being a defenseman playing against the Kings is a goddamn vacation.
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But again--you're blaming Lizotte for a team building philosophy rather than his own actual play. Then you go on and note he's good at advancing the play (which again corresponds with his advanced stats--best on the team outside the 1st line which is significant for a guy playing with all the worst advanced stats players on the roster). I think you and I actually agree here that it would be awesome to have Lizotte, let's say a full-power Lemieux out there f***ing people up, and a Carrier type. In theory this should be a guy like Wagner but for some reason these guys are all super vanilla, identityless instead of hard-nosed and confident in their roles. Would it be better if Lizotte were 6'3 and could do it himself? He'd probably be a middle six C if he were. I'd argue though that Lizotte makes life harder on the D than you give him credit for--he's a buzzsaw nightmare. it would just be nice if there were a hammer to follow him up.
 
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GoldenBearHockey said:
Again, if Thomas, Kupari, Andersson whomever can't beat Lizotte out, what does that say about them?

You say it's hard to beat out a player for ice time if they are still in the AHL.....but if they aren't beating him out of ice time, that means A. they aren't ready, or B. they aren't better..

Do you think when they are ready they are gonna stay in the AHL because of Blake Lizotte? Literally no one is making that argument.
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So basically Lizotte is a placeholder until one of the kids can replace him...good we all agree then.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
Leipsic was promptly picked up by a contender, did you forget? So we aren't the only ones that saw value in him until he was banished.

Tobias Reider...my god, I hated that guy.

Calling Lizotte a small fast player "with little to no hockey IQ" is, imo, a really really bad characterization.

When those guys need ice time, if they can't beat Lizotte--that's on them, not him. And I really really don't see Thomas, Kupari as long-term 4Cs, those are break-in moves for them.





So you're happy with Carrier for getting 19 points? Great! Lizotte's on pace for more, on a far, far worse team in a bad personal year!

The players themselves, no, Lizotte has an assload more utility than Carrier is my point. Carrier would be great on this team especially with the lack of beef. I'd love a 4th line of dudes running people, I'm with you. I don't see why Lizotte couldn't be the C for that line, but that sounds more like a philosophical difference But again--this is blaming Lizotte for the rest of the roster rather than his own abilities. You comparing Lizotte to a 4th liner on a deep Stanley Cup Favorite should tell you something.
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Lizotte would pass through waivers. Love the guy but he is exactly what he is, a placeholder until he gets replaced. And if we can't replace Lizotte soon, then what does that tell you about our prospect pool??
 
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Man, I’d love to be able to argue that playing Kopitar, Vilardi, Byfield and Turcotte as the 1-4 centers was a good or bad move. Instead, we have to argue about college UFAs who were given spots because the $4M+ players wouldn’t pump their legs hard enough or fall down all time.

Waive Lizotte today and he clears waivers.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
But again--you're blaming Lizotte for a team building philosophy rather than his own actual play. Then you go on and note he's good at advancing the play (which again corresponds with his advanced stats--best on the team outside the 1st line which is significant for a guy playing with all the worst advanced stats players on the roster). I think you and I actually agree here that it would be awesome to have Lizotte, let's say a full-power Lemieux out there f***ing people up, and a Carrier type. In theory this should be a guy like Wagner but for some reason these guys are all super vanilla, identityless instead of hard-nosed and confident in their roles. Would it be better if Lizotte were 6'3 and could do it himself? He'd probably be a middle six C if he were. I'd argue though that Lizotte makes life harder on the D than you give him credit for--he's a buzzsaw nightmare. it would just be nice if there were a hammer to follow him up.
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Yeah: he's not garbage. What I am blaming him for is being tiny and there is no fixing that. Kudos to him for busting his ass to make the NHL.

As for being 6'3" and a middle-six center: you can argue that he isn't even in the NHL because he isn't the same guy that has had to bust his ass every step of the way. Same motor, skills and 6'3? Yeah, he'd be a real player.
 
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DoktorJeep said:
Man, I’d love to be able to argue that playing Kopitar, Vilardi, Byfield and Turcotte as the 1-4 centers was a good or bad move. Instead, we have to argue about college UFAs who were given spots because the $4M+ players wouldn’t pump their legs hard enough or fall down all time.

Waive Lizotte today and he clears waivers.
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Guarantee you Lizotte doesn't clear waivers...not a freaking chance. You guys are so hung up on his size...and I guess what, lack of points, that it blinds you to what he brings to the ice. Name one player with a higher motor than Lizotte right now, EVERY shift. He doesn't take a shift off.....at all, ever. He creates a shit ton of turnovers.... I guarantee you teams wouldn't let him pass through waivers.
 
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DoktorJeep said:
Man, I’d love to be able to argue that playing Kopitar, Vilardi, Byfield and Turcotte as the 1-4 centers was a good or bad move. Instead, we have to argue about college UFAs who were given spots because the $4M+ players wouldn’t pump their legs hard enough or fall down all time.

Waive Lizotte today and he clears waivers.
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No, he wouldn't. He would be claimed by at least a dozen teams, most of which would be contenders.
 
Mats26 said:
So basically Lizotte is a placeholder until one of the kids can replace him...good we all agree then.
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Not one of those players listed pushes Lizotte out of the 4th line role.

They should be pushing Brown down the lineup, but none of them would touch Lizotte in that energy role.
 
Matt13 said:
This is way more Lizotte talk than ever warranted.
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But one thing more is warranted: he's going to be an RFA. To give him more than 1 year would be a mistake....like how they rewarded MacD with 2 years and
now probably wishing they hadn't. I'm sure his agent will want 3 yrs and no way in H. E. double hockey sticks should they do that. I would not give him 2, even.
 
Peter James Bond III said:
But one thing more is warranted: he's going to be an RFA. To give him more than 1 year would be a mistake....like how they rewarded MacD with 2 years and
now probably wishing they hadn't. I'm sure his agent will want 3 yrs and no way in H. E. double hockey sticks should they do that. I would not give him 2, even.
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I'll add, I know I levied criticisms about Lizotte, but I do like him. I certainly don't think he's waiver fodder or a 13th forward.

I do think that if more players played as hard as he, he could absolutely be supplanted. But he's here because he outworks most of the players on the roster. If not as a center, he works as an energy winger.
 
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I mean, yes, if we're talking about Madden, Thomas, et. al. as 4Cs, then sure Lizotte is off the roster--but that's not because he sucks, that would be because literally everything went right above him.

I guess I'm not ready to jettison him because he's clearly a better fit on the 4th line for now and the problems we need to solve are above him, IE Kupari as 4C makes no sense if the middle six still sucks. Big picture, guys.
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Guarantee you Lizotte doesn't clear waivers...not a freaking chance. You guys are so hung up on his size...and I guess what, lack of points, that it blinds you to what he brings to the ice. Name one player with a higher motor than Lizotte right now, EVERY shift. He doesn't take a shift off.....at all, ever. He creates a shit ton of turnovers.... I guarantee you teams wouldn't let him pass through waivers.
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LOL. Heard the same thing about Amadio.
 
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Only thing I can complain about lizzotte is if he's a gatekeeper for other younger players. But he's the least of the kings worries right now
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
And getting rid of Amadio did what to solve our problems?

It's just a whole lot of wasted energy towards the wrong 'problem'.
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Uh, Byfield is in the game in case you hadn't noticed. Oh, that's right, you were one of the ones that thought Amadio was all that.
 
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