Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[funky]

I just think the moves we have to make, will be hard to do. We need a top two defenseman and we need top six scoring forwards. These are some of the hardest things to find.

I really love the make up of our bottom six, once we push some of our top six down to the bottom six, and we are starting to see youth supplement some of the old place holders.
our right side defense is set for years and it looks like there are replacements lined up already in the minors and overseas. Left side we have two young guys that looks really good as bottom for defenseman going forward. We still need that one big guy that can be Drew‘s partner and help run a power-play.

I am actually happy with our goaltending tandem as long as Pederson can continue to carry the load and Quick is still a more than adequate back up. It will do us more good to get a talk to D man then to try and upgrade goaltending at this point.

That leaves us with top six. Right now I truly believe the only player that we have that should be in our top six is Kopitar. I can make an argument for Iafallo as he is a Swiss Army knife.

I love some of the prospects coming up including Byfield and still have a lot of hope for Vilardi. If those two hit then we have three of our top six spots filled alongside Kopitar.

I still think this is the year that Blake has to make a massive splash in free agency, example Landeskog as well as make a key trade for that number to defenseman. Acquiring both those players re-slots our defense players into a very formidable defense. I would move walker in a trade for that number two defenseman and keep Strand, just because I like his size and he won’t play a whole lot of minutes with Doughty and Roy head of him.

 

[funky]

I was feeling under the weather today so I took the time to watch last nights game again. Not that it wasn’t painful enough to watch the first time.

This team really does need a Tortorella type coach to kick their asses. A lot of these guys are way too talented to be missing constant passes and not taking the opportunities to shoot. It looks like they are over analyzing the simple things. It is almost like they have mental fatigue. Now either they are a bunch of princesses or maybe the system just takes too much out of them.

No matter what I do really appreciate players like Iafallo and Moore who constantly play above their skill set. Drew look like he did last year and was trying to hard because no one else was doing anything. People can badmouth him but at least he still cares. I hope quick had a conversation with Peterson after the game because we don’t see him ever pulling that crap. I love Peterson and believe he is our goalie of the future but he like a lot of the others definitely needs an attitude adjustment.

It was a very crappy game but if you sit back and watch the youth it gives reason for optimism.

 

[Kingspiracy]

It is a pipe dream but landing Landeskog in F/A would be exactly what we need. I big bodied power forward with top line skill. Yes he is not a top center or a LH shot Dman but overpaying this guy in free agency allows us to is our trade capital on D. He is also a veteran that could play with a Byfield or give Kopitar that elite winger be has really never had.

I dont know, I'd love to add Landeskog for a couple of years, but the guy is 29 at the end of the year. He will be after a retirement contract.

Hes quite a physical player and would be a prime candidate to just disintegrate in a couple of years.

Id be wary.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I dont know, I'd love to add Landeskog for a couple of years, but the guy is 29 at the end of the year. He will be after a retirement contract.

Hes quite a physical player and would be a prime candidate to just disintegrate in a couple of years.

Id be wary.

Yea I see him as not likely and not the type of move they need although he only costs money. I’d rather overpay Hamilton as I feel him will be more valuable.

 

[King'sPawn]

This completely disregards the situation and is such a false narrative BS...that it' hard to respond to.

DL inherited Kopitar, Brown, and within one season I believe, had Doughty and Quick,

All young, All in the prime.

Tell me the players you think that RB had that are similar.....

Blake's been here for 4 years. Kopitar was 30, and Doughty was 27 when the 2017-18 season began. They weren't over the hill. Lombardi picked top-5 his first season as GM, 2nd overall in his second, outside top 5 his third, and playoffs his fourth. You're acting like they're old and decrepid.

Blake has had a buffer year to pursue the playoffs. But after that buffer year, he has the same progress arc as DL.

But for all those young players Lombardi inherited from DT, Blake inherited the infrastructure and development staff that Lombardi had to establish.

If Blake felt the core was incapable of leading the team, he should have traded them sooner. So all you're spouting is apologist BS. Maybe your refusal to set some semblance of an expectation is why you don't know how to respond? I have been a proponent of keeping vets and developing the prospects to replace them.

The playoffs must be the target next season. I'm not saying they have to be cup contenders. But the 21-22 season will be his fifth season as a GM. That was the goal THIS season.

The expectations are clear: Playoffs the goal for the Kings - LA Kings Insider

At the start of training camp, Blake said that the expectation for this season’s team was to make the playoffs.

So which is it? Did Blake fail to construct a team, or did he fail to assess the team's capability after running it for 3 seasons?

 

[HookKing]

Blake's been here for 4 years. Kopitar was 30, and Doughty was 27 when the 2017-18 season began. They weren't over the hill. Lombardi picked top-5 his first season as GM, 2nd overall in his second, outside top 5 his third, and playoffs his fourth. You're acting like they're old and decrepid.

Blake has had a buffer year to pursue the playoffs. But after that buffer year, he has the same progress arc as DL.

But for all those young players Lombardi inherited from DT, Blake inherited the infrastructure and development staff that Lombardi had to establish.

If Blake felt the core was incapable of leading the team, he should have traded them sooner. So all you're spouting is apologist BS. Maybe your refusal to set some semblance of an expectation is why you don't know how to respond? I have been a proponent of keeping vets and developing the prospects to replace them.

The playoffs must be the target next season. I'm not saying they have to be cup contenders. But the 21-22 season will be his fifth season as a GM. That was the goal THIS season.

The expectations are clear: Playoffs the goal for the Kings - LA Kings Insider



So which is it? Did Blake fail to construct a team, or did he fail to assess the team's capability after running it for 3 seasons?

A lot of the trades DL made are no longer doable due to all the NTC and NMC's out there. Blake is trying to build thru the draft but that only goes so far. Stating that making the playoffs is a goal has always been a joke. What team says their goal is to finish near the bottom?

Apparently the reality of what a rebuild really entails hasn't sunk in to a lot of folks yet.

 

[King'sPawn]

A lot of the trades DL made are no longer doable due to all the NTC and NMC's out there. Blake is trying to build thru the draft but that only goes so far. Stating that making the playoffs is a goal has always been a joke. What team says their goal is to finish near the bottom?

Apparently the reality of what a rebuild really entails hasn't sunk in to a lot of folks yet.

No team states they plan to finish near the bottom. But they also use other language where you can read between the lines.

Even so, that's also why I'm not even hammering the failure to meet the goal this year. But it absolutely must be an actual target next season. And if he misses again, then new management should be considered. Because he's had a year to chase the playoffs and three to rebuild.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Blake's been here for 4 years. Kopitar was 30, and Doughty was 27 when the 2017-18 season began. They weren't over the hill. Lombardi picked top-5 his first season as GM, 2nd overall in his second, outside top 5 his third, and playoffs his fourth. You're acting like they're old and decrepid.

Blake has had a buffer year to pursue the playoffs. But after that buffer year, he has the same progress arc as DL.

But for all those young players Lombardi inherited from DT, Blake inherited the infrastructure and development staff that Lombardi had to establish.

If Blake felt the core was incapable of leading the team, he should have traded them sooner. So all you're spouting is apologist BS. Maybe your refusal to set some semblance of an expectation is why you don't know how to respond? I have been a proponent of keeping vets and developing the prospects to replace them.

The playoffs must be the target next season. I'm not saying they have to be cup contenders. But the 21-22 season will be his fifth season as a GM. That was the goal THIS season.

The expectations are clear: Playoffs the goal for the Kings - LA Kings Insider



So which is it? Did Blake fail to construct a team, or did he fail to assess the team's capability after running it for 3 seasons?

So you acknowledge that Blake did not inherit the same type of players, but you want...the same type of plan/progress....that makes ZERO sense.

He hasn't had the same progress arc as DL, not even close,

Lombardi was hired in 2006, April of that year, so his real work begins 2006-2007

2006-2007 - Out of Playoffs
2007-2008 - Out of Playoffs
2008-2009 - Out of Playoffs
2009-2010 - Lost 1st round
2010-2011 - Lost 1st round
2011-2012 - Won the SC

So it's fair to say the team started to show results in 2009.....prior to that, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 draft years went Lewis, Bernier, Simmonds, Martinez, King, Doughty, Voynov, Schenn, Clifford, Nolan, Forbort, Toffoli.....that ADDED to the core of Kopitar, Brown, Quick, Frolov, Stoll, Greene etc.....guys like Schenn, Simmonds, got Richards etc...

Blake was hired in 2017....4 years ago....

They didn't start the rebuild let's say the Muzzin deal was the first real deal for that rebuild, Jan 28th of 2019

2 years ago.....so if you want to say they are on the same progress arc,

Next year is out of the playoffs.....and 2022-2023 is the "same arc"

I really don't give a f*** who manages the team.....Blake, you, Lombardi, Robitaille, Tom Thumb etc..... but be honest when evaluating the job he's done.

In 2017 when he was hired, his prospect pool was.... what, Kempe, Amadio, MacDermid, Brickley, Auger, etc ?

I guess those are the similar players to what DL inherited....right?

 

[Peter James Bond III]

A lot of the trades DL made are no longer doable due to all the NTC and NMC's out there. Blake is trying to build thru the draft but that only goes so far. Stating that making the playoffs is a goal has always been a joke. What team says their goal is to finish near the bottom?

Apparently the reality of what a rebuild really entails hasn't sunk in to a lot of folks yet.

I agree that building through the draft only goes so far, but as you gain more top tier and next tier draftees, they are all assets. They must be developed and that takes time.
The Kings are adding 2-3 each year of those higher tier draftees now; where before, you had Amadio, Wagner, Luff coming in, there are now a better level prospect tier coming in:
Jad, Bjornfot, Anderson...and about to come on next year - a few of: Byfield, Kaliyev, Thomas (underrated) and Kupari. Clague is decent. Then there is Turcotte, Madden, Fagemo.

Look at the moves DL did, with 3 'higher level draftees' : Schenn and Simmonds were turned into Richards. Johnson (plus draft pick) was turned into Carter. They were 26 and 27 at the time. Blake's real work will be to turn 10 top prospects into at least 6 Kings out of the top draftees and turning about 3-5 into deals for top 6 forward, top 4 defenseman in their prime.

This off season SHOULD see something happen to get at least 1 of those type of veterans in their prime. He has the assets and cap. Problem is, you do not know the REAL value of a Madden...Fagemo...Thomas, etc. where DL pretty much knew the near-to-exact value of Schenn, Simmonds, Johnson. But Blake has the cap and more top tier prospects than DL had to work with.

 

[King'sPawn]

So you acknowledge that Blake did not inherit the same type of players, but you want...the same type of plan/progress....that makes ZERO sense.

He hasn't had the same progress arc as DL, not even close,

Lombardi was hired in 2006, April of that year, so his real work begins 2006-2007

2006-2007 - Out of Playoffs
2007-2008 - Out of Playoffs
2008-2009 - Out of Playoffs
2009-2010 - Lost 1st round
2010-2011 - Lost 1st round
2011-2012 - Won the SC

So it's fair to say the team started to show results in 2009.....prior to that, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 draft years went Lewis, Bernier, Simmonds, Martinez, King, Doughty, Voynov, Schenn, Clifford, Nolan, Forbort, Toffoli.....that ADDED to the core of Kopitar, Brown, Quick, Frolov, Stoll, Greene etc.....guys like Schenn, Simmonds, got Richards etc...

Blake was hired in 2017....4 years ago....

They didn't start the rebuild let's say the Muzzin deal was the first real deal for that rebuild, Jan 28th of 2019

2 years ago.....so if you want to say they are on the same progress arc,

Next year is out of the playoffs.....and 2022-2023 is the "same arc"

I really don't give a f*** who manages the team.....Blake, you, Lombardi, Robitaille, Tom Thumb etc..... but be honest when evaluating the job he's done.

In 2017 when he was hired, his prospect pool was.... what, Kempe, Amadio, MacDermid, Brickley, Auger, etc ?

I guess those are the similar players to what DL inherited....right?

He didn't inherit the same players, but he inherited an infrastructure that DL did not have when he joined.

It may not make sense to you. I'm sorry if the concept of infrastructure and development doesn't make sense.

I am also sorry that, as Blake has said he expected to make tge playoffs THIS year, you still won't hold him accountable if he fails to make the playoffs NEXT year.

But thank you for outlining that after 3 years DL has failed to make the playoffs, the team finally did so. Blake's tenure with the core he inherited is:
17-18 playoffs. Inheriting DL's core
18-19 no playoffs
19-20 no playoffs
20-21 no playoffs

I have been plenty honest with Blake's performance. Feel free to read me praising the work he's done and direction he's taken. Expecting him to make the playoffs next year when he's had 3 years to rebuild, including 2 top-five picks and a top-10 pick this year (plus starting his tenure with an 11th overall pick, like DL) is VERY reasonable.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I agree that building through the draft only goes so far, but as you gain more top tier and next tier draftees, they are all assets. They must be developed and that takes time.
The Kings are adding 2-3 each year of those higher tier draftees now; where before, you had Amadio, Wagner, Luff coming in, there are now a better level prospect tier coming in:
Jad, Bjornfot, Anderson...and about to come on next year - a few of: Byfield, Kaliyev, Thomas (underrated) and Kupari. Clague is decent. Then there is Turcotte, Madden, Fagemo.

Look at the moves DL did, with 3 'higher level draftees' : Schenn and Simmonds were turned into Richards. Johnson (plus draft pick) was turned into Carter. They were 26 and 27 at the time. Blake's real work will be to turn 10 top prospects into at least 6 Kings out of the top draftees and turning about 3-5 into deals for top 6 forward, top 4 defenseman in their prime.

This off season SHOULD see something happen to get at least 1 of those type of veterans in their prime. He has the assets and cap. Problem is, you do not know the REAL value of a Madden...Fagemo...Thomas, etc. where DL pretty much knew the near-to-exact value of Schenn, Simmonds, Johnson. But Blake has the cap and more top tier prospects than DL had to work with.

This exactly....except I would probably say NEXT Off-season, I think they need to see exactly who they want to keep vs what it might cost to get one of those 25-26-27 year olds

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

He didn't inherit the same players, but he inherited an infrastructure that DL did not have when he joined.

It may not make sense to you. I'm sorry if the concept of infrastructure and development doesn't make sense.

I am also sorry that, as Blake has said he expected to make tge playoffs THIS year, you still won't hold him accountable if he fails to make the playoffs NEXT year.

But thank you for outlining that after 3 years DL has failed to make the playoffs, the team finally did so. Blake's tenure with the core he inherited is:
17-18 playoffs. Inheriting DL's core
18-19 no playoffs
19-20 no playoffs
20-21 no playoffs

I have been plenty honest with Blake's performance. Feel free to read me praising the work he's done and direction he's taken. Expecting him to make the playoffs next year when he's had 3 years to rebuild, including 2 top-five picks and a top-10 pick this year (plus starting his tenure with an 11th overall pick, like DL) is VERY reasonable.

3 years to rebuild....so you think the rebuild started in 2018 with the signing of Ilya Kovalchuk?

That maybe where the disconnect is....

 

[King'sPawn]

3 years to rebuild....so you think the rebuild started in 2018 with the signing of Ilya Kovalchuk?

That maybe where the disconnect is....

They traded Muzzin that year. They changed direction midseason. You're being obtuse.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They traded Muzzin that year. They changed direction midseason. You're being obtuse.

They traded Muzzin January what, 28th of 2019......

I'm not being obtuse, I'm being honest....if you think that they started the build in 2018....I don't know what to tell you.... absolutely they changed direction midseason, but you seem to think that means, the rebuild started 6 months before it actually did.

The reason I don't hold Rob Blake to the fire right now....is because he has built the most impressive case of prospects that LA has ever had.....the next 2 years for me, will determine if he is successful or not, he now has to identify which ones to nurture, keep, and develop, and which ones to trade for assets, that's the hard part.

 

[KINGS17]

So you acknowledge that Blake did not inherit the same type of players, but you want...the same type of plan/progress....that makes ZERO sense.

He hasn't had the same progress arc as DL, not even close,

Lombardi was hired in 2006, April of that year, so his real work begins 2006-2007

2006-2007 - Out of Playoffs
2007-2008 - Out of Playoffs
2008-2009 - Out of Playoffs
2009-2010 - Lost 1st round
2010-2011 - Lost 1st round
2011-2012 - Won the SC

So it's fair to say the team started to show results in 2009.....prior to that, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 draft years went Lewis, Bernier, Simmonds, Martinez, King, Doughty, Voynov, Schenn, Clifford, Nolan, Forbort, Toffoli.....that ADDED to the core of Kopitar, Brown, Quick, Frolov, Stoll, Greene etc.....guys like Schenn, Simmonds, got Richards etc...

Blake was hired in 2017....4 years ago....

They didn't start the rebuild let's say the Muzzin deal was the first real deal for that rebuild, Jan 28th of 2019

2 years ago.....so if you want to say they are on the same progress arc,

Next year is out of the playoffs.....and 2022-2023 is the "same arc"

I really don't give a f*** who manages the team.....Blake, you, Lombardi, Robitaille, Tom Thumb etc..... but be honest when evaluating the job he's done.

In 2017 when he was hired, his prospect pool was.... what, Kempe, Amadio, MacDermid, Brickley, Auger, etc ?

I guess those are the similar players to what DL inherited....right?

...and who is responsible for not starting the rebuild until Jan 28, 2019?

I would say it's even money right now the Kings will be out of the playoffs in Blake's first seven seasons, if he lasts that long.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Dave Taylor built the most impressive “case” (?) of prospects that LA ever had and look what happened there.

I can’t wait for Blake to get fired. I’m sure hockey Canada will give him a cushy gig as vice minister of the van pool, while letting him WFH.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

This completely disregards the situation and is such a false narrative BS...that it' hard to respond to.

DL inherited Kopitar, Brown, and within one season I believe, had Doughty and Quick,

All young, All in the prime.

Tell me the players you think that RB had that are similar.....

RB and Luc both said they were cup contenders when they took over. According to them, they inherited a better situation.

 

[DoktorJeep]

RB and Luc both said they were cup contenders when they took over. According to them, they inherited a better situation.

What you going to do, believe your lying eyes?

 

[KINGS17]

RB and Luc both said they were cup contenders when they took over. According to them, they inherited a better situation.

That's the line of BS they sold Uncle Phil to get their jobs.

 

[bland]

This was always going to be the worst year. Losing Martinez, Toffoli, Clifford and Lewis hurt the composure and competitiveness of the roster. There was going to be a lag, it was unavoidable without affecting the longterm plan.

I didn't believe Blake for one second when he said that the playoffs were this years goal. I hope he didn't believe that it either, but he has always had too much faith in the core of the team. It cost him two years on the front of the rebuild, and frankly, if he plans on making them next year he is going to need at least four new veteran players to be added to the roster. And that shouldn't happen.

Next year should be more of the same.

 

[King'sPawn]

They traded Muzzin January what, 28th of 2019......

I'm not being obtuse, I'm being honest....if you think that they started the build in 2018....I don't know what to tell you.... absolutely they changed direction midseason, but you seem to think that means, the rebuild started 6 months before it actually did.

The reason I don't hold Rob Blake to the fire right now....is because he has built the most impressive case of prospects that LA has ever had.....the next 2 years for me, will determine if he is successful or not, he now has to identify which ones to nurture, keep, and develop, and which ones to trade for assets, that's the hard part.

They started the rebuild in the 2018-19 season.

Okay, if you want to give them 6 months grace period, they should be competing the playoffs in January 2023. Fair?

 

[tomd]

Here's the thing...the people who want accountability (and thankfully there are some here) just want to hold Blake to his own promise which was to be playoff competitive in 21-22.

The whole idea of a 5-7 year rebuild made no sense from the very beginning if the plan was to keep Kopitar and resign Doughty. If the plan was to not be competitive until they were ready to retire then what was the point of not trading them back in the great purge of 19-20? The rebuild was always meant to have a 3 year timeline and this summer Blake needs to do some hard work to elevate the on ice product at the NHL level. He's had two top 5 picks in a row which is a luxury not many teams have had. This year he might get a 3rd one. He's done his build from within. Now he needs to use his accumulated assets and cap space to improve the team for the coming year.

 

[King'sPawn]

Here's the thing...the people who want accountability (and thankfully there are some here) just want to hold Blake to his own promise which was to be playoff competitive in 21-22.

The whole idea of a 5-7 year rebuild made no sense from the very beginning if the plan was to keep Kopitar and resign Doughty. If the plan was to not be competitive until they were ready to retire then what was the point of not trading them back in the great purge of 19-20? The rebuild was always meant to have a 3 year timeline and this summer Blake needs to do some hard work to elevate the on ice product at the NHL level. He's had two top 5 picks in a row which is a luxury not many teams have had. This year he might get a 3rd one. He's done his build from within. Now he needs to use his accumulated assets and cap space to improve the team for the coming year.

My opinion is: regardless of the team's outlook, no competent GM should trade their best players out of sheer value. So for that, I don't fault Blake.

The whole purpose of the pipeline is to develop players to supplant the vets. You keep the players who fulfill their roles well and challenge the youth to replace them.

If the players you draft and develop can't outplay aging vets, you either need to evaluate your drafting or your development.

Byfield so far has shown promise, as has JAD up front. Many of the young blueliners like Anderson, Bjornfot, Roy, etc have established themselves as competent mainstays. There are still issues with the blueline, and they should be more experienced and prepared next year.

Up front is pretty messy. I expect JAD, Byfield, and Vilardi will be more consistent and cement themselves. On a phone, but won't get deep into why they get passes from me. Grundstrom, Andersson need to establish their role/identity. Everyone else up front... they are what they are, for better or worse. That's not to say they're bad, but their roles and expectations are fairly easy to establish. They either play their role well/more consistently, or we place the expectations of some prospects (Kaliyev, Fagemo, Thomas, etc) to replace them.

I don't blame Blake for holding onto the core, provided he felt they fit his vision. But he has had a few years to see his vision take hold. If the Kings can't make the playoffs, then he either had a poor vision or he executed it poorly.

 

[tomd]

My opinion is: regardless of the team's outlook, no competent GM should trade their best players out of sheer value. So for that, I don't fault Blake.

The whole purpose of the pipeline is to develop players to supplant the vets. You keep the players who fulfill their roles well and challenge the youth to replace them.

If the players you draft and develop can't outplay aging vets, you either need to evaluate your drafting or your development.

Byfield so far has shown promise, as has JAD up front. Many of the young blueliners like Anderson, Bjornfot, Roy, etc have established themselves as competent mainstays. There are still issues with the blueline, and they should be more experienced and prepared next year.

Up front is pretty messy. I expect JAD, Byfield, and Vilardi will be more consistent and cement themselves. On a phone, but won't get deep into why they get passes from me. Grundstrom, Andersson need to establish their role/identity. Everyone else up front... they are what they are, for better or worse. That's not to say they're bad, but their roles and expectations are fairly easy to establish. They either play their role well/more consistently, or we place the expectations of some prospects (Kaliyev, Fagemo, Thomas, etc) to replace them.

I don't blame Blake for holding onto the core, provided he felt they fit his vision. But he has had a few years to see his vision take hold. If the Kings can't make the playoffs, then he either had a poor vision or he executed it poorly.

I generally agree with your take and I think we are fairly closely aligned. I wasn't advocating trading either Kopitar or Doughty (then or now) but just observing that Blake must have felt that he could do a 3 year rebuild on the fly and still make use of the remaining useful years of both of them. If not then that's where the poor vision comes in.

I still maintain that the internal building has gone as far as it can go unless the team wants to commit to a 5-7 year Buffalo style rebuild with 24-25 as the new goal for the playoffs. Until Blake says otherwise I'll assume that that is not their intention. So the next moves have to be to go outside the organization to get some pieces that they badly need (a top 4 LHD and probably two top 6 forwards).

The next STH meeting is going to be very interesting...Blake will have to lay down his cards on the table. He certainly can't continue to say that the goal for 21-22 is the playoffs and then spend the rest of the summer doing nothing to make that goal possible.

 

[Johnny Utah]

My only issue with Blake is who does he run things by now? Murray? Emerson? He has no assistant GM in Futa or Hextall. Is McConnell still an advisor?

Also, another thing that irks me is that no prospect or even middle age player (mid 20s) has been able to really emerge under TM so far. Sure the D prospects seem to prosper like Mickey A, Roy, TB, and Walker...but no forward prospect has exploded...

JAD and Vilardi both started hot and fizzled, Frk is in the AHL, Iafallo has does nothing since his contract, Lizotte is the new Amadio, Tank (Grunny) has been is in and out of the line up. Wagner had a good first year last year and now in and out of line up (two mediocre years under TM). Luff is barely a spare part. Andersson gets barely any ice time. I guess Kempe is the only player to do anything.