Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[KINGS17]

My opinion is: regardless of the team's outlook, no competent GM should trade their best players out of sheer value. So for that, I don't fault Blake.

The whole purpose of the pipeline is to develop players to supplant the vets. You keep the players who fulfill their roles well and challenge the youth to replace them.

If the players you draft and develop can't outplay aging vets, you either need to evaluate your drafting or your development.

Byfield so far has shown promise, as has JAD up front. Many of the young blueliners like Anderson, Bjornfot, Roy, etc have established themselves as competent mainstays. There are still issues with the blueline, and they should be more experienced and prepared next year.

Up front is pretty messy. I expect JAD, Byfield, and Vilardi will be more consistent and cement themselves. On a phone, but won't get deep into why they get passes from me. Grundstrom, Andersson need to establish their role/identity. Everyone else up front... they are what they are, for better or worse. That's not to say they're bad, but their roles and expectations are fairly easy to establish. They either play their role well/more consistently, or we place the expectations of some prospects (Kaliyev, Fagemo, Thomas, etc) to replace them.

I don't blame Blake for holding onto the core, provided he felt they fit his vision. But he has had a few years to see his vision take hold. If the Kings can't make the playoffs, then he either had a poor vision or he executed it poorly.

...and yet Dean's first move was trading the team's best forward in Demitra who scored 62 points in 58 games the prior season. Who supplanted Demitra?

 

[DoktorJeep]

Blake’s execution of strategy has results on par with this gentleman so far.

 

[Johnny Utah]

...and yet Dean's first move was trading the team's best forward in Demitra who scored 62 points in 58 games the prior season. Who supplanted Demitra?

RIP Demitra. Met him, Parros and Lubo after a pre season game at a bar in MB. They signed my ticket - all great guys.

 

[King'sPawn]

...and yet Dean's first move was trading the team's best forward in Demitra who scored 62 points in 58 games the prior season. Who supplanted Demitra?

He didn't fit Lombardi's vision. He wasn't just traded to recoup value.

One of Lombardi's first statements were identifying players who didn't play due to being hurt versus players who were injured. Note that he played 58 games.

Demitra often missed games and was clearly part of the group Lombardi felt didn't fit with what he wanted to achieve.

Edit: here's part of what he said from the onset of joining

Was it simply bad luck, or was there a fundamental reason behind the Kings league-high injuries of the past few seasons? --Randy from Los Angeles, CA
I think it's partly bad luck. But I also think that knowing the difference between being injured and being hurt is part of the culture and I think that's something we can improve on.

ASK A KING: DEAN LOMBARDI

 

[Reclamation Project]

All I hear about the Ottawa Senators is how they are currently rebuilding but they compete every single night. They were relentlessly mocked the last few years, but they went from a Stanley Cup contender to total teardown to later stage rebuilding team in a couple years. I don't watch their games, but all I hear is positive things about their identity. How can the Kings be so awful and so apathetic after the alumni running this team say we were going to compete for the playoffs? If St. Louis didn't fall asleep at the wheel for 2 months the Kings wouldn't have been anywhere near the discussion. Their offense is horrible as usual, one of the worst in the league, and their defense is average at best. I expect the Pacific to be pretty lousy next season so the only way the Kings will be a playoff team is them backing into the final spot. Anaheim, Calgary, San Jose, Seattle, and LA will all be very lousy teams. Vegas will walk away with it and Edmonton and Vancouver should have strong seasons. The Kings won't be a playoff team on merit that's for sure. I'm very concerned with how absolutely wretched the offense on this team continues to be.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

All I hear about the Ottawa Senators is how they are currently rebuilding but they compete every single night. They were relentlessly mocked the last few years, but they went from a Stanley Cup contender to total teardown to later stage rebuilding team in a couple years. I don't watch their games, but all I hear is positive things about their identity. How can the Kings be so awful and so apathetic after the alumni running this team say we were going to compete for the playoffs? If St. Louis didn't fall asleep at the wheel for 2 months the Kings wouldn't have been anywhere near the discussion. Their offense is horrible as usual, one of the worst in the league, and their defense is average at best. I expect the Pacific to be pretty lousy next season so the only way the Kings will be a playoff team is them backing into the final spot. Anaheim, Calgary, San Jose, Seattle, and LA will all be very lousy teams. Vegas will walk away with it and Edmonton and Vancouver should have strong seasons. The Kings won't be a playoff team on merit that's for sure. I'm very concerned with how absolutely wretched the offense on this team continues to be.

If you're comparing Ottawa's roster to ours--the bulk of their roster is comprised of guys drafted 2015 and earlier. They've been at it for a while, and have only recently started supplementing with recent youth (TS obviously, but Tkachuk and Norris are 21, Batherson 22. Chabot, 24. Etc). On our team, those guys are Vilardi, JAD, and Mikey Anderson. In other words, the rebuild players won't "hit" for another year or two, so from a 'rebuild' comparison, we can't even give our guys roster grades yet. We should see more start hitting with Kupari et. al. soon.

But re: identity, yeah, I think we're all on the same page.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Here's the thing...the people who want accountability (and thankfully there are some here) just want to hold Blake to his own promise which was to be playoff competitive in 21-22.

The whole idea of a 5-7 year rebuild made no sense from the very beginning if the plan was to keep Kopitar and resign Doughty. If the plan was to not be competitive until they were ready to retire then what was the point of not trading them back in the great purge of 19-20? The rebuild was always meant to have a 3 year timeline and this summer Blake needs to do some hard work to elevate the on ice product at the NHL level. He's had two top 5 picks in a row which is a luxury not many teams have had. This year he might get a 3rd one. He's done his build from within. Now he needs to use his accumulated assets and cap space to improve the team for the coming year.

The plan wasn't to rebuild with Kopitar and Doughty. That's why they were both re-signed. And of course neither was going anywhere in 19-20, because they both had full NMCs, and are both exceedingly comfortable here. Doughty might care more about winning than Kopitar, but he's not going to go just anywhere. If he didn't have the Cups, maybe he would, but unless it's Toronto, where's he going? You're not getting a 20 year old top 1C prospect for a 30+ year old Kopitar with a $10m hit for half a decade. Even at 50%, because you'd want to add Kopitar to the young 1C.

Everything since June 2014 has been at least bad timing. The Kopitar and Doughty contracts, when they signed them, are good examples of that. As soon as they put their names on paper, the team went to crap. That happened with Quick, Brown, and Gaborik too. Quick and Brown were on the individual level though. Quick didn't have a great 12-13 regular season. Brown's deal kicked in for 14-15, and we all know the story there, but Brown stopped scoring in the last year of his previous deal, and he signed the current one in July 2013, which is when his offense fell off a cliff. Gaborik was good for a year, but the team wasn't, and then he soon followed.

All I hear about the Ottawa Senators is how they are currently rebuilding but they compete every single night. They were relentlessly mocked the last few years, but they went from a Stanley Cup contender to total teardown to later stage rebuilding team in a couple years. I don't watch their games, but all I hear is positive things about their identity. How can the Kings be so awful and so apathetic after the alumni running this team say we were going to compete for the playoffs? If St. Louis didn't fall asleep at the wheel for 2 months the Kings wouldn't have been anywhere near the discussion. Their offense is horrible as usual, one of the worst in the league, and their defense is average at best. I expect the Pacific to be pretty lousy next season so the only way the Kings will be a playoff team is them backing into the final spot. Anaheim, Calgary, San Jose, Seattle, and LA will all be very lousy teams. Vegas will walk away with it and Edmonton and Vancouver should have strong seasons. The Kings won't be a playoff team on merit that's for sure. I'm very concerned with how absolutely wretched the offense on this team continues to be.

Kopitar, 33 years old
Doughty, 31
Brown, 36
Kempe, 24
Iafallo, 27

Tkachuk, 21
Batherson, 23
Norris, 21
Chabot, 24
Brown, 27

There's your biggest difference. The young guys have the team in Ottawa. It's still the old guard here. The only guy that Blake has brought to the team in that top 5 is Iafallo. Ottawa got to trade Karlsson, and Stone, and all the rest, because a), they're cheap, and 2) they had no burden of success to pay for. They even got to even out with the pick situation. They screwed up with the pick in the Duchene deal, but they lucked out with the pick they got from SJ.

 

[Bandit]

Are we seriously bitching that we’re not Ottawa? Jeeeezus.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They started the rebuild in the 2018-19 season.

Okay, if you want to give them 6 months grace period, they should be competing the playoffs in January 2023. Fair?

Which is what I've been saying all along, 2022-2023, you were fixated on 2021-2022 for some inexplicable reason

 

[Mats26]

Anyone comparing the timelines of the DL rebuild to Blake's timeline does not understand the fundamentals of a rebuild and what was DL's plan in the first place.
What DL did was to bring a cup to LA. Remember what he said to Doughty at the draft, "you are going to bring us a cup". That was it, he did not plan for 10+ years he just wanted a cup. The fans , the organization was straving for one, and we got 2. I don't think following what DL did now is the plan for Blake. I really think this team needs to be competive every year, a good team first, build a culture but alwas keep the 4 keys in mind.

4 Keys to a rebuild:
Good managment, good coaching, drafting and developement and I will add Patience.
If any one of those keys are missing then you can end up like the Sabres , Detroit even the Oilers or make stupid TDL moves like the BlueJacket did a fews year back just to win a playoff round.

Good teams who are tuning in and becoming great like the Canes and Pathers have been patient and have now excelled in all 4 areas. I'll add the Avs in here too. And yes they were bubble teams for a while. I think our goal is to make it to the Canes, Panthers tier. Good solid teams with young players and a nice prospect pool, good coaching, management etc.. That is still years away.

I guess my point is, there is no timeline for this rebuild. Past success should be analyzed but not duplicated, it might not work as expected. We need to build up assets and form the culture, adding the right pieces along the way. Any talk of us going for the cup in 3 years is nonsense unless we dump our picks and assets for a run.

 

[King'sPawn]

Which is what I've been saying all along, 2022-2023, you were fixated on 2021-2022 for some inexplicable reason

I was being sarcastic. You can't be competing in the playoffs in January.

So if you want to give Blake 6 more months than what Lombardi had, that's on you. If he misses, that would be three straight years of missing the playoffs since it was his goal.

And I'm not "fixated" on a particular year. However, GMs don't often get fired midseason. So, whomever replaces Blake, whenever that is, will have to set forth his own vision, decides if he wants to rebuild/compete, etc.

You want to give him three chances to miss the playoffs when it was his target/goal. I want to give him two.

 

[King'sPawn]

Anyone comparing the timelines of the DL rebuild to Blake's timeline does not understand the fundamentals of a rebuild and what was DL's plan in the first place.
What DL did was to bring a cup to LA. Remember what he said to Doughty at the draft, "you are going to bring us a cup". That was it, he did not plan for 10+ years he just wanted a cup. The fans , the organization was straving for one, and we got 2. I don't think following what DL did now is the plan for Blake. I really think this team needs to be competive every year, a good team first, build a culture but alwas keep the 4 keys in mind.

4 Keys to a rebuild:
Good managment, good coaching, drafting and developement and I will add Patience.
If any one of those keys are missing then you can end up like the Sabres , Detroit even the Oilers or make stupid TDL moves like the BlueJacket did a fews year back just to win a playoff round.

Good teams who are tuning in and becoming great like the Canes and Pathers have been patient and have now excelled in all 4 areas. I'll add the Avs in here too. And yes they were bubble teams for a while. I think our goal is to make it to the Canes, Panthers tier. Good solid teams with young players and a nice prospect pool, good coaching, management etc.. That is still years away.

I guess my point is, there is no timeline for this rebuild. Past success should be analyzed but not duplicated, it might not work as expected. We need to build up assets and form the culture, adding the right pieces along the way. Any talk of us going for the cup in 3 years is nonsense unless we dump our picks and assets for a run.

This is all well and good, but aren't targets to make the playoffs reasonable? If yes, how much leash do you give Blake until you decide he isn't working out.

 

[KINGS17]

Anyone comparing the timelines of the DL rebuild to Blake's timeline does not understand the fundamentals of a rebuild and what was DL's plan in the first place.
What DL did was to bring a cup to LA. Remember what he said to Doughty at the draft, "you are going to bring us a cup". That was it, he did not plan for 10+ years he just wanted a cup. The fans , the organization was straving for one, and we got 2. I don't think following what DL did now is the plan for Blake. I really think this team needs to be competive every year, a good team first, build a culture but alwas keep the 4 keys in mind.

4 Keys to a rebuild:
Good managment, good coaching, drafting and developement and I will add Patience.
If any one of those keys are missing then you can end up like the Sabres , Detroit even the Oilers or make stupid TDL moves like the BlueJacket did a fews year back just to win a playoff round.

Good teams who are tuning in and becoming great like the Canes and Pathers have been patient and have now excelled in all 4 areas. I'll add the Avs in here too. And yes they were bubble teams for a while. I think our goal is to make it to the Canes, Panthers tier. Good solid teams with young players and a nice prospect pool, good coaching management etc.. That is still years away.

I guess my point is, there is no timeline for this rebuild. Past success should be analyzed but not duplicated, it might not work as expected. We need to build up assets and form the culture, adding the right pieces along the way. Any talk of us going for the cup in 3 years is nonsense unless we dump our picks and assets for a run.

If the Kings aren't going to contend in three years, what is the point of having Kopitar and Doughty on the roster?

It can't be selling tickets, because I guarantee you if the Kings aren't winning, Kings attendance will be way down. The Kings are lucky to not be suffering the embarrassment of low attendance at this time. Only COVID saved them from it.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I was being sarcastic. You can't be competing in the playoffs in January.

So if you want to give Blake 6 more months than what Lombardi had, that's on you. If he misses, that would be three straight years of missing the playoffs since it was his goal.

And I'm not "fixated" on a particular year. However, GMs don't often get fired midseason. So, whomever replaces Blake, whenever that is, will have to set forth his own vision, decides if he wants to rebuild/compete, etc.

You want to give him three chances to miss the playoffs when it was his target/goal. I want to give him two.

You absolutely are fixated on a particular year....you are comparing what DL did...to what RB is doing and you are fixated on a particular year as the starting point etc...

Absolutely you can be competing for playoffs in January...the take that you can't is absolutely idiotic at best.....I mean...what?

DL had 6 years.....before he won.....you are giving RB 2....congrats.

 

[tomd]

You absolutely are fixated on a particular year....you are comparing what DL did...to what RB is doing and you are fixated on a particular year as the starting point etc...

Absolutely you can be competing for playoffs in January...the take that you can't is absolutely idiotic at best.....I mean...what?

DL had 6 years.....before he won.....you are giving RB 2....congrats.

Blake himself set 21-22 as the year to target a return to the playoffs. Is it wrong to be fixated on a date that the GM himself has set? Shouldn't he be accountable for his own words?

 

[bland]

This is all well and good, but aren't targets to make the playoffs reasonable? If yes, how much leash do you give Blake until you decide he isn't working out.

This year and next, no, its not reasonable.

Blake's legacy will be judged on his regime's ability to develop the picks he gathered, not if the team makes the playoffs during the infancy of the process.

Clearly Blake felt that the core was first still able to challenge, and he was wrong. Then he thought that they would be competitive with them while developing the kids. Wrong there too.

The problem is, and I have been saying this for 11 years now, is that this core is deeply flawed and is not capable of pulling its own weight, much less a whole team on its shoulders. Great guys, just the wrong ones to build a team around. They needed outside leadership and competitiveness brought in to just to get out of the first round much less win the Cup. Now it's obvious that they need it yo be brought in again just to get through a season without collapsing in on themselves.

I know you love Kopitar, I do too - as a player. He is simply not the kind of person who inspires others to be the best they can be. You need more than an example to point at during this period of change, that example needs to lead from the front, not the side. His 5 on 5 work has been the worst of his career at the worst time.

Brown is done. He has to go. You can't have a "leader" who only cherry picks at this stage of his career. He continually blows coverages, turns over pucks at key stages, ignores board battles, essentially he only puts himself in position to score while doing very little of it. This is no example to set, he is just a mascot for the fans to cheer when he stumbles upon a goal now and then.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Blake himself set 21-22 as the year to target a return to the playoffs. Is it wrong to be fixated on a date that the GM himself has set? Shouldn't he be accountable for his own words?

Absolutely.....whose fault is it this team didn't compete for the playoffs this year? Because there points of the season that were brilliant.....

Are you saying Minnesota and Phoenix have better rosters?

Kings missing the playoffs this year, is 100% on the players, not on Blake, if you want to say Blake didn't acquire the right players....ok fine, then explain the games they have been dominant in....

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

He didn't fit Lombardi's vision. He wasn't just traded to recoup value.

One of Lombardi's first statements were identifying players who didn't play due to being hurt versus players who were injured. Note that he played 58 games.

Demitra often missed games and was clearly part of the group Lombardi felt didn't fit with what he wanted to achieve.

Edit: here's part of what he said from the onset of joining



ASK A KING: DEAN LOMBARDI

God, I miss Lombardi.

 

[tomd]

Absolutely.....whose fault is it this team didn't compete for the playoffs this year? Because there points of the season that were brilliant.....

Are you saying Minnesota and Phoenix have better rosters?

Kings missing the playoffs this year, is 100% on the players, not on Blake, if you want to say Blake didn't acquire the right players....ok fine, then explain the games they have been dominant in....

I don't think anyone expected the Kings to make the playoffs this year nor did Blake himself set that as a goal. The point for this year (20-21) is that there was very little evidence of progression towards the playoffs next year. None of the vaunted youth really stepped forward this year and established themselves. Blake didn't make any trades to bring in the players he admits he needs. A culture of losing seems to have settled in once again.

I remain focused on what Blake tells the STH this summer. Will he continue to set 21-22 as a return to the playoffs goal or will he push it off until some distant year? Will he tell the STH what the plan is to return the team to being competitive again? Is it just to finish in the bottom 5 every year and draft high? What is the plan??

 

[King'sPawn]

You absolutely are fixated on a particular year....you are comparing what DL did...to what RB is doing and you are fixated on a particular year as the starting point etc...

Absolutely you can be competing for playoffs in January...the take that you can't is absolutely idiotic at best.....I mean...what?

DL had 6 years.....before he won.....you are giving RB 2....congrats.

There are no playoffs in January. You aren't competing in them. This isn't a difficult concept. You can not be a bottom-dweller, and if you're giving Blake ANOTHER two years not to be a bottom dweller by January, then there's no discussing anything.

Though frankly, there's no discussing anything with you anyway, since you continue to lie about my stance.

It took DL six years to win the cup.

Where the **** did I say I expect Blake to win the cup? I'm not giving Blake 2 years to win the cup. I'm giving him two seasons from when he said HE EXPECTS THE TEAM TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS to actually make the playoffs.

If he cannot make the playoffs next year when he said the team should be making it THIS year, then he should not be running the team.

Apparently you'll be happy if the team isn't mathematically eliminated from the playoffs in January 2023. Very freaking low bar. But considering the lack of quality in your posts, it explains a lot.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

There are no playoffs in January. You aren't competing in them. This isn't a difficult concept. You can not be a bottom-dweller, and if you're giving Blake ANOTHER two years not to be a bottom dweller by January, then there's no discussing anything.

Though frankly, there's no discussing anything with you anyway, since you continue to lie about my stance.

It took DL six years to win the cup.

Where the **** did I say I expect Blake to win the cup? I'm not giving Blake 2 years to win the cup. I'm giving him two seasons from when he said HE EXPECTS THE TEAM TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS to actually make the playoffs.

If he cannot make the playoffs next year when he said the team should be making it THIS year, then he should not be running the team.

Apparently you'll be happy if the team isn't mathematically eliminated from the playoffs in January 2023. Very freaking low bar. But considering the lack of quality in your posts, it explains a lot.

Misread you, but yea, no f***ing shit there are no playoffs in January, but a team can sure as hell be competing FOR them..which is what I said...

No one said that you said you expected Blake to win the cup, but you are judging Blake's moves/timeline, by comparing it to Lombardi......and failing absolutely miserably at it. You completely ignore the two completely different situations each where in....

I get it, you don't like Blake....but again, be honest with your posts...

Had to edit this, hit the post before I was ready...

But I will reiterate, whose fault is this years team not making the playoffs, Blakes....or the players? And yea, you can say Blake didn't bring in the right players, but we've seen this team be absolutely dominant....so that doesn't really point to not bringing in the right players

 

[SFKingshomer]

There's no chance TB trades Sergachev or any other team moves their top notch defenseman because they are way too tough to replace. I could see TB or someone include a D prospect to take a bad contract. Cal Foote to take on Tyler Johnson or something similar.

 

[King'sPawn]

This year and next, no, its not reasonable.

Blake's legacy will be judged on his regime's ability to develop the picks he gathered, not if the team makes the playoffs during the infancy of the process.

Clearly Blake felt that the core was first still able to challenge, and he was wrong. Then he thought that they would be competitive with them while developing the kids. Wrong there too.

The problem is, and I have been saying this for 11 years now, is that this core is deeply flawed and is not capable of pulling its own weight, much less a whole team on its shoulders. Great guys, just the wrong ones to build a team around. They needed outside leadership and competitiveness brought in to just to get out of the first round much less win the Cup. Now it's obvious that they need it yo be brought in again just to get through a season without collapsing in on themselves.

I know you love Kopitar, I do too - as a player. He is simply not the kind of person who inspires others to be the best they can be. You need more than an example to point at during this period of change, that example needs to lead from the front, not the side. His 5 on 5 work has been the worst of his career at the worst time.

Brown is done. He has to go. You can't have a "leader" who only cherry picks at this stage of his career. He continually blows coverages, turns over pucks at key stages, ignores board battles, essentially he only puts himself in position to score while doing very little of it. This is no example to set, he is just a mascot for the fans to cheer when he stumbles upon a goal now and then.

I know we disagree a lot, and I appreciate the thought.

If Blake were outside the organization, I'd give him more leeway. However, he usurped Lombardi with the knowledge of what he had already. He's known the players and their mental makeup.

He absolutely needs to be held accountable for his own targets and to instill his vision.

He has had four seasons now to show us. If he can't make the playoffs next when he expected them to compete THIS year, then I feel he has lost the chance to demonstrate his judgment.

I give him credit for restocking the cupboards and being patient. But Lombardi literally built the developmental system at play and left Blake with the same staff he won with. He has to do more than restocking for five years, especially when he himself expected better results this year.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

There's no chance TB trades Sergachev or any other team moves their top notch defenseman because they are way too tough to replace. I could see TB or someone include a D prospect to take a bad contract. Cal Foote to take on Tyler Johnson or something similar.

Depends, Sergachev was traded, Jones was traded, Hamilton was traded, Weber and Subban were traded, etc....

Really just depends on circumstance and price.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Seems like most fans are coming to realize this team is 1-3 years away from making the playoffs. I personally think it’s more like 4-6, but I have no faith in current management outside of scouting. To make it next year requires significant upgrades via trade and / or UFA. Expecting to make the playoffs next year on the back of the current depth chart is hard to fathom.

Looking at next seasons roster, you have to break down the players according to contract and how they fit into the long term vision of the team. I think in this case, long term means the next 3 years down the road. Here’s how I view the breakdown.

Long term players. AKA the core of the team.

Kopitar
Iafallo
Kempe
Byfield
Vilardi

Doughty
Roy
Anderson
Bjornfot

Petersen

There are a few players in the mix to be included in that list, but I think their current usage / production might be their high ceiling. This prevents them from being a piece of the long term core.

JAD
Lemieux
Andersson

Walker

Positionally, the holes are at top six wing and #2 D. Out of the current prospects, Kaliyev and Turcotte are closest to making the NHL as a wing, but I think at most, one of them grabs a full time spot at the start of next year. Likely Kaliyev. #2 D is a hole in the organization, so addressing that via acquisition makes sense.

The UFA market is no slam dunk for either a key piece at winger or D. The trade route is riskier and more complicated, but also provides a better selection of players.

Over this offseason, I think Blake will try to make one significant trade to get either a top six goal scoring wing or a #2 D. The winger is the most likely result based on a wider availability. After that, I think he’ll wait till close to camp to sign a bargain bin UFA D.