Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[BigKing]

Lizotte projects to a 6 goal, 20 point season this year. If he gets a new contract with the Kings, it should not be much of a raise over his current ELC, if at all.

AA had to take a $1.2MM prove-it deal after basically being .50 PPG last season and a 30 goal scorer the year prior.

I don't really want two midgets in my bottom six and really only feel there is room for one. I know he is older but I'd rather extend Moore as he is a bit larger and has shown more offensive upside than Lizotte during his time in LA.

 

[BigKing]

What exactly is a low-event player?

A guy that plays a shift and nothing much happens: good or bad.

Appreciate the guys hustle but that's mostly all he is and we can't confuse hustle with results.

The reason why he has the support that he does on here is that the team has been so listless for a few years now that hustle gets confused with results. Leipsic is another example of this. Like, Lizotte has to work that hard just to be on an NHL roster but--even when working that hard--it doesn't lead to much in the way of tangible results. It pleases your eyes to see a guy hustle but, then again, two of his strides are one Kopitar stride etc.

I can appreciate how hard he works and the idea that it is good for the locker room and for the young guys coming up to see someone put in the work: it is the same argument for MacDermid and they were both mentioned for this in the same breath by Management during the off season. As the team tries to transition to actually being a good team, however, placeholders like this will need to make way for hopefully better players.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

A guy that plays a shift and nothing much happens: good or bad.

Appreciate the guys hustle but that's mostly all he is and we can't confuse hustle with results.

The reason why he has the support that he does on here is that the team has been so listless for a few years now that hustle gets confused with results. Leipsic is another example of this. Like, Lizotte has to work that hard just to be on an NHL roster but--even when working that hard--it doesn't lead to much in the way of tangible results. It pleases your eyes to see a guy hustle but, then again, two of his strides are one Kopitar stride etc.

I can appreciate how hard he works and the idea that it is good for the locker room and for the young guys coming up to see someone put in the work: it is the same argument for MacDermid and they were both mentioned for this in the same breath by Management during the off season. As the team tries to transition to actually being a good team, however, placeholders like this will need to make way for hopefully better players.

I guess there is where we disagree, every shift he is creating something through his forecheck....

 

[KingsFan7824]

Of the 22 guys that were or would've been contributors on the 11-12 playoff roster, 36.4% were drafted by DL, 36.4% were acquired by him through trade, 13.6% were signed as free agents, and 13.6% were inherited draft choices. You could give DL credit for developing Quick though.

Of the top 6, two of them were draft picks, neither by DL. Four of them were traded for. Of the top 4D, none were traded for. Hell, two of the bottom 6 were afterthoughts.

 

[lumbergh]

What exactly is a low-event player?

Just means nothing much happens when he's on the ice. Nothing bad, nothing good. Career < 2.0 GF/60, < 2.0 GA/60 5vs5. He's not Nick Shore-level boring, not passive, but pretty much just doesn't bringing anything special.

 

[bland]

A guy that plays a shift and nothing much happens: good or bad.

Appreciate the guys hustle but that's mostly all he is and we can't confuse hustle with results.

The reason why he has the support that he does on here is that the team has been so listless for a few years now that hustle gets confused with results. Leipsic is another example of this. Like, Lizotte has to work that hard just to be on an NHL roster but--even when working that hard--it doesn't lead to much in the way of tangible results. It pleases your eyes to see a guy hustle but, then again, two of his strides are one Kopitar stride etc.

I can appreciate how hard he works and the idea that it is good for the locker room and for the young guys coming up to see someone put in the work: it is the same argument for MacDermid and they were both mentioned for this in the same breath by Management during the off season. As the team tries to transition to actually being a good team, however, placeholders like this will need to make way for hopefully better players.

Lizotte consistently gets pucks deep into the offensive zone, pressures the defense, takes pressure off of his own defense, builds positive momentum and changes the tone of the game in favor of his team.

That is ideal - and very tangible - results from a fourth line player.

This fan base suffers from unrealistic expectations placed upon role players. Its nothing new, top players underperform and instead of holding them accountable the rath is placed on those who actually perform their more limited roles admirably.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Lizotte consistently gets pucks deep into the offensive zone, pressures the defense, takes pressure off of his own defense, builds positive momentum and changes the tone of the game in favor of his team.

That is ideal - and very tangible - results from a fourth line player.

This fan base suffers from unrealistic expectations placed upon role players. Its nothing new, top players underperform and instead of holding them accountable the rath is placed on those who actually perform their more limited roles admirably.

Right, and like i said above, the point that no one making these arguments EVER addresses--20 points would be GOOD 4th line production, not just 'normal'. MORE than 20 is excellent, borderline league best. So if BL is having a 'bad' year, he's a damn good 4th liner in his 'off' times. Not to mention the best advanced stats of anyone not on the 1st line--which is significant because that means Lizotte is the common factor in those results since no one else he plays with touches him in that regard.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when people suggest he doesn't do anything tangible or special. He's got more identity than ANYONE in that bottom six, comparing him to Shore et. al. is nuts.

I'm over here worried about Clague but I wouldn't be very surprised to see Seattle snag Lizotte.

 

[bland]

Right, and like i said above, the point that no one making these arguments EVER addresses--20 points would be GOOD 4th line production, not just 'normal'. MORE than 20 is excellent, borderline league best. So if BL is having a 'bad' year, he's a damn good 4th liner in his 'off' times. Not to mention the best advanced stats of anyone not on the 1st line--which is significant because that means Lizotte is the common factor in those results since no one else he plays with touches him in that regard.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when people suggest he doesn't do anything tangible or special. He's got more identity than ANYONE in that bottom six, comparing him to Shore et. al. is nuts.

There is a damn good reason why McLellan goes with Lizotte's line right after goals against and killed penalties. He has a positive effect on the game.

Its frustrating seeing that undervalued.

 

[BigKing]

Lizotte consistently gets pucks deep into the offensive zone, pressures the defense, takes pressure off of his own defense, builds positive momentum and changes the tone of the game in favor of his team.

That is ideal - and very tangible - results from a fourth line player.

This fan base suffers from unrealistic expectations placed upon role players. Its nothing new, top players underperform and instead of holding them accountable the rath is placed on those who actually perform their more limited roles admirably.

This shouldn't be that difficult though and is kind of my point: this part of his game sticks out because we have so many plugs that can't simply chase a puck in to the corner and then do a fly-by once they are down there.

I want a lot of guys that can do this but I want them to not be 5'7". It isn't a knock on him as a player and, again, I don't really dislike him or anything and appreciate the effort but I would prefer someone that could actually hurt someone on a forecheck. Give me a William Carrier type on the 4th line every time over a Lizotte type.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This shouldn't be that difficult though and is kind of my point: this part of his game sticks out because we have so many plugs that can't simply chase a puck in to the corner and then do a fly-by once they are down there.

I want a lot of guys that can do this but I want them to not be 5'7". It isn't a knock on him as a player and, again, I don't really dislike him or anything and appreciate the effort but I would prefer someone that could actually hurt someone on a forecheck. Give me a William Carrier type on the 4th line every time over a Lizotte type.

I think Lizotte does everything BUT crush people but his willingness to get in there and GET crushed to make plays is unique and endearing.

I'd take Lizotte over Carrier every day of the week for the rest of my f***ing life, but yeah, I'd love that guy in addition to Blake. Lemieux may be him yet.

But to the boldfaced, I think it's silly to 'punish' Lizotte for being good at this and if anything this board is underselling how important that is NOT because we have guys that can't do it but rather because we were spoiled by guys that can on all lines (ie King, Lewis, etc).

 

[Bandit]

I guess there is where we disagree, every shift he is creating something through his forecheck....

Yeah, he’s creating friction on the ice with his ass by falling down 4 times a shift.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah, he’s creating friction on the ice with his ass by falling down 4 times a shift.

See? He's good for AEG's ice budget, too!

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yeah, he’s creating friction on the ice with his ass by falling down 4 times a shift.

If that's your only takeaway, then nothing is gonna convince you, so it is what is, and that's an absolute bullshit take.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Like many players here right now, Lizotte is an experiment. Is he a 4C on a playoff team? Contender? Nobody can say yes or no definitively. He's got no prior history in the league. He's only been on a bad team here. Is the perception of him, either way, somewhat a victim of constant losing?

 

[Master Yoda]

If that's your only takeaway, then nothing is gonna convince you, so it is what is, and that's an absolute bullshit take.

IMO he's regressed since last year. Last year he created more chances except he had no finish and was falling down every other shift.
This year, he's falling down less, but creating less chances and still has no finish. I was hoping his offense would improve from last year but it didn't and to me it became a little worse.
He really should have been in Ontario last year to develop his offensive game more.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think today counts as a national holiday for Kings fans.

 

[Pucknut50]

Lizotte projects to a 6 goal, 20 point season this year. If he gets a new contract with the Kings, it should not be much of a raise over his current ELC, if at all.

AA had to take a $1.2MM prove-it deal after basically being .50 PPG last season and a 30 goal scorer the year prior.

I don't really want two midgets in my bottom six and really only feel there is room for one. I know he is older but I'd rather extend Moore as he is a bit larger and has shown more offensive upside than Lizotte during his time in LA.

Do not resign Lizotte or AA. Yes on Moore. I love Lizotte effort but he's just to small and gets taken out of the play to often. AA has offensive talent but his lackadaisical effort on the defensive end leads to high scoring chances. He's fine back checking but he ole's to often when coming out on a skater in the defensive zone.

 

[Schmooley]

Last season the Kempe-Lizotte-Wagner line was just about the only bright spot the whole year before Mikey Anderson and Vilardi arrived.
They havent been played together once this season.
Grundstrom-JAD-Moore was one of the only bright spots this season and we will never see it again.

 

[Mats26]

Lizotte won't be protected.....agreed...but in your lineup, I take Lizotte over Lemieux any day of the week...

Lizotte isn't taking away ice time from JAD next year that's nonsense, and if Thomas can't beat out Lizotte next year...what does that say about Thomas?

Do you also miss Brendan Leipsic, Tobias Reider? Small fast players will little to no hockey IQ are placeholders until they are replaced.
When Thomas, Kupari, Andersson need ice time, it will be Lizotte that is blocking them for the 4c spot.
Lemieux brings an element that we need even as a 13th forward. No need to play MacD... ever.

 

[Fishhead]

One thing about Lizotte is he doesn't really get pure 4th line minutes, he gets similar minutes to Grundstrom. He's closer in ice time to Moore than he is to guys like Wagner and Luff. 20 points is a great 4th liner but a below average 3rd liner. He falls in between these two.

He does create chances on the ice, and I appreciate what he does. All teams can use these kind of guys, and he's reliable defensively. However, out of all of our regular forwards, he has the lowest points/60. The only forwards below him have played less than 15 games. He does lead regular forwards in one category, and that's hits taken per 60, so he's definitely mixing it up. His possession metrics are below average.

He's actually eerily similar to Grundstrom, they have similar metrics in almost every category. There's no reason to really bitch about him being in the lineup, but no reason to worry if he's out either. I have Shore levels of ambivalence on the guy.

 

[Bandit]

If that's your only takeaway, then nothing is gonna convince you, so it is what is, and that's an absolute bullshit take.

Not even 9am and you already need a nap. I’ve said numerous times that I like Lizotte for the most part, but he does fall on his ass multiple times a shift like it or not. You might consider taking it down a notch, especially about a bottom tier player on a bottom tier team.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Do you also miss Brendan Leipsic, Tobias Reider? Small fast players will little to no hockey IQ are placeholders until they are replaced.
When Thomas, Kupari, Andersson need ice time, it will be Lizotte that is blocking them for the 4c spot.
Lemieux brings an element that we need even as a 13th forward. No need to play MacD... ever.

Leipsic, a bit, he plays a similar game, Tobias Reider?? Not even the remotely same type of player....

And again, if Thomas, Kupari, Andersson can't beat Lizotte out for ice time....what does that say about them?

 

[Docgonzo]

Actually, I could get on board with that--but not necessarily to simply replace Lizotte. There's an opportunity cost there. And who are those UFAs that would be a culture/ability upgrade?

I’d like to see the Kings go after Cizikas, Paquette, maybe a Glendening or Wennberg. Then Coleman, Goodrow, Armia, Martinook for the wings.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Not even 9am and you already need a nap. I’ve said numerous times that I like Lizotte for the most part, but he does fall on his ass multiple times a shift like it or not. You might consider taking it down a notch, especially about a bottom tier player on a bottom tier team.

LOL it's after lunch here...and it's hockey, name me a player that doesn't end up on his ass multiple times.....I mean, hell if that was an actual serious critique.....give your head a shake.

 

[Magicman]

One thing about Lizotte is he doesn't really get pure 4th line minutes, he gets similar minutes to Grundstrom. He's closer in ice time to Moore than he is to guys like Wagner and Luff. 20 points is a great 4th liner but a below average 3rd liner. He falls in between these two.

He does create chances on the ice, and I appreciate what he does. All teams can use these kind of guys, and he's reliable defensively. However, out of all of our regular forwards, he has the lowest points/60. The only forwards below him have played less than 15 games. He does lead regular forwards in one category, and that's hits taken per 60, so he's definitely mixing it up. His possession metrics are below average.

He's actually eerily similar to Grundstrom, they have similar metrics in almost every category. There's no reason to really bitch about him being in the lineup, but no reason to worry if he's out either. I have Shore levels of ambivalence on the guy.

Of the 22 guys that were or would've been contributors on the 11-12 playoff roster, 36.4% were drafted by DL, 36.4% were acquired by him through trade, 13.6% were signed as free agents, and 13.6% were inherited draft choices. You could give DL credit for developing Quick though.

Of the top 6, two of them were draft picks, neither by DL. Four of them were traded for. Of the top 4D, none were traded for. Hell, two of the bottom 6 were afterthoughts.

The only person responsible for Quick's success is Quick. Lombardi royally f'ed up the goalies with running what 10 or 11 different guys between the pipes for 2 seasons. Playing and trying just about everybody else other that Quick.