Prospect Info: 2020-2021 Senators Prospect Watch

[BondraTime]

Flashscore still have it that he was on the first group but i expect they had the 1st and 3rd mixed up, as the 3rd group ended with 6 points, the 2nd group with 4 points and the 1st with 2 points

Yeah, they have them mixed up. Dahlen is on the 1st line.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Dahlen with 15P in 6GP for Timra.

Crazy stats, but why he's still playing in the Allsvenskan is beyond me. Looks like he has Soderberg-Syndrome.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That's what I thought. Kind a weird though as there are literally dozens of players who could have been taken over Thomson or Kleven.

True but not on that list. I would gladly have Heinola over Thomson ; and yes there were several others I would have taken as well, just not on the Finish team list and I would also take the two players the Leafs took over Klevin .. There were others on the board I would have preferred but those are solid picks where they went. We can watch how they develop.. Kleven is a good bet to play.. I just don't like that we traded up for him for 1 and traded up for him to be our 3rd pairing LD for two.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

and Thomson was on the WJC team last year and was their captain. Pretty silly.

Thomson from the WJC on has been on a downward trajectory. He was named their captain, but he did not have a good tournament.

 

[Micklebot]

Dahlen with 15P in 6GP for Timra.

Crazy stats, but why he's still playing in the Allsvenskan is beyond me. Looks like he has Soderberg-Syndrome.

Loyalty to the team I thought.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Thomson from the WJC on has been on a downward trajectory. He was named their captain, but he did not have a good tournament.

That wasn’t the point of my post. You were checking off guys that made the WJC prelim roster for what reason exactly?

 

[Oral64]

Thomson from the WJC on has been on a downward trajectory. He was named their captain, but he did not have a good tournament.

Well, Thomson wasn't entirely bad either, managing 3 points in 7 games at the WJC. His current downward trajectory appears somewhat inexplicable, although there may be a lot of unknown, off-ice factors contributing to his funk.

In my view, it's way too early to say that he's a bust. I fully expect Thomson to come back big time, and prove all the skeptics wrong. When you're down, everything looks up!!!!

 

[aragorn]

True but not on that list. I would gladly have Heinola over Thomson ; and yes there were several others I would have taken as well, just not on the Finish team list and I would also take the two players the Leafs took over Klevin .. There were others on the board I would have preferred but those are solid picks where they went. We can watch how they develop.. Kleven is a good bet to play.. I just don't like that we traded up for him for 1 and traded up for him to be our 3rd pairing LD for two.

I'm okay with drafting certain guys if it's going to improve the position long term & IMO Kleven is a long term solution on the bottom pairing. Hopefully, he turns out better than a number of others that have been tried there & I certainly don't like or want smaller defencemen on the bottom pairings which should be reserved for good defensive defenceman & PK specialists. The point is it improves the team more than getting another forward who may or may not make the team or is a bottom six player or just adds to the prospect list. Were there better options on D available? Maybe, but it was a position of need & who knows who ends up the better player, I just hope he becomes a great 3rd pairing D for Ottawa.

I'm of the same opinion if they were to draft Roman Schmidt RD in the 2021 draft to improve the right side of the 3rd pairing to play with Kleven. That might be the best bottom pairing this team has ever had going back to Phillips & Volchenkov or Chara. Guys who can shut down the other team's best players, has the size & strength to move them out of the front of their net & kill penalties. At the moment I don't like any of the right Ds Ottawa has to play on the 3rd pairing & see them more as 2nd pairing D. They are much closer to being a potential future playoff team & cup contender now than they were a month ago IMO & if they can add Guenther & Schmidt at next yr's draft should be a solid future team. And they have the assets to target after both.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I'm okay with drafting certain guys if it's going to improve the position long term & IMO Kleven is a long term solution on the bottom pairing. Hopefully, he turns out better than a number of others that have been tried there & I certainly don't like or want smaller defencemen on the bottom pairings which should be reserved for good defensive defenceman & PK specialists. The point is it improves the team more than getting another forward who may or may not make the team or is a bottom six player or just adds to the prospect list. Were there better options on D available? Maybe, but it was a position of need & who knows who ends up the better player, I just hope he becomes a great 3rd pairing D for Ottawa.

I'm of the same opinion if they were to draft Roman Schmidt RD in the 2021 draft to improve the right side of the 3rd pairing to play with Kleven. That might be the best bottom pairing this team has ever had going back to Phillips & Volchenkov or Chara, guys who can shut down the other team's best players & kill penalties. At the moment I don't like any of the right Ds Ottawa has to play on the 3rd pairing & see them more as 2nd pairing D. They are much closer to being a potential future playoff team & cup contender now than they were a month ago IMO & if they can add Guenther & Schmidt at next yr's draft should be a solid future team. And they have the assets to target after both.

I would have been ok with Kleven late 2nd early 3rd .. no trade up. No two picks in what I think is a high quality draft. They could have got someone like Nikishin (69 Carolina) who, imo brings pretty much the same thing Kleven brings early 3rd. Prokop a 6'4 220 lb Right shot D went 73 to Nashville. There were other options . Sens obviously targeted Kleven and I'm sure they have their reasons.. just not what I would have done. I like all their picks up to that trade up.

The positive thing about drafting Kleven is he is going to UND they have a good rep for developing D men; He could be there 3 years and that takes some pressure of the Sens Developing him.

 

[aragorn]

I would have been ok with Kleven late 2nd early 3rd .. no trade up. No two picks in what I think is a high quality draft. They could have got someone like Nikishin (69 Carolina) who, imo brings pretty much the same thing Kleven brings early 3rd. Prokop a 6'4 220 lb Right shot D went 73 to Nashville. There were other options . Sens obviously targeted Kleven and I'm sure they have their reasons.. just not what I would have done. I like all their picks up to that trade up.

The positive thing about drafting Kleven is he is going to UND they have a good rep for developing D men; He could be there 3 years and that takes some pressure of the Sens Developing him.

Kleven seems like he is going to be a very tough player to play against, is Nikishin tough? He's also known to be a pretty good skater, I like Prokop but I'm not sure how good a skater he is. I like it that he is going to ND too, that should really help & knowing Pinto & JBD should also help him here transition to the NHL, when he finally arrives. So by your calculation do you think he will play in Ottawa 4 to 5 yrs from now? I'm going to say 3 to 4 yrs away, just a little sooner.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Kleven seems like he is going to be a very tough player to play against, is Nikishin tough? He's also known to be a pretty good skater, I like Prokop but I'm not sure how good a skater he is. I like it that he is going to ND too, that should really help & knowing Pinto & JBD should also help him here transition to the NHL, when he finally arrives. So by your calculation do you think he will play in Ottawa 4 to 5 yrs from now? I'm going to say 3 to 4 yrs away, just a little sooner.

Nikishin is a freight train. Prokop is a good skating stay at home D man.. like Kleven in that way. Kleven needs a lot of improvement with the puck and moving the puck to team mates. I heard some where that Drew Commesso (the goalie for the USNTDP team) completed more passes exiting the D zone than Kleven which is scary. So I get we need to have more physical capable players that can eliminate players that way but there is more and hopefully UND can help improve that. I think possession starts in the Dzone and the D need to be able to move the puck effectively .. that is a must. This give it back to the other team stuff and let them come at you again I would want to eliminate

 

[Sweatred]

I heard some where that Drew Commesso (the goalie for the USNTDP team) completed more passes exiting the D zone than Kleven which is scary.

I doubt that... Source ?

 

[Johnny Hanson]

I doubt that... Source ?

I agree. There’s no way you get recruited to one of the top college programs in the country if you can’t complete a simple breakout pass.

The things people come up with when they don’t like a player...

 

[Xspyrit]

I would have been ok with Kleven late 2nd early 3rd .. no trade up. No two picks in what I think is a high quality draft. They could have got someone like Nikishin (69 Carolina) who, imo brings pretty much the same thing Kleven brings early 3rd. Prokop a 6'4 220 lb Right shot D went 73 to Nashville. There were other options . Sens obviously targeted Kleven and I'm sure they have their reasons.. just not what I would have done. I like all their picks up to that trade up.

The positive thing about drafting Kleven is he is going to UND they have a good rep for developing D men; He could be there 3 years and that takes some pressure of the Sens Developing him.

They moved up from #59 to #44 because they were 100% convinced that Kleven wouldn't be there anymore at #59. Habs had #47 and #48 and most likely would have grabbed him. Anyway that's what I heard a few times.

He must have been ranked not long after Jarventie on the Sens BPA list.

In the en , teams move up because they don't want to kick themselves in the nuts watching a "favorite" prospect get picked by another team. It's pretty hard to have a read on whole as we probably don't even 1% of the information on what's going on.

The way I understand how this whole thing works now, I'm trying to not get too worked up on their draft choices, I mean everybody, abslutely everybody will have a very different list, particularly after the first few obvious tiers at the top. All I'm asking is that they don't miss too often and that they hit a homerun there and there

But yeah, we can certainly talk about who we would have liked instead, I just think we should always have that "reality" in mind when commenting (not saying you didn't, just to be clear)

I agree. There’s no way you get recruited to one of the top college programs in the country if you can’t complete a simple breakout pass.

The things people come up with when they don’t like a player...

Hyperbolic comments through the grapevine often become rapidly erroneous

 

[Sweatred]

I agree. There’s no way you get recruited to one of the top college programs in the country if you can’t complete a simple breakout pass.

The things people come up with when they don’t like a player...

Or if you think your smarter than the GM … Lots of Anti PD BS made up or misevaluated around here.

 

[Micklebot]

I doubt that... Source ?

My guess is it came from Mitch Brown's microstat tracking


Not quite the same but he does mention he was among the worst transition players tracked.


Zone exit passes certainly aren't Klevens strong point. I suspect he frequently defers to naking short in zone passes allowing someone else to start the breakout.

 

[Sweatred]

My guess is it came from Mitch Brown's microstat tracking


Not quite the same but he does mention he was among the worst transition players tracked.


Zone exit passes certainly aren't Klevens strong point. I suspect he frequently defers to naking short in zone passes allowing someone else to start the breakout.

I don't see anything about the goalie clearing the zone more … I think its fair to assume puck moving is the weakest part of his game. I wonder how he is used? Some opposing lines will pressure the puck more deflating or flatting those stats. Is he playing vs other teams top lines or is he hidden/protected?

 

[Micklebot]

I don't see anything about the goalie clearing the zone more … I think its fair to assume puck moving is the weakest part of his game. I wonder how he is used? Some opposing lines will pressure the puck more deflating or flatting those stats. Is he playing vs other teams top lines or is he hidden/protected?

Yeah, I'm not a patreon subscriber so i can't digg into browns microstats, i just suspect thats where you might find evidence for or against the claim.

Kleven was definately used in a defensive role, so no doubt part of his low transition succ. rate can be attributed to that.

Personally, i liked the pick, would have prefered if we didn't trade up to get him but I'm splitting hairs at that point. UND will be a good spot to develop him, they activate their D quite a bit so he will get lots of practice assuming they play a season. His coach also made a claim that his puck skills are underrated, so hopefully thats true.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

True but not on that list. I would gladly have Heinola over Thomson ; and yes there were several others I would have taken as well, just not on the Finish team list and I would also take the two players the Leafs took over Klevin .. There were others on the board I would have preferred but those are solid picks where they went. We can watch how they develop.. Kleven is a good bet to play.. I just don't like that we traded up for him for 1 and traded up for him to be our 3rd pairing LD for two.

Agree with pretty much everything here except Kleven being a good bet to play. I think it's less than 50-50 that he ever becomes an NHL player. And that's not just me being bearish on him. Second rounders are statistically about 40% NHLers. That's one of the reasons I didn't like the trade of basically 2 second rounders for one.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Agree with pretty much everything here except Kleven being a good bet to play. I think it's less than 50-50 that he ever becomes an NHL player. And that's not just me being bearish on him. Second rounders are statistically about 40% NHLers. That's one of the reasons I didn't like the trade of basically 2 second rounders for one.

Not many players with a profile like Klevin make it or stick in the NHL these days. His chances are way lower than 50/50.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Not many players with a profile like Klevin make it or stick in the NHL these days. His chances are way lower than 50/50.

Yeah the track record with drafting pure shutdown D like Kleven is absolutely terrible.

I would have been fine spending one of our 3rds on him, maybe the DAL 2nd. but packaging a 2nd+3rd to move up to take him was a bad gamble.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Not many players with a profile like Klevin make it or stick in the NHL these days. His chances are way lower than 50/50.

LMAO. I was trying to be nice.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Yeah the track record with drafting pure shutdown D like Kleven is absolutely terrible.

I would have been fine spending one of our 3rds on him, maybe the DAL 2nd. but packaging a 2nd+3rd to move up to take him was a bad gamble.

Flashback to Andreas Englund, who was way more pimped up by Pierre and co when he was drafted, probably just due to him being our first pick that year. They said he was ranked in their 1st round.

 

[BondraTime]

Kleven is going to make a lot of people eat crow I think

 

[Hale The Villain]

Flashback to Andreas Englund, who was way more pimped up by Pierre and co when he was drafted, probably just due to him being our first pick that year. They said he was ranked in their 1st round.

And the reasoning they used for that evaluation was absurd. Said he had "generational character" or some other such nonsense.