OT: 2019 Weather Thread

[9GWG9]

The people in charge can’t be relied upon to look out for society and the greater good. How else can you explain the small percentage of people being in control of the worlds wealth.

Don’t replace what you have till it breaks, buy a used car, cook meals from raw goods instead of eating from a box, have a garden, etc..... the list goes on and on....

It’s really up to the regular joe and society as a whole. My gut is telling me the shittygeddon is fast approaching Randy.

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

Well, as one of those people over 35 I am going to promise you that most people "in charge" (if that's the right word) are very concerned with the future and do not want to see their children/grandchildren to suffer in anyway.

When people under 35 talk about this subject and tell me that they want the oil industry shut down or severely curtailed immediately I look at them and point to a few facts about "their generation." Some of the questions go like this:

-What about the fact that you all have a cell phone which is made with plastics that in turn are a byproduct of the petroleum industry and that every time I see you there's a new cell in your hand. Do you really need that thing and all these other cellular devices to survive? Once upon a time (not that long ago) there was one phone per household and you kept it for 20 years.

Agreed. This is largely on the hardware and software manufacturers though who want a market where people have to replace their phones/computers/electronics on a regular basis. The reason companies don't create a platform where you just upgrade certain components but keep the majority of your device is because it's less profitable.

-People (most of whom lived on the farm) rarely threw out plastic bottles. Everything of value was used again and again. There was no bottled water, everybody drank from a pail that was used for many years.

Agreed. Taxing people on the amount of waste they produce might be a start. Regulations on product packaging would also help.

-What about that beer in your hand or the food you just ate. It was produced by a farmer/producer using a combine/machine and then transported to market by a truck. If we severely curtail oil production then how do we get food and vital goods from the farm to the city? Are you prepared to consume much less in the way of foodstuff and other goods. Studies right now suggest that young people are consuming way too much in the way of calories especially junk food from plastic containers.

Part of the issue is the industrial farming model and the sheer volume of processed foods. Moving to small scale farming and including permaculture practices which are much more efficient and out produce conventional farming by a wide margin would provide employment for those who were previously employed in the fossil fuel industry and be healthier for the environment/consumers. Advances are currently needed though you're right in terms of effective heavy machinery that isn't reliant on diesel fuel but advances are being made just not as quickly as in other areas, but small scale farming is much less reliant on heavy machinery.

-Petroleum products are used in make up and cosmetics. Are you prepared to drop the use of cosmetics all together? Your girlfriend won't look as good but I guess you will love her anyway.

Make up and perfume can GTFO as far as I'm concerned.

-What will we use as a substitute for petroleum in the production of vital drugs and other goods we use at the pharmacy? The use of pharmacy drugs is going through the roof.

The pharmaceutical industry can also partially GTFO. There are a lot of drugs that are live saving and clearly a benefit to society, however many drugs just treat symptoms not the underlying problems related to one's way of life. Also the way that many medicines are delivered into the body would be better if done via whole foods rather than in pill form. There is clearly an over-reliance on the pharmaceutical industry which is more concerned with profits than peoples' overall well-being. Increased opioid, anti-depressant, and illicit drug use are symptomatic of a society where a growing number of people are having difficulty having their needs met and just getting by in life and are turning to drugs as a crutch or a form of escapism.

-What will we use to pave and repair the roads? Once upon a time we didn't have too many paved roads.

This is a tricky one. Clearly there has been a lot of infrastructure money poured into road systems across the world but especially in North America. There's also concrete use in construction and industry which contributes 5-7% of global CO2 emissions so reducing or substituting another material for concrete and asphalt use would be great but what are your options besides just a gravel road? Well there is a lot of research going into alternatives, see this article from The Guardian in 2015:
From oil to algae: the route to greener roads

-You love to travel internationally (so do I) but would you be prepared to give up that travel in order to lower carbon emissions? The younger generation travels much more than earlier generations many of whom rarely ventured beyond the farm and that's not going back 100 years its going back less than 50 years

Maybe I'm in the minority but I prefer camping so there's no planes involved. If you've got an electric vehicle there's less carbon footprint. Lots of R&D into electric and glider planes currently too, which I'm all for because I hate loud airplane sound pollution and airplane fuel dropping on us continuously. If you've got a truck to pull your trailer though there's not a good electric option yet, but it's on the horizon.

-You have a good government job but the province is in financial straits. We can't run 8 Billion deficits for ever so something has to give. Now you say you want the oil sands production severely curtailed but if we do that then government revenues will be in crisis mode. We would be looking at massive job cuts and curtailment of social services that will mean a massive shift in the way we live. Once upon a time the civil service in Alberta was much smaller than it is today because most people worked on private industry in farming communities. Today we have a huge public service sector that must be financed with money that is largely gleaned from petroleum revenues.

It's a bad setup currently for sure but that doesn't mean you can't reverse course and provide support as a government for helping people move into other forms of employment. You can also direct subsidies for the Oil and Gas industry towards growing a more green economy and helping people train for new careers. The government could very easily pay instructors directly to offer people education in emerging technologies and small scale farming. A more socialist government that was heavily involved in directing such a change for a relatively short period of time to help its citizens get on their feet in a new socioeconomic system would be a good thing. And it's about a tapering down of oil and gas production, not an immediate turning off of the taps but it has to start right away and the government needs to start putting some hard caps on production at some point.

-So my over riding question is, when it comes to the consumer society and the inevitable disruption to the environment that it causes, is the current generation any better at looking after things?

I think clearly there are lots of millenials that care but just as many if not more that have their heads in the sand looking at their phones. Are they any better at looking after things? Well they're clearly pushing for solutions to the climate/environmental crisis along with many other people in their 40's, 50's, 60's etc. who want a world for future generations that isn't totally f***ed. People are letting their governments know it's a huge priority. Obviously there's a lot of fear that comes with change when you're used to a specific way of life but change can and should be a catalyst to make things better and the technology and resources are there to make it happen. It just takes some political will to do what's right, unfortunately politicians tend to pander to lobbyists/campaign contributors and do whatever they think makes them look good in the eyes of the electorate to get re-elected.

See my answers in bold above.

 

[MoontoScott]

The people in charge can’t be relied upon to look out for society and the greater good. How else can you explain the small percentage of people being in control of the worlds wealth.

Don’t replace what you have till it breaks, buy a used car, cook meals from raw goods instead of eating from a box, have a garden, etc..... the list goes on and on....

It’s really up to the regular joe and society as a whole. My gut is telling me the ****tygeddon is fast approaching Randy.

Well said. It's the little things that you do. My car is over 20 years old but still runs very well due to solid maintenance and TLC. No need for recycling just yet but of course that day is coming.

When I go to A&W I don't use plastic lids or plastic stir sticks and I use the same plastic water bottle (well washed mind you) for 6 months before I use a new one.

We rarely throw anything out until it is very well used and until we have captured its value. We also try to use re useable bags when buying groceries or other goods. These types of actions (when applied on a mass scale by everyday people) go much further than a carbon tax ever will.

The rise of the "plastic" society has been a disaster. We were recently in Cozumel and many of the beaches have been totally destroyed by plastic garbage that stretches for many miles. Its an ecologic disaster, as are giant plastic islands that now drift in the oceans.

We hear daily diatribes against the oil industry but many of these same people think nothing of tossing plastic bottles over the side when they are on a cruise ship.

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

Well said. It's the little things that you do. My car is over 20 years old but still runs very well due to solid maintenance and TLC. No need for recycling just yet but of course that day is coming.

When I go to A&W I don't use plastic lids or plastic stir sticks and I use the same plastic water bottle (well washed mind you) for 6 months before I use a new one.

We rarely throw anything out until it is very well used and until we have captured its value. We also try to use re useable bags when buying groceries or other goods. These types of actions (when applied on a mass scale by everyday people) go much further than a carbon tax ever will.

The rise of the "plastic" society has been a disaster. We were recently in Cozumel and many of the beaches have been totally destroyed by plastic garbage that stretches for many miles. Its an ecologic disaster, as are giant plastic islands that now drift in the oceans.

We hear daily diatribes against the oil industry but many of these same people think nothing of tossing plastic bottles over the side when they are on a cruise ship.

I agree, you've got to walk the walk. I understand too that people have a hard time because there are more demands on their time nowadays so when you're already exhausted it's easier to take a short cut. If you re-use stuff like you're talking about though (which I do too) you don't have to buy something new and spend the money that you worked hard to earn.

Littering to me is inexcusable, as is dumping waste in oceans/waterways.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The rise of the "plastic" society has been a disaster. We were recently in Cozumel and many of the beaches have been totally destroyed by plastic garbage that stretches for many miles. Its an ecologic disaster, as are giant plastic islands that now drift in the oceans.

We hear daily diatribes against the oil industry but many of these same people think nothing of tossing plastic bottles over the side when they are on a cruise ship.

I was in the Las Perlas Islands 100 miles off the south shore of Panama a few years ago on a fishing boat for a week. Almost every beach on the many small islands had a distinct wide thick tide line of plastic then. I would hate to think what it looks like today.

They found a plastic bag at the bottom of the Mariana Trench a couple of weeks ago. Whales washing up dead with 70 pounds of plastic bags in their stomachs.

Climate change isn't going to kill us. Plastic will.

 

[MoontoScott]

See my answers in bold above.

Some excellent points.

I particularly agree with your statement about big commercial farms.

The demise of the "family farm" and the rise of large scale commercial farms was a shift of biblical proportions in our society but has received little notice in the media. It had huge implications for society and it destroyed thousands of people's livelihood in the process.

When was the last time that you saw a CBC documentary on the widespread use of chemicals and other toxins/antibiotics that are dumped into the water table by these huge farms? Most of these contaminants end up in the rivers and streams that are routinely used by the public. There is no discussion about how the use of antibiotics has (maybe?) lead to all of the superbugs that are now resistant to antibiotics.

Another fall out has been the treatment of animals in these massive operations. When we eat a piece of bacon we don't stop to think that most of these animals spend their short lives in a pen that is barely big enough for these bodies to fit into. Mom and Pop farms weren't perfect but to me (I spent my formative years on one of them--my grandparent's farm) there were much more humane to their animals.

These are just some of the ecologic and environmental stories that we choose to ignore but the oil industry is always front and center when it comes to discussions about environmental damage.

Ultimately, when it comes to environmental damage we are all to blame.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Climate change has facilitated conditions that multiply the odds of fires starting and for those fires to be hard to contain. It's not a guarantee but the odds of something in the area being on fire are only going to increase year over year. Things will burn and it'll just be a matter of whether or not what's burning is close enough to Edmonton to affect air quality like this.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

The Great Lakes and all of Canada were under glaciers and over time they receded Only then was Canada habitable. This warming will continue whether you hold your breath or not.

It is as if a glass was full of ice and a bit of water. Over time the ice melts and the water ends up more prevalent. Then the ice melts faster. Same with the Earth. It's warmer now and will warm faster because the Great Lakes are no longer a Glacier. That's basic chemistry.

As for the fear mongering over fires, its silly because the flames are mostly due to poor forest management. The mantra for many years was, "Fire, put it out!" This is one of the main reasons for the beetle infestations and fires. Too much old growth forest. B.C now does controlled burns to mitigate these problems.

Add to that the steep Klein cuts to Northern Firefighting and you have what you have. A good many experienced people were replaced with low cost rookies or had their offices closed. It was one of the reasons Slave Lake burned.

The major flaw in your argument though is that this will happen every year. That's pretty good because fires do happen every year. Way back in time. Elk actually need new growth fire to thrive.

As for the size of fires, well there is only so much old growth tinder out there. It takes decades to grow back to where it might be able to burn again so... and if you have flown over the great forest it isn't so great anymore.

 

[MoontoScott]

I was in the Las Perlas Islands 100 miles off the south shore of Panama a few years ago on a fishing boat for a week. Almost every beach on the many small islands had a distinct wide thick tide line of plastic then. I would hate to think what it looks like today.

They found a plastic bag at the bottom of the Mariana Trench a couple of weeks ago. Whales washing up with 70 pounds of plastic bags in their stomachs.

Climate change isn't going to kill us. Plastic will.

Completely agree and yet so many people (young and old alike) with all kinds of plastic toys and gadgets just shrug their shoulders when I ask them about it. When I look at anti-oil sands protestors most of the crowd has plastic water bottles in their hands and they are all talking on their plastic cell phones while wearing plastic jackets and plastic running shoes.

 

[MoontoScott]

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

The Great Lakes and all of Canada were under glaciers and over time they receded Only then was Canada habitable. This warming will continue whether you hold your breath or not.

It is as if a glass was full of ice and a bit of water. Over time the ice melts and the water ends up more prevalent. Then the ice melts faster. Same with the Earth. It's warmer now and will warm faster because the Great Lakes are no longer a Glacier. That's basic chemistry.

As for the fear mongering over fires, its silly because the flames are mostly due to poor forest management. The mantra for many years was, "Fire, put it out!" This is one of the main reasons for the beetle infestations and fires. Too much old growth forest. B.C now does controlled burns to mitigate these problems.

Add to that the steep Klein cuts to Northern Firefighting and you have what you have. A good many experienced people were replaced with low cost rookies or had their offices closed. It was one of the reasons Slave Lake burned.

The major flaw in your argument though is that this will happen every year. That's pretty good because fires do happen every year. Way back in time. Elk actually need new growth fire to thrive.

As for the size of fires, well there is only so much old growth tinder out there. It takes decades to grow back to where it might be able to burn again so... and if you have flown over the great forest it isn't so great anymore.

Amen, you rarely see a news story that says Alberta's boreal forests are late stage growth and many of these trees are 80-100 years old. Nature usually takes care of this problem all by itself but our fire suppression techniques and forest management operations have set us up for a fall. Its not all about climate change.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Completely agree and yet so many people (young and old alike) with all kinds of plastic toys and gadgets just shrug their shoulders when I ask them about it. When I look at anti-oil sands protestors most of the crowd has plastic water bottles in their hands and they are all talking on their plastic cell phones while wearing plastic jackets and plastic running shoes.

I am not sure how as a society we move away en masse from single use and non recyclable plastics unless it is legislated out of existence. The problem seems to be worse in developing countries or at least that is what it seems to me.

 

[MaxR11]

Well, as one of those people over 35 I am going to promise you that most people "in charge" (if that's the right word) are very concerned with the future and do not want to see their children/grandchildren to suffer in anyway.

When people under 35 talk about this subject and tell me that they want the oil industry shut down or severely curtailed immediately I look at them and point to a few facts about "their generation." Some of the questions go like this:

-What about the fact that you all have a cell phone which is made with plastics that in turn are a byproduct of the petroleum industry and that every time I see you there's a new cell in your hand. Do you really need that thing and all these other cellular devices to survive? Once upon a time (not that long ago) there was one phone per household and you kept it for 20 years.

-People (most of whom lived on the farm) rarely threw out plastic bottles. Everything of value was used again and again. There was no bottled water, everybody drank from a pail that was used for many years.

-What about that beer in your hand or the food you just ate. It was produced by a farmer/producer using a combine/machine and then transported to market by a truck. If we severely curtail oil production then how do we get food and vital goods from the farm to the city? Are you prepared to consume much less in the way of foodstuff and other goods. Studies right now suggest that young people are consuming way too much in the way of calories especially junk food from plastic containers.

-Petroleum products are used in make up and cosmetics. Are you prepared to drop the use of cosmetics all together? Your girlfriend won't look as good but I guess you will love her anyway.

-What will we use as a substitute for petroleum in the production of vital drugs and other goods we use at the pharmacy? The use of pharmacy drugs is going through the roof.

-What will we use to pave and repair the roads? Once upon a time we didn't have too many paved roads.

-You love to travel internationally (so do I) but would you be prepared to give up that travel in order to lower carbon emissions? The younger generation travels much more than earlier generations many of whom rarely ventured beyond the farm and that's not going back 100 years its going back less than 50 years

-You have a good government job but the province is in financial straits. We can't run 8 Billion deficits for ever so something has to give. Now you say you want the oil sands production severely curtailed but if we do that then government revenues will be in crisis mode. We would be looking at massive job cuts and curtailment of social services that will mean a massive shift in the way we live. Once upon a time the civil service in Alberta was much smaller than it is today because most people worked on private industry in farming communities. Today we have a huge public service sector that must be financed with money that is largely gleaned from petroleum revenues.

-So my over riding question is, when it comes to the consumer society and the inevitable disruption to the environment that it causes, is the current generation any better at looking after things?

Sorry, i didn't mean to target 35 and over.... heck i might be 35 and over .... i just meant those making a lot of the big decisions are generally older. but you're right, it's a collective thing that involves everyone young and old.

i guess people are just organisms like any organism. there's adequate resources and quality of life for us to propagate to large population numbers so we do so. eventually the environment and resources will decline and affect how or if we will propagate at the current rate which might then ease the pressure on global environmental strain... or if we go too far it might just cause natural disasters that would wipe a significaant percentage of us off the planet and "reset" society and thus maybe ease global strain as well.

i try to consume less than the average person but that's maybe more to do with frugalness. my cell phone is old school.... i don't need the smart phones and to be connected to the internet 24/7. i have old old 25" tv that i make last 10 plus years. i'll do my interwebbing on a computer the old fashion way. i rarely ever fly and can't understand why people feel like they're obligated to travel on a plane 2-3 times a year ( i was surprised at how large a carbon footprint air travel is). i try to drive as little as possible... but again i guess a lot of it for me is being frugal ( i wanna retire early).... with some added side benefits of helping the environment out. i do eat a lot and a lot of meat which is bad. hockey (indoor ice may be bad).

but ya, i guess the buck stops at all of us in general. we demand certain things in our life and want to have it preserved that way for the most part. we're spoiled. thus industry will supply... and to supply they will pollute in the processing of the goods and delivery of services. it's hard to tell people to immediately lessen significantly what they currently have and are used to though. i think we'll just eventually have to suffer the consequences the hard way. or at least our children or children's children will.

 

[MaxR11]

Theres little reason to wonder. Various studies are citing around 84% are caused by human activity. In Alberta, which is susceptible to early season fires, the fire season precedes the lightning season and so it can be assumed that few are naturally occurring.

No Terrorism need be assumed, only idiocy. Go to any Campground and you see ample illustrations of campers that don't properly comprehend how to have a safe, controlled fire. Put these same people in the brush in ATV's in backwoods camping and nobody is watching over for their sheer idiocy like in a Campground.

ever see the movie Idiocracy? Feels like we're moving towards that future....

 

[MoontoScott]

ever see the movie Idiocracy? Feels like we're moving towards that future....

Absolute classic and it describes so many people I know. Its a shame that so many of my high school buddies were allowed to reproduce.

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

The Great Lakes and all of Canada were under glaciers and over time they receded Only then was Canada habitable. This warming will continue whether you hold your breath or not.

It is as if a glass was full of ice and a bit of water. Over time the ice melts and the water ends up more prevalent. Then the ice melts faster. Same with the Earth. It's warmer now and will warm faster because the Great Lakes are no longer a Glacier. That's basic chemistry.

As for the fear mongering over fires, its silly because the flames are mostly due to poor forest management. The mantra for many years was, "Fire, put it out!" This is one of the main reasons for the beetle infestations and fires. Too much old growth forest. B.C now does controlled burns to mitigate these problems.

Add to that the steep Klein cuts to Northern Firefighting and you have what you have. A good many experienced people were replaced with low cost rookies or had their offices closed. It was one of the reasons Slave Lake burned.

The major flaw in your argument though is that this will happen every year. That's pretty good because fires do happen every year. Way back in time. Elk actually need new growth fire to thrive.

As for the size of fires, well there is only so much old growth tinder out there. It takes decades to grow back to where it might be able to burn again so... and if you have flown over the great forest it isn't so great anymore.

I'm not knowledgeable enough about current fire control practices compared to old regarding controlled burns in Alberta or in BC but certainly controlled burns and forest management practices are a good thing, and forest fires are a natural occurrence. I think what syz was more getting at is that with increased glacial and ice cap melting it adds more water to the oceans which ultimately ends up in the atmosphere in greater concentration thus perpetuating more weather events and extreme weather which leads to more lightning which contributes to more forest fires. There also tends to be more extremes in terms of droughts, flooding, extended cold snaps and heat waves.

That said, if you look at how lots of these forest fires are started on the Alberta and BC fire maps they're started inadvertently by people. So clearly part of the issue is complacence on the part of people in the wilderness and maybe not enough fire safety knowledge. The information is out there but that doesn't mean Joe Blow who's out camping or working in the back country is going to abide by best practice fire safety measures unfortunately; or abide by fire bans when they're in effect for that matter.

 

[RipsADrive]

Ya I don't know enough to argue about fire control practices to comment on that but I'm not going to back off climate change being among the biggest contributors to these wildfires. More extreme weather patterns lead to more extreme conditions in our forests which can make fires impossible to contain.

Just use the pine beetles as an easy example. Thousands (millions?) of dead or dying trees turn into a perfect fuel source for a fast moving fire. A strong wind in the wrong direction? Good luck.

So many problems can be linked to climate change if you're willing to dig a bit deeper into the issue. Hopefully the ostriches manage to get their head out of the sand before the water levels rise far enough to drown them.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Exactly. Anyone denying this can’t read the facts in front of them. PRC is the most dangerous country on the planet in more than one regard.

who do you think is buying their emissions?

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

They are "leaders" just thanks to not wanting to poison all their people to death, and because they have cheap labour, access to all the rare earths (that they are polluting like crazy to mine and refine), and can steal everyones designs to build their solar panels, windmills and battery tech because the whole world depends on them to produce. Their actual generation from solar and wind has been approximated to just 6-7% of their total actual generation though. Hydro is the only renewable that makes a dent in the coal and nat gas generation. Extrapolating how well they are tracking to their goal in 2030 requires a heck of a lot of assumptions still.

I wouldn't go too nuts over emission numbers based off data the Chinese government controls. Lots of people actually looking at the data see discrepancies between the claimed coal generation vs the coal produced and imported into China. It's impossible to be properly tracked, especially thanks to the Chinese government becoming more and more secretive and misleading about what they are doing. The goal of being the dominant economy in the world with all the economic levers to pull to try to ruin any country that dares stand up to question them will not be abandoned to reach any emissions targets. Once they are satisfied with their place in the world, for sure they can go more all in on cleaning things up.

Sorry to maybe sound like Steven Bannon or something. I'm half Chinese if that makes any dif That's still how I see it though.

The only exit is to stop/regulate consumption.

You can move to nuclear power.....you can move off coal to cut emissions......it just creates new issues.

The problem is consumption and culture.

 

[oobga]

The only exit is to stop/regulate consumption.

You can move to nuclear power.....you can move off coal to cut emissions......it just creates new issues.

The problem is consumption and culture.

For sure. It would need to be a coordinated effort basically by every 1st world country to convince their citizens to slow down, start to hoard all their money and let the stock markets collapse to a very low new normal. Boycott buying goods made in China and India as much as possible for a couple decades. Live simple lives like we all time warped back in the 80's, but now with all the things we used back then to survive and get around being in far more emission efficient forms.

It's not happening. And of course doing the above runs the risk of allowing a country like China and their allies (they are very chummy with Russia and the Saudi's now) to run away with technology and leave the rest of the world in the dust, which I think they would be extremely happy to do.

IMO, climate engineering industries are going to start booming soon, and we're gonna start trying to do things that we may not know the actual consequences of.

 

[DrDrai]

99% of the earths species are extinct, we are just a drop in the bucket.

During the Cambrian, Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian, Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous periods the average temperature of earth was 25 degrees Celsius with most of those periods void of ice. What caused the massive climate change back then? We currently have an average temperature of 14 degrees, we are actually in a cool period comparatively.

Mother Nature will do what she pleases, do we have to trash our home, no, but we have less control over “climate change” then we’d like to believe.

Enjoy your hockey and beer, try to reduce what you can but don’t go overboard.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

For sure. It would need to be a coordinated effort basically by every 1st world country to convince their citizens to slow down, start to hoard all their money and let the stock markets collapse to a very low new normal. Boycott buying goods made in China and India as much as possible for a couple decades. Live simple lives like we all time warped back in the 80's, but now with all the things we used back then to survive and get around being in far more emission efficient forms.

It's not happening. And of course doing the above runs the risk of allowing a country like China and their allies (they are very chummy with Russia and the Saudi's now) to run away with technology and leave the rest of the world in the dust, which I think they would be extremely happy to do.

IMO, climate engineering industries are going to start booming soon, and we're gonna start trying to do things that we may not know the actual consequences of.

well yeah there is no "it"

as in we vote for a party that does things in a measured response to meet a coordinated global effort. that won't happen.

its a total revolution in culture. its going to take a severe response to a weather event or war.

 

[oobga]

well yeah there is no "it"

as in we vote for a party that does things in a measured response to meet a coordinated global effort. that won't happen.

its a total revolution in culture. its going to take a severe response to a weather event or war.

Our only hope many be Trump to be honest Only he has the audacity and recklessness to try to create a full blown trade war for a massive recession and economic slowdown. We really should all be cheering on Trump grinding the world economy to a halt with fights and tariffs for the sake of mother earth.

Oh, and cloud seeding I guess is another option. Studies are showing it can very effectively slow warming, and is not very expensive at all (long term effects unknown, but oh well). Let's go wild and get those clouds booming.

 

[RipsADrive]

99% of the earths species are extinct, we are just a drop in the bucket.

During the Cambrian, Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian, Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous periods the average temperature of earth was 25 degrees Celsius with most of those periods void of ice. What caused the massive climate change back then? We currently have an average temperature of 14 degrees, we are actually in a cool period comparatively.

Mother Nature will do what she pleases, do we have to trash our home, no, but we have less control over “climate change” then we’d like to believe.

Enjoy your hockey and beer, try to reduce what you can but don’t go overboard.

I'm not well off enough to do as much as I'd like to reduce my footprint so I'm not going to stress about the stuff I can't control. When it comes down to it, my individual effort will be completely meaningless in the face of our culture of consumption but if enough people see and understand the problems we face maybe we'll end up with a government that will try to regulate industries and pressure other countries to do the same. If this happens all over the world then maybe things take a turn for the better. Naive, I know, but it's my own way of coping with the learned helplessness associated with the seemingly insurmountable challenge climate change poses. I don't have a solution and I don't have the will or means to make a difference on my own but if there's eventually enough people who feel the same way maybe we can finally try to face the issue head on.

I'm not asking deniers to help clean the kitchen but it'd be nice if they would at least stop shitting all over the floor and asking, "What mess?"

 

[DrDrai]

I'm not well off enough to do as much as I'd like to reduce my footprint so I'm not going to stress about the stuff I can't control. When it comes down to it, my individual effort will be completely meaningless in the face of our culture of consumption but if enough people see and understand the problems we face maybe we'll end up with a government that will try to regulate industries and pressure other countries to do the same. If this happens all over the world then maybe things take a turn for the better. Naive, I know, but it's my own way of coping with the learned helplessness associated with the seemingly insurmountable challenge climate change poses. I don't have a solution and I don't have the will or means to make a difference on my own but if there's eventually enough people who feel the same way maybe we can finally try to face the issue head on.

I'm not asking deniers to help clean the kitchen but it'd be nice if they would at least stop ****ting all over the floor and asking, "What mess?"

I respect that, I just think people should realize we contribute in some way to climate change but I think it’s also a natural trend that we likely can’t put any significant stop to. I cut up those six pack plastic rings whenever I see them, I recycle and compost.

I do question how much we should be taxed for say carbon. I haven’t drove any less or heated my house less in winter, I just pay more money to do the things I’m going to continue to do. I’d rather have that money (if forced to pay it as we currently are) to go towards a solar system on my house. I think individuals may do more with the money then a government.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Our only hope many be Trump to be honest Only he has the audacity and recklessness to try to create a full blown trade war for a massive recession and economic slowdown. We really should all be cheering on Trump grinding the world economy to a halt with fights and tariffs for the sake of mother earth.

Oh, and cloud seeding I guess is another option. Studies are showing it can very effectively slow warming, and is not very expensive at all (long term effects unknown, but oh well). Let's go wild and get those clouds booming.

the "answer" will always be some sort of product or service that conforms, even if only slightly, to economic growth hyperbole

the real answer is to drastically move away from consumer culture.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Greenhouse gas draw-down likely only going to come about due to peak-oil. Too bad those projections didn't hit a decade ago.