2019 Training Camp Thread - Pride and Passion

[vorbis]

what am I missing with Pittsburgh? is Galchenyuk some kind of magical fit there or something?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

what am I missing with Pittsburgh? is Galchenyuk some kind of magical fit there or something?

His main thing is that based on his stats Crosby should’ve won the Hart last year. Plus their bottom 6 is a strength.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Here’s the breakdown:

 

[vorbis]

His main thing is that based on his stats Crosby should’ve won the Hart last year. Plus their bottom 6 is a strength.

yeah I realized I sounded silly after posting that and began to RTFA, which I am doing now. the lesson, as always, is never post.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

actually the lesson is always post without thinking

 

[Svechhammer]

Remaining teams, if I can figure it out in my head correctly, are:

Boston
Toronto
Tampa

Carolina

St Louis
Nashville

Vegas

Oh boy am I glad I have season tickets this year. This could either be really fun, or a shitshow worth watching

 

[Chrispy]

I am 98 percent convinced we're about to do something very big, and I'm certain it will be with Winnipeg:

• Winnipeg *has* to make at least one trade;
• We can solve at least half of the Jets' issues with one trade;
• Friedman's comment that we're trying to "move bodies;"
• Dundon hasn't been in the news in a week.

It just makes too much sense. They need bodies. We have extra. They can't get Laine's name on a contract. We can.

I know everyone wants Roslovic and/or Ehlers, but I don't get why Winnipeg would trade *signed* players when their biggest issue is signing the unsigned ones. It just doesn't fix anything for them. IMO, Laine is very available. We can do a deal around Faulk or Hamilton, help their non-existent right defense and probably help them get Connor signed.

But that doesn't help our "bodies" situation and probably doesn't clear enough cap for Laine, unless he's willing to pull a Labanc job. Gauthier has jacked up his trade value. McKeown should be available. Forsling. Wallmark and/or Bishop could be extra. McGinn and/or Foegele do the same job. We can easily add whatever it takes to make it work. We can even give up Necas.

And there's more in Winnipeg that should/could interest us, namely Kristian Vesalainen, and of course, picks.

If Connor signs soon, I'd boost this up to 99 percent sure. That means the Jets will have cost-certainty with Connor and without Laine and they'll know exactly what they can take from us, salary-wise. If they can afford Reimer, we can get another significant edge by flipping him for Broissoit (who's probably better *and* cheaper).

There's also l'offre hostile route, but that doesn't really work. A bridge deal for Laine probably averages around $6.5 million, which is in 1st, 2nd, 3rd pick range. No way Winnipeg lets him go for that. I guess we can structure it like $3.5 million, $6 million, $10 million, and make that QO in Year 4 completely unpalatable for Winnipeg, but it's still shaky. It's even possible we can submit l'offre hostile and have him sign it, then continue working on a trade that includes the return of our picks.

The bottom line is that I think we're very much in on Laine and I'd be willing to bet he ends up here.

Or, I may be back in a few hours to delete this.

You may be right, but I don't see Hamilton as the chip for Laine.

1) Hamilton has been dealt around a few times and, right or not, has a reputation for being a locker room loner. I don't see Winnipeg dealing Laine to take that on.
2) Winnipeg can't sign Hamilton until after the 19-20 season, so this kicks the can down the road a little, but doesn't immediately solve the defense problem long-term. Faulk can with an extension that can be signed as part of the deal.
3) Faulk and his agent have permission to talk to teams, so Winnipeg could talk about a contract. Laine is an RFA, so Carolina can talk about a contract. They can see what else needs to happen for cap compliance.

As far as a spot for Laine as @geehaad mentioned, someone in the top 6 is moving to Winnipeg if Laine is coming to Raleigh, and it's going to hurt. I think Nino is the most likely candidate. Moving Svech only makes Carolina's cap issues worse, TT isn't going anywhere, Staal has a NMC, Dzingel just signed last month.

This deal is going to hurt if it happens. I imagine something like:
Faulk(extended)+Nino+Necas/1st
for
Laine(extended)

I don't see a player added on Winnipeg's side given that Charlotte is already crowded. Maybe a pick coming back with Laine.

 

[vorbis]

actually the lesson is always post without thinking

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I am 98 percent convinced we're about to do something very big, and I'm certain it will be with Winnipeg:

• Winnipeg *has* to make at least one trade;
• We can solve at least half of the Jets' issues with one trade;
• Friedman's comment that we're trying to "move bodies;"
• Dundon hasn't been in the news in a week.

It just makes too much sense. They need bodies. We have extra. They can't get Laine's name on a contract. We can.

I know everyone wants Roslovic and/or Ehlers, but I don't get why Winnipeg would trade *signed* players when their biggest issue is signing the unsigned ones. It just doesn't fix anything for them. IMO, Laine is very available. We can do a deal around Faulk or Hamilton, help their non-existent right defense and probably help them get Connor signed.

But that doesn't help our "bodies" situation and probably doesn't clear enough cap for Laine, unless he's willing to pull a Labanc job. Gauthier has jacked up his trade value. McKeown should be available. Forsling. Wallmark and/or Bishop could be extra. McGinn and/or Foegele do the same job. We can easily add whatever it takes to make it work. We can even give up Necas.

And there's more in Winnipeg that should/could interest us, namely Kristian Vesalainen, and of course, picks.

If Connor signs soon, I'd boost this up to 99 percent sure. That means the Jets will have cost-certainty with Connor and without Laine and they'll know exactly what they can take from us, salary-wise. If they can afford Reimer, we can get another significant edge by flipping him for Broissoit (who's probably better *and* cheaper).

There's also l'offre hostile route, but that doesn't really work. A bridge deal for Laine probably averages around $6.5 million, which is in 1st, 2nd, 3rd pick range. No way Winnipeg lets him go for that. I guess we can structure it like $3.5 million, $6 million, $10 million, and make that QO in Year 4 completely unpalatable for Winnipeg, but it's still shaky. It's even possible we can submit l'offre hostile and have him sign it, then continue working on a trade that includes the return of our picks.

The bottom line is that I think we're very much in on Laine and I'd be willing to bet he ends up here.

Or, I may be back in a few hours to delete this.

This is well thought out but there's a few roadblocks. The main one being that Winnipeg doesn't actually know what's going on with Byfuglien right now, and he's sort of handcuffed them with regard to their next few moves. He might come back, or he might retire and free up another $7.5m on the cap. But they can't count on that until then. Of course, they've got cap room to play with. But say Byfuglien retires. They've got plenty of room for Laine and Connor, and may prefer keeping them over any potential moves they might make. Maybe in that case it is a Faulk for Vesalainen or whatever. But trade Laine then watch Byfuglien retire? Lost opportunity.

On the flip side, this may be the cheapest we could ever acquire a guy like Laine, so if they want him now is the time to pull the trigger. I feel like Laine and RBA would be like oil and water, but maybe he turns into Rod's greatest triumph.

 

[Lempo]

I don't think we should pay extra for WPG extending Laine. I don't think money is the ultimate issue in signing him, but him getting played in top 6 with a center he has some chemistry. PoMo's usage of forwards is an issue there.

He'd sign to NC just to **** with the Fortnite problem touting folks.

 

[Ole Gil]

Alex Semin's character with Jeff Skinner's commitment to defense. Sign me up!

 

[tarheelhockey]

You may be right, but I don't see Hamilton as the chip for Laine.

1) Hamilton has been dealt around a few times and, right or not, has a reputation for being a locker room loner. I don't see Winnipeg dealing Laine to take that on.
2) Winnipeg can't sign Hamilton until after the 19-20 season, so this kicks the can down the road a little, but doesn't immediately solve the defense problem long-term. Faulk can with an extension that can be signed as part of the deal.
3) Faulk and his agent have permission to talk to teams, so Winnipeg could talk about a contract. Laine is an RFA, so Carolina can talk about a contract. They can see what else needs to happen for cap compliance.

As far as a spot for Laine as @geehaad mentioned, someone in the top 6 is moving to Winnipeg if Laine is coming to Raleigh, and it's going to hurt. I think Nino is the most likely candidate. Moving Svech only makes Carolina's cap issues worse, TT isn't going anywhere, Staal has a NMC, Dzingel just signed last month.

This deal is going to hurt if it happens. I imagine something like:
Faulk(extended)+Nino+Necas/1st
for
Laine(extended)

I don't see a player added on Winnipeg's side given that Charlotte is already crowded. Maybe a pick coming back with Laine.

I think the appeal of this situation is that a trade wouldn’t hurt as much as it ought to. The history of toxic assets getting traded has led to some laughable deals. Including ours with Skinner.

At least for me, that’s a condition of the whole conversation. If it’s about trading for Laine at normal market value, that’s a non-starter.

 

[Chrispy]

I think the appeal of this situation is that a trade wouldn’t hurt as much as it ought to. The history of toxic assets getting traded has led to some laughable deals. Including ours with Skinner.

At least for me, that’s a condition of the whole conversation. If it’s about trading for Laine at normal market value, that’s a non-starter.

I don't think that offer is anywhere near full market value for Laine. But the deal will still have to hurt, even if it's not full price.

What I'm not clear about is where between full market value and signedFaulk+Nino+Necas/1st would get Winnipeg to pull the trigger.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't think that offer is anywhere near full market value for Laine. But the deal will still have to hurt, even if it's not full price.

What I'm not clear about is where between full market value and signedFaulk+Nino+Necas/1st would get Winnipeg to pull the trigger.

In that case I think you’re seriously overestimating Laine’s trade value. The guy only scored 9 more goals than Nino last year, and will be looking for a Matthews-like paycheck. Between the money, the baggage, and the inconsistency, he has a very Semin-like profile. Adding Faulk and a top-10 prospect to close the scoring gap with Nino is a pretty steep ask already.

In any case, I don’t think the Canes or many other teams would be in the market at that price point. The Jets don’t have the leverage to hold that kind of line.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I think a lot is being made of Laine's "fit" and to me, it's way overblown. First of all, Winnipeg only has one legit NHL center, Mark Scheifele, and only one RW gets to play with him, and that's captain Blake Wheeler. The rest of the group is Bryan Little, Andrew Copp and Adam Lowry. So you start to see the issue right away.

Secondly, Wheeler has already admitted that he tends to get overly focused -- to the point of it being a negative factor in his life -- and further admits it's got to change. I don't think Laine is any different than any other young player coming into the league the past five years. The difference is Wheeler. Laine would have been a fit here from Day 1, IMO, with our much more balanced locker room.

As for the defensive side of the game, Laine clearly took a step in the wrong direction last year, but he was actually quite good in his first two seasons. Last season was a disaster in Winnipeg. All of this came to a head and it was ugly. But I don't think we can say Laine doesn't play defense because of one bad year where everything that could go wrong, did.

The bottom line is that I don't think he's the player we're making him out to be. He's not a right-handed Skinner, and he doesn't have Semin's attitude. He's a 21-year-old kid stuck in a non-optimal situation.

 

[GoldiFox]

I see Winnipeg fans constantly say they need top-4 RHD and a 2C. If some combo of Faulk + Necas + Niederreiter/McGinn/Reimer (salary) gets it done then that seems like a steal to me. Personally I'd sell high on Niederreiter in a second. He was very underwhelming in the Playoffs next to an injured Aho. Feels like he'd be a 20G/20A winger anywhere in the lineup that isn't the 1st line. Canes can replace that production internally for less than $5.25 million.

 

[Lempo]

I think the appeal of this situation is that a trade wouldn’t hurt as much as it ought to. The history of toxic assets getting traded has led to some laughable deals. Including ours with Skinner.

At least for me, that’s a condition of the whole conversation. If it’s about trading for Laine at normal market value, that’s a non-starter.

Except that the toxicity is the media spinjob, the Finnish article was meant to sell the tabloid's printed NHL Extra with Laine as the cover boy "telling it to JeEts as it is".

I don't believe one second that Jets front office would be thinking of Laine in these terms. They got Connor unsigned, and other guys have other guys. The momentarily hangup is on terms.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I think a lot is being made of Laine's "fit" and to me, it's way overblown. First of all, Winnipeg only has one legit NHL center, Mark Scheifele, and only one RW gets to play with him, and that's captain Blake Wheeler. The rest of the group is Bryan Little, Andrew Copp and Adam Lowry. So you start to see the issue right away.

Secondly, Wheeler has already admitted that he tends to get overly focused -- to the point of it being a negative factor in his life -- and further admits it's got to change. I don't think Laine is any different than any other young player coming into the league the past five years. The difference is Wheeler. Laine would have been a fit here from Day 1, IMO, with our much more balanced locker room.

As for the defensive side of the game, Laine clearly took a step in the wrong direction last year, but he was actually quite good in his first two seasons. Last season was a disaster in Winnipeg. All of this came to a head and it was ugly. But I don't think we can say Laine doesn't play defense because of one bad year where everything that could go wrong, did.

The bottom line is that I don't think he's the player we're making him out to be. He's not a right-handed Skinner, and he doesn't have Semin's attitude. He's a 21-year-old kid stuck in a non-optimal situation.

Fair enough. Plus, his candid approach to the media might work better on a Dundon-owned team than any other team in the league. I certainly would be thrilled.

That said, we’d need the cap space. Just Faulk, or even just Hamilton, likely wouldn’t do it. Nino would probably be the guy.

 

[Lempo]

Fair enough. Plus, his candid approach to the media might work better on a Dundon-owned team than any other team in the league. I certainly would be thrilled.

Oh, yes... in the news every week would become easier. Plus the jersey sales obviously.

 

[Chrispy]

In that case I think you’re seriously overestimating Laine’s trade value. The guy only scored 9 more goals than Nino last year, and will be looking for a Matthews-like paycheck. Between the money, the baggage, and the inconsistency, he has a very Semin-like profile. Adding Faulk and a top-10 prospect to close the scoring gap with Nino is a pretty steep ask already.

In any case, I don’t think the Canes or many other teams would be in the market at that price point. The Jets don’t have the leverage to hold that kind of line.

9 more goals in what was by far Laine's worst season to date, and 5.5 years younger than Nino.
If last year is what Laine is going forward, I agree it's way too expensive. If Laine is more like the 35-45 goal, 65-70 point player he was his first 2 seasons, it's a discount on fair value. If Laine progresses beyond his first 2 seasons...

 

[ONO94]

Leaving the Laine discussion out of it--I think Faulk to Winnipeg makes sense for Winnipeg regardless of what their perceived window may be. He is willing to go there, he is a top 4, sometimes top pairing level D-man, he is still young, he can sign an extension now and he has some warts which means his price won't be outrageous. Because he can sign an extension and is still young--Winnipeg can retool on the fly for a couple of years and Faulk will still be young enough to participate in any resurgence. The price Carolina wants will not cripple Winnipeg--realistically a Roslovic and mid level pick or something similar should get it done. All in all, the deal works better for Faulk and Winnipeg than it does Carolina but Carolina gets assets, clears some room on the defense and lowers their cap for this year.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Except that the toxicity is the media spinjob, the Finnish article was meant to sell the tabloid's printed NHL Extra with Laine as the cover boy "telling it to JeEts as it is".

I don't believe one second that Jets front office would be thinking of Laine in these terms. They got Connor unsigned, and other guys have other guys. The momentarily hangup is on terms.

I wasn’t referring just to the article, but to the overall situation. The toxicity is in the fact that a player is sitting out in a contract dispute, largely because he has underperformed for the amount of money he’s asking. It’s not a great situation for a team that a year ago thought of itself as being inside their Cup window.

 

[Lempo]

If Laine progresses beyond his first 2 seasons...

I say that's a when, not if. Maybe an as. People say that the league figured him out and he can't score anymore, but any time the hostile D-men are stealing for Laine because they have "figured him out", that leaves room for the other guys in the line to do their thing.

It wouldn't be "the peepee" no more, that'sfroshure.

 

[Chrispy]

Leaving the Laine discussion out of it--I think Faulk to Winnipeg makes sense for Winnipeg regardless of what their perceived window may be. He is willing to go there, he is a top 4, sometimes top pairing level D-man, he is still young, he can sign an extension now and he has some warts which means his price won't be outrageous. Because he can sign an extension and is still young--Winnipeg can retool on the fly for a couple of years and Faulk will still be young enough to participate in any resurgence. The price Carolina wants will not cripple Winnipeg--realistically a Roslovic and mid level pick or something similar should get it done. All in all, the deal works better for Faulk and Winnipeg than it does Carolina but Carolina gets assets, clears some room on the defense and lowers their cap for this year.

But Winnipeg has about $15.5M in cap space, and Connor and Laine to re-sign. If Faulk is going to Winnipeg, some sort of salary has to be going back to Carolina or Winnipeg already has another deal lined up for Connor, Laine, or dropping some salary (Ehlers?)

 

[tarheelhockey]

9 more goals in what was by far Laine's worst season to date, and 5.5 years younger than Nino.
If last year is what Laine is going forward, I agree it's way too expensive. If Laine is more like the 35-45 goal, 65-70 point player he was his first 2 seasons, it's a discount on fair value. If Laine progresses beyond his first 2 seasons...

And again, this description is very Semin-like.