2019 Training Camp Thread - Pride and Passion

[zman77]

 

[My Special Purpose]

I am 98 percent convinced we're about to do something very big, and I'm certain it will be with Winnipeg:

• Winnipeg *has* to make at least one trade;
• We can solve at least half of the Jets' issues with one trade;
• Friedman's comment that we're trying to "move bodies;"
• Dundon hasn't been in the news in a week.

It just makes too much sense. They need bodies. We have extra. They can't get Laine's name on a contract. We can.

I know everyone wants Roslovic and/or Ehlers, but I don't get why Winnipeg would trade *signed* players when their biggest issue is signing the unsigned ones. It just doesn't fix anything for them. IMO, Laine is very available. We can do a deal around Faulk or Hamilton, help their non-existent right defense and probably help them get Connor signed.

But that doesn't help our "bodies" situation and probably doesn't clear enough cap for Laine, unless he's willing to pull a Labanc job. Gauthier has jacked up his trade value. McKeown should be available. Forsling. Wallmark and/or Bishop could be extra. McGinn and/or Foegele do the same job. We can easily add whatever it takes to make it work. We can even give up Necas.

And there's more in Winnipeg that should/could interest us, namely Kristian Vesalainen, and of course, picks.

If Connor signs soon, I'd boost this up to 99 percent sure. That means the Jets will have cost-certainty with Connor and without Laine and they'll know exactly what they can take from us, salary-wise. If they can afford Reimer, we can get another significant edge by flipping him for Broissoit (who's probably better *and* cheaper).

There's also l'offre hostile route, but that doesn't really work. A bridge deal for Laine probably averages around $6.5 million, which is in 1st, 2nd, 3rd pick range. No way Winnipeg lets him go for that. I guess we can structure it like $3.5 million, $6 million, $10 million, and make that QO in Year 4 completely unpalatable for Winnipeg, but it's still shaky. It's even possible we can submit l'offre hostile and have him sign it, then continue working on a trade that includes the return of our picks.

The bottom line is that I think we're very much in on Laine and I'd be willing to bet he ends up here.

Or, I may be back in a few hours to delete this.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I'm not 98% sure or anything like that, but I feel like Laine+ for Hamilton++ has made sense for a while, for the reasons you cite.

 

[Identity404]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Laine? He is like Jeff Skinner 2.0 and will take up a large part of the cap. Can't see Rod being a fan of his either.

 

[cptjeff]

I'm not 98% sure or anything like that, but I feel like Laine+ for Hamilton++ has made sense for a while, for the reasons you cite.

It'll have to be Faulk, though. Faulk has no contract after this season, and he's not going to sign for a number that works for us. And Winnipeg is close to home for Faulk, and isn't on his no trade list. But obviously, we get more if he commits to re-signing there before a trade, and that gets messy, especially if we're trying to negotiate with Laine as well.

Donnie and the Borg ain't getting too much sleep right now, I'd bet.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Laine? He is like Jeff Skinner 2.0 and will take up a large part of the cap. Can't see Rod being a fan of his either.

Sure... except six inches taller, 20 pounds heavier, six years younger, and hasn't spent a decade missing the playoffs. Same other than those details.

 

[geehaad]

If they bring Laine in, who gets vacated from the top-6?

Svech
TT
Dzingel
Nino

 

[Navin R Slavin]

It'll have to be Faulk, though. Faulk has no contract after this season, and he's not going to sign for a number that works for us. And Winnipeg is close to home for Faulk, and isn't on his no trade list. But obviously, we get more if he commits to re-signing there before a trade, and that gets messy, especially if we're trying to negotiate with Laine as well.

Donnie and the Borg ain't getting too much sleep right now, I'd bet.

It won't have to be Faulk. I think we'd prefer it to be Faulk, but if Faulk doesn't sign long term, I think there's still a deal there. I won't say Hamilton is expendable, he's a great player, but the Gardiner acquisition has changed the calculus.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Laine isnt going to happen. Not here. Hamilton isn't going anywhere.

 

[spockBokk]

Who else gets moved with Faulk or Hamilton to clear the cap for Laine?

I could see them looking into it, but it seems like way to complicated a trade to pull off 2 weeks prior to the season. I want a guy like Roslovic or Kase for Faulk, but the more I think about it, the more I feel like the return for Faulk will be futures vs. a young RS scoring forward. Or, this Faulking thing drags into the season and they end up dealing Mckeown or Forsling for a 4th...

On a side note, I was impressed with Forsling last night, played decently on the PK with Faulk, moved the puck well and no blatant oopsies...

 

[Identity404]

Sure... except six inches taller, 20 pounds heavier, six years younger, and hasn't spent a decade missing the playoffs. Same other than those details.

Oh, I thought Skinner and Laine were actually the same person. Thanks for pointing out those differences. Silly me.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I've been skeptical of the fit, both in terms of the player type with the coach and the contract cost in the broader team structure, but if it were to happen, I think it would be the FO recognizing a potential long-term personnel problem with the PP. It's easy to put the blame on Faulk alone, but he's just 1 of 5. The 1st unit still lacks a true scoring threat that can not only put the puck in the back of the net from distance, but also open the ice for the other players on there. A solution may not develop internally. Necas has shown some promise, but at the AHL level; whether that's going to translate against NHL goalies is a question mark. Laine definitively addresses that need.

Still, no trusted source has linked Carolina to Laine. The talk of Winnipeg trading Laine period has been lacking. The Byfuglien situation may have the opposite effect in curbing the demand for a defenseman; the Jets probably can't solve their problems right now and may just have to stomach a short-term step backwards. I'm not holding my breath on this one.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Count me as not seeing us landing Laine. I do think Faulk still gets moved soon.

 

[MinJaBen]

I’m not sure how I’d feel about a Laine trade: it would be exciting, but I fear it would cost us too much. Frankly, my preferred trade with the Jets would be Faulk for their 1st. Anything else brings back salary and needs a roster spot that is not easily found. I was really excited about Kase as I thought he’d fit this team to a tee, but that seems dead now.

 

[Lempo]

EDM refuses to move Puljujarvi because he might explode elsewhere and make them look fools because of letting 4OA with perceived upside go.

Laine actually is 6th in goals since he entered the league, after his 18-20 old seasons. He's not going anywhere.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

Am I the only one who doesn't want Laine? He is like Jeff Skinner 2.0 and will take up a large part of the cap. Can't see Rod being a fan of his either.

Yeah i agree with you, sounds like leadership in the Winnipeg room is not a fan of Laine's attitude, can't imagine that going over any better with Rod. I'd be after Connor well before Laine.

 

[Vagrant]

EDM refuses to move Puljujarvi because he might explode elsewhere and make them look fools because of letting 4OA with perceived upside go.

Laine actually is 6th in goals since he entered the league, after his 18-20 old seasons. He's not going anywhere.

i agree. i don't think the jets would be that dumb. additionally, i don't think they'd want to trade him to carolina where he would unite with sebastian aho and strongly intensify the probability he goes berserk. teams that trade guys who demand trades rarely desire to move them somewhere they'd be happy to go.

 

[Lempo]

There's also l'offre hostile route, but that doesn't really work. A bridge deal for Laine probably averages around $6.5 million, which is in 1st, 2nd, 3rd pick range. No way Winnipeg lets him go for that. I guess we can structure it like $3.5 million, $6 million, $10 million, and make that QO in Year 4 completely unpalatable for Winnipeg, but it's still shaky. It's even possible we can submit l'offre hostile and have him sign it, then continue working on a trade that includes the return of our picks.

First, if Laine too signs one it will be sopimustarjous from thereon.

Second, there is always the talk of the hostile team adding picks and thangs in a side-deal to encourage the prior team to not match, but I think the optics would be bad for a hostilely targeted GM who agrees to engage in negotiations of any kind with the hostile GM when it's on.

But, I have been contemplating such a backloaded bridge offre hostile myself. I think the trick would need to be that the player actually actively wants out so bad that when signing the OH there already is a clear understanding that the SPC on the sheet will be followed by a long-term extension with the hostile team. The overpayment in the OH contract would to an extent be mitigated in the follow-up contract.

The prior team would have to know that the player will sign the extension with the hostile team (so the following QO never comes into play with them), but in case the prior team would match the OH then the player would just accept the outrageous QO(s) after that contract and walk to UFA with it/them while being ridiculously overpaid. Or immediately if not tendered the outrageous QO.

I don't think that could be blamed for a 26.3 Circumvention in any way either, because technically the prior team has the opportunity to try and extend the player while under their control and it's their own fault if they have wrecked their goodwill, and the bridge contracts by definition are used to determine the value of the expected long-term follow-up contract and besides it's an entertainment business and this would be entertaining.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Oh, I thought Skinner and Laine were actually the same person. Thanks for pointing out those differences. Silly me.

Well, golly, you called him Skinner 2.0, so I was confused! I thought you were actually comparing the two in a realistic fashion! Silly me.

 

[ClarkBolzano]

I’m not sure how I’d feel about a Laine trade: it would be exciting, but I fear it would cost us too much. Frankly, my preferred trade with the Jets would be Faulk for their 1st. Anything else brings back salary and needs a roster spot that is not easily found. I was really excited about Kase as I thought he’d fit this team to a tee, but that seems dead now.

Absolutely right. Now we have a very balanced team. Great defenders, a well rounded forward group und solid goaltending. We have a lot of fast skilled players who can score. Do we have a goal scorer like Laine? Maybe one in the making. But hockey is a team sport, ask the oilers, they will confirm it. So what does this mean. It means that They must be very careful. If Laine comes, we have to give away a lot of assets. Is this worth the price? He had back problems all year last season ...it seems. I think there will be be a deal, we have so good defense... But I don't think it will be Laine.

 

[Roboturner913]

Laine isnt going to happen. Not here. Hamilton isn't going anywhere.

Yeah, call me unimaginative but I'm with you. It doesn't seem to fit on several levels - team philosophy, salary cap, weird timing....I just can't see it.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

BTW, Luszczyszyn is out with Team No. 9 and it's the Washington Capitals 96.7 points, 70 percent chance to make the playoffs, four percent to win the Cup.

Penguins off the board now at #8. Canes are officially projected as Metro champs.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Penguins off the board now at #8. Canes are officially projected as Metro champs.

Luz has the Pens over the Caps? I don’t understand the love fest. Their offense and defense is worse than last season.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Remaining teams, if I can figure it out in my head correctly, are:

Boston
Toronto
Tampa

Carolina

St Louis
Nashville

Vegas

 

[Ole Gil]

Sure... except six inches taller, 20 pounds heavier, six years younger, and hasn't spent a decade missing the playoffs. Same other than those details.

He doesnt play any defense.

-Yeah, but did you see how big and young he is while not playing any defense!?