Pre-Game Talk: 2019 NHL Draft, Pt. V: Got your ticket? (Mod note in pinned post)

[TruGr1t]

Whereas I'm the opposite with that article.

For me, coming from that article.
Soderstrom comes off as the better skater (edge work, backwards), better stickhandler and better overall hockey IQ. Broberg sounds like he skates fast, physical and bullish is the offensive and defensive zones.

I'd rather have the offensive upside at this point. I'm tired of having a totally offensively inept blue line. Broberg also has tons of elite tools Soderstrom doesn't. I just think guys like Broberg end up way more valuable assuming you can develop them.

We haven't had a game breaker on the blue line since Ehrhoff. I'm tired of guys with "good edge work, can skate backwards."

That being said, I have Zegras, Boldy, Cozens, and Krebs ahead of any defensemen as possible fallers. I'd be borderline with Newhook.

 

[4Twenty]

Wroblewski: Zegras, Boldy & Caufield Would All Look Good In A Canucks Uniform TSN 1040: Donnie & The Moj podcast

Pretty hard not to get excited after listening to this

That coach is passionate AF. I could listen to guys like that talk the game all day every day. Really amazing insights into the players strengths and weaknesses. Made me want Boldy some type of way (if anyone didn't listen, drew Marian Hossa as a comparable).

 

[Love]

Zegras just said on 650 that he’ll be talking with the Canucks again on the Thursday before the draft. Not sure if that’s any surprise to anyone but thought I’d throw it out there.

 

[racerjoe]

I'd rather have the offensive upside at this point. I'm tired of having a totally offensively inept blue line. Broberg also has tons of elite tools Soderstrom doesn't. I just think guys like Broberg end up way more valuable assuming you can develop them.

We haven't had a game breaker on the blue line since Ehrhoff. I'm tired of guys with "good edge work, can skate backwards."

That being said, I have Zegras, Boldy, Cozens, and Krebs ahead of any defensemen as possible fallers. I'd be borderline with Newhook.

As I have stated I would go forward, I have Newhook hire than most, and feel there will be someone there better than a dman.

Having said that I am completely the opposite as you on Broberg vs Soderstrom. I don't even see the offensive upside with Broberg. Soderstrom scored at almost an identical rate while playing in the superior league. I think his gap control is better too. I really just don't see much that Broberg has other than size on Soderstrom.

 

[TruGr1t]

As I have stated I would go forward, I have Newhook hire than most, and feel there will be someone there better than a dman.

Having said that I am completely the opposite as you on Broberg vs Soderstrom. I don't even see the offensive upside with Broberg. Soderstrom scored at almost an identical rate while playing in the superior league. I think his gap control is better too. I really just don't see much that Broberg has other than size on Soderstrom.

I'm basing it on this:

heres an article discussing Soderstrom vs Broberg BLOG: Broberg or Söderström? if anyone is interested

Clearly indicates Broberg is a superior offensive player with significant physical advantages in terms of size and skating. More active in the offensive zone and more committed to generating offense. Better shot, better skater, etc. I'm looking for upside here, I don't want the safe pick.

 

[GetFocht]

Zegras just said on 650 that he’ll be talking with the Canucks again on the Thursday before the draft. Not sure if that’s any surprise to anyone but thought I’d throw it out there.

I see zero chance he will be available at 10.

 

[4Twenty]

I'm basing it on this:

Clearly indicates Broberg is a superior offensive player with significant physical advantages in terms of size and skating. More active in the offensive zone and more committed to generating offense. Better shot, better skater, etc. I'm looking for upside here, I don't want the safe pick.

I don't think that's accurate though. Broberg is a puck rusher, so in that example he's a better straight line skater with more power, but he's not better at generating offense; nor would I say he's better on his edges or walking the line. He doesn't have subtlety to his offensive toolbox IMO. It's very similar to Jake Virtanen in that way. Can get on the puck, move it the right way, but once over the blueline, the sense is limited.

I see a lack of playmaking ability, and a real struggle to make the simple pass leaving the zone. I don't see a lot of stretch passes either. IMO a defensman needs to be able to pass the puck, I think Broberg is limited in these aspects, but his rushing ability is incredible.

I think it's a classic scouting mistake to only look at size and puck rushing when analyzing defensman, it's what gets Luca Sbisa's drafted 20-30 spots ahead of Roman Josi's.

 

[TruGr1t]

I don't think that's accurate though. Broberg is a puck rusher, so in that example he's a better straight line skater with more power, but he's not better at generating offense; nor would I say he's better on his edges or walking the line. He doesn't have subtlety to his offensive toolbox IMO. It's very similar to Jake Virtanen in that way. Can get on the puck, move it the right way, but once over the blueline, the sense is limited.

I see a lack of playmaking ability, and a real struggle to make the simple pass leaving the zone. I don't see a lot of stretch passes either. IMO a defensman needs to be able to pass the puck, I think Broberg is limited in these aspects, but his rushing ability is incredible.

I've heard it both ways with Broberg. The columnist writing that article certainly seems to have watched a lot of both players, but that's really all I have to go on outside of the international games I've caught and YouTube videos. At the end of the day, I'm very concerned with Soderstrom's offensive upside. It's pretty unanimous from what I've read that he's a conservative player that's not particularly engaged on the offensive side of the puck. He isn't an elite skater (outside of potentially some edge work), he's not very big, and gets by mostly with good vision. And that's fine. I'd take that guy 100% in the 2nd round. I just wouldn't take him at 10 OA.

In terms of Broberg I've seen/heard he's got a fairly good first pass. He just doesn't have a lot of agility at speed when skating with the puck (so I get the Virtanen comp). Broberg is usually given credit, however, for being a good rover in the offensive zone that leverages his size and skating ability.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

I see zero chance he will be available at 10.

It's not 0% IMO.

It's likely Byram/Turcotte at 3/4.

If the Big WHL boys go along with Caufield who has a rocket attached to his draft stock, that's 5-7.

Add a team jumping on a dman, thats 8. And if someone loves Podkolzin.... Boom Zegras is available.

I think he goes in the 5-7 range though

 

[4Twenty]

It's not 0% IMO.

It's likely Byram/Turcotte at 3/4.

If the Big WHL boys go along with Caufield who has a rocket attached to his draft stock, that's 5-7.

Add a team jumping on a dman, thats 8. And if someone loves Podkolzin.... Boom Zegras is available.

I think he goes in the 5-7 range though

If the desire for speed is to be believed, I can't see Zegras being a guy they key on. 1040 interview the NTDP coach yesterday, pretty great interview outlining play style/strengths/weaknesses of Boldy/Caufield/Zegras near the end. Definitely worth a listen if you didn't hear it. sting101 posted the link a page or two back.

 

[racerjoe]

I've heard it both ways with Broberg. The columnist writing that article certainly seems to have watched a lot of both players, but that's really all I have to go on outside of the international games I've caught and YouTube videos. At the end of the day, I'm very concerned with Soderstrom's offensive upside. It's pretty unanimous from what I've read that he's a conservative player that's not particularly engaged on the offensive side of the puck. He isn't an elite skater (outside of potentially some edge work), he's not very big, and gets by mostly with good vision. And that's fine. I'd take that guy 100% in the 2nd round. I just wouldn't take him at 10 OA.

In terms of Broberg I've seen/heard he's got a fairly good first pass. He just doesn't have a lot of agility at speed when skating with the puck (so I get the Virtanen comp). Broberg is usually given credit, however, for being a good rover in the offensive zone that leverages his size and skating ability.

I don't think this is how it plays out though. First, I wouldn't pick Soderstrom at 10 either, but I would pick him 10 out of 10 times above Broberg.

Second, I don't need to look far to say Soderstroms more conservative play leads to more points. Again he is producing almost the same amount, in a much tougher league. I don't think you can discount this. I also think His IQ is much higher where he can make the simple smart plays to drive offense. Obviously a terrible comparison, but Lidstrom was a lot like this where he would just make the smart plays and it would lead to offense.

 

[TruGr1t]

I don't think this is how it plays out though. First, I wouldn't pick Soderstrom at 10 either, but I would pick him 10 out of 10 times above Broberg.

Second, I don't need to look far to say Soderstroms more conservative play leads to more points. Again he is producing almost the same amount, in a much tougher league. I don't think you can discount this. I also think His IQ is much higher where he can make the simple smart plays to drive offense. Obviously a terrible comparison, but Lidstrom was a lot like this where he would just make the smart plays and it would lead to offense.

Fair enough. And honestly, I don't know who has the higher offensive upside. But seriously, pick that guy. I don't want a defenseman high in the first round that doesn't have a clear-cut two-way game. If there's any questions around offensive upside I'd just draft a forward and fill your boots with defensemen in the later rounds.

My opinion may be coloured by the fact the Canucks have been incapable of generating offense from the blue line for basically 5 years.

 

[UK Canuck]

Ville Heinola is better than Soderstrom IMO

 

[Horvat1C]

Ville Heinola is better than Soderstrom IMO

I see Heinola's absolute ceiling as a Werenski type top pairing defenseman.

 

[biturbo19]

It wouldn't surprise me if Krebs, Zegras and Newhook all end up as centres either. The point is in isolating who is more likely to do so. This is why I'm curious as to the third interview candidate. If it's another C, and not Boldy/Caufield/Other winger, then we can see Benning's preference at work.

Pelletier is tenacious, stocky and is always in the play. He makes himself a factor. Now, he has major knocks in shooting, size and skating. He makes up for latter two with his intelligence and motor. Also, I see him as the most productive CHL forward in consideration. There has been analytics talk of how to evaluate the QMJLHL vs the WHL and OHL. It's seen as a slightly harder league at the moment. Take that for what it's worth.

Fair enough on Pelletier. I like those elements of his game too. He also has a fairly mature game, works the cycle well, and he's got a strong stick using that short people leverage effectively which is important for smaller guys. It's just not, 10th overall like for me. Especially not with some of the other players, at least a few of whom will have to be available at 10 no matter the top-9 selections. I get the impression you're projecting him as a potential Center as a pro? That might be part of the difference, since i see him as a winger.

How would you compare Pelletier and his upside vs Anthony Beauvillier as a prospect a few years back?

It is interesting that in production equivalencies, the Q might actually be slightly tougher now. Seems like a lot of people out there who still treat the Q like a second tier citizen in the CHL. I'd imagine that reflects pretty well on a guy like Lavoie then, whose combined full season+playoff sample is within arms reach of Pelletier's full season+playoff ppg figure?


I see your point on the meetings as well. Think i misinterpreted exactly what you were getting at as a more broad assumption. No need to derail going round and round on that tangent.

 

[racerjoe]

Ville Heinola is better than Soderstrom IMO

I like him a lot too. I have him also higher than Broberg, and have had him above Soderstrom at times. Not sure who I like better at this moment. But still can’t see a scenario I take him at ten with who should be available.

 

[0494]

I'm pretty excited. The 6 - 12 range could go so many different ways.

 

[4Twenty]

Ville Heinola is better than Soderstrom IMO

Heinola I see as more of an offensive defender than Soderstrom, but his skating really scares me. He's a heal dragger with slow feet. He's incredibly poised with the puck though and makes decisions very quickly, I just have concerns about his skating. Wouldn't use 10th on him.

Fair enough on Pelletier. I like those elements of his game too. He also has a fairly mature game, works the cycle well, and he's got a strong stick using that short people leverage effectively which is important for smaller guys. It's just not, 10th overall like for me. Especially not with some of the other players, at least a few of whom will have to be available at 10 no matter the top-9 selections. I get the impression you're projecting him as a potential Center as a pro? That might be part of the difference, since i see him as a winger.

How would you compare Pelletier and his upside vs Anthony Beauvillier as a prospect a few years back?

It is interesting that in production equivalencies, the Q might actually be slightly tougher now. Seems like a lot of people out there who still treat the Q like a second tier citizen in the CHL. I'd imagine that reflects pretty well on a guy like Lavoie then, whose combined full season+playoff sample is within arms reach of Pelletier's full season+playoff ppg figure?


I see your point on the meetings as well. Think i misinterpreted exactly what you were getting at as a more broad assumption. No need to derail going round and round on that tangent.

Pelletier looks underskilled, but he reminds me of Brendan Gallagher.

Gallagher is 5th in goals and 10th in points from the 2010 class. Sometimes it's not all about talent. I wouldn't put him at 10th, but I think he'd be a reasonable bet after 20.

 

[biturbo19]

Actually, Zegras is a bit of risk, as is Newhook. Neither is seen as versatile or 'sure' as Boldy.

I don't think they are targeting a dman, I think they're targeting Broberg. Just as they are also targeting Newhook. They'll have their 3 choices and pick one of the remaining.

Yeah, there's definitely some risk with Zegras and Newhook. I think Zegras probably has the highest "upside" of the likely candidates at 10 if he's there, with his vision as a passer being a cut above, and the agility and puck skills to control the play like that. There are elements of his game that i think he's really going to have to round out to get the most out of his natural ability as a Pro though. There's risk in that.

Newhook obviously has some risk too, any time you're drafting out of a lesser competition league like that, it can introduce some uncertainty in how it will translate up those extra notches of competition. I'd be really happy with either, and feel pretty good about those potential liabilities weighed against their respective talent and upsides, especially since they seem to both have the right attitudes and "student of the game" mentality. But there's risk nonetheless.

Yeah I'm aware that that is a big difference between them. Never heard the Mark Stone stuff before though, that's news to me. I don't exactly hate Wahlstrom either, he showed pretty well in Bridgeport at the end of the season. They'll both likely play; I just think the complementary forwards on that team can be a little over hyped, and possibly so in this case.

While that can be true of the NTDP, especially when a lesser guy manages to worm their way onto a stacked #1PP Unit picking up shrapnel points coming off the play drivers...i don't really read Boldy as any kind of "passenger". I don't think he's going to be a pure play-driver at the NHL level, but he's got a really balanced and versatile skillset to play that complementary Top-6 winger role that helps make the whole line better, and allows the line-driving top skill to elevate everyone's game.

I don't see Boldy having the same absolute upside as Zegras, but i do think he's probably a little bit safer on the whole. It's hard to see Boldy not at least finding himself a steady gig as a versatile Top-9 complementary winger with size, that every team likes to have...with complementary Top-6 upside beyond that. Whereas if Zegras works on some entirely rectifiable engagement things, he's got line-driving star upside imo.

 

[biturbo19]

I can understand drafting Broberg for his upside but Soderstrom would just be a..... boring pick. Almost like OJ

I think if Broberg puts it all together (big if) he will end up as the best dman from this draft class. He has shades of Klingberg in his game.

Yeah. A Soderstrom pick would certainly fall a bit flat for me. It's hard to ever really bet against smarts and reliability in a defenceman, but it just doesn't feel like a very high upside bet like you kinda want in the Top-10. I don't really feel that great about Broberg "putting it all together" either, but i could at least see some "swing for the fences" mentality there, which i'd at least understand.

I don't really see Klingberg in Broberg at all though, other than being taller Swedes who can skate well. The natural offensive feel for the game is the thing that Klingberg has in spades, but seems to be missing from Broberg's game. If anyone has some Klingberg to them, i'd say it's probably Cam York or Thomas Harley, who both have that easy offensive ability and look completely at home jumping into the play offensively.

I like him too. Think he's underrated among the considered Dmen. Same with Harley.

That said, I would still go with a forward. There is a drop off in quality after the top8~ forwards. If there's a chance to get one, the Canucks should take it.

Agreed. I think York and Harley are probably the two D with the highest offensive upside there. I wouldn't be upset with either at 10, but Harley's defensive game does worry me more than York, or some of the other defencemen like Seider and Heinola. But the upside is there with both. I just feel you're probably bang on, in that it's highly likely that the best available for me at 10 is going to end up being one of the really good Forward prospects.

I think it's shaping up to have some pretty good defencemen with significant upside available at our 2nd pick too. Who are probably closer to the defencemen available at 10, than the 2nd round forwards are going to be to guys like Zegras/Krebs/Newhook/Boldy/Cozens et al.

After reading that article, Newhook screams Future Canuck. Hockey nerd and work horse (Like Horvat/Pettersson), down to earth kid who knows he's special and needs to share that in the best way possible (Like Boeser).

If the Canucks walk away with Newhook and then grab one for the Kelowna right shot dmen in the 2nd, that would be a very good haul for their top two picks

I think that's probably best-case scenario. Newhook, or one of those other high-end forwards mentioned above at 10. Then hopefully a nice defensive prospect falls in our laps in the 2nd.

Lassi Thomson is one of those potential 2nd round targets that has nice upside for me. Korczak not as much though. Korczak's game is a lot more well-rounded and there are some warts to Thomson that make him a bit riskier, but Korczak has a real Guillaume "Gilliam" Brisebois feel to him for me. Not really deficient anywhere, but a lot of really ho-hum across the board, no real standout ability. Could do a lot worse, it's always nice to have a guy coming out of a program that's demonstrated an ability to churn out NHL defenders, and i think he's relatively safe as a guy who will find his way to the NHL eventually, but i'm not sold on the upside at 40, with others that feel richer in upside hopefully available.

If i'm driving any sort of hype train for #40 this year, it's probably hoping Kolyachonok falls to our pick because of his weird Belarussian passport and having his sneaky good upside kinda buried on bad teams.

Krebs/Zegras + Kolyachonok would probably be a dream draft for me through two rounds.

 

[biturbo19]

Pelletier looks underskilled, but he reminds me of Brendan Gallagher.

Gallagher is 5th in goals and 10th in points from the 2010 class. Sometimes it's not all about talent. I wouldn't put him at 10th, but I think he'd be a reasonable bet after 20.

That's about where i'd probably feel good about landing Pelletier too. I'm not sure i see Gallagher though. Some similarities in the way they use their shorter stature to advantage in the corners and taking pucks away. Pretty fearless in traffic. Pelletier is more well-rounded overall though, but i don't think he has the same special level of pestiness and relentless net front nuisance specialization that makes Gallagher so effective. That's where i see more Beauvillier to him, with a more balanced all-around skillset and a similar sort of skill level and motor.

I think Bobby Brink kinda has to work his way into the conversation in that same sort of range too, as another similar-ish small player with lots of skill and a pretty good motor. Though that range in the ~20s is probably a no-mans-land for the Canucks between our two picks, unless one of those guys ends up slipping into the 2nd round for us - which doesn't seem likely, but that part of the draft could be absolutely wide open.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

So Zegras and Newhook are apparently getting second interviews with the team, according to Rick Dhaliwal. He feels 1-2 other prospects will also get a follow up interview.

 

[THE Green Man]

So Zegras and Newhook are apparently getting second interviews with the team, according to Rick Dhaliwal. He feels 1-2 other prospects will also get a follow up interview.

Hopefully Boldy in case he somehow gets to us. Otherwise those 2 I am good with at 10. Newhook is growing on me more and more but I'm still wishy washy on Krebs.

 

[Zombotron]

I am expecting Zegras and Athanasiou to form two thirds of a Greek Connection line in Detroit

 

[4Twenty]

Yay, @biturbo19 someone else loves Kolyachonok as much as me. I think he could go top 20. If he stayed in London all year I bet he would easily be a consensus top 15 pick.