OT: 2019 Football Thread: Part II – Free Agency and The Draft

[Uncle Dru]

welp.

Unreal...he was the last defensive starter in the game at that point

 

[East Coast Bias]

That sucks. f***ing preseason.

 

[nyr2k2]

Big opportunity for Cashman, who has been good in camp by all accounts. Hewitt, as well.

 

[Bob Richards]

Motherf***er Jones

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Jones looks legit. I’ll be glad to eat crow on that pick.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

What's great about Jones looking good is if he turns out to be the real deal he'll validate 2 picks. Barkley's and his. And as quirky and downright annoying as DG is most of the time those two picks and some solid depth would honestly arguably catapult him to being one of the best GMs in the game. The smug media and opposing fans would then be able to (blank) his (blank).

For full transparency, I bought the media's take on Jones myself so I'm not exempt from this.

 

[klingsor]

Don't know if it's still on but as a kid in the 50s I used to occasionally watch "Davey and Goliath (it creeped me out).

Anyway, doesn't Daniel Jones look a bit like Davey or am I nuts as usual?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Don't know if it's still on but as a kid in the 50s I used to occasionally watch "Davey and Goliath (it creeped me out).

Anyway, doesn't Daniel Jones look a bit like Davey or am I nuts as usual?

They had colored TV in the 50s or was that reimaged?

 

[Boris Zubov]

They had colored TV in the 50s or was that reimaged?

That show is from the mid 60s.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

What's great about Jones looking good is if he turns out to be the real deal he'll validate 2 picks. Barkley's and his. And as quirky and downright annoying as DG is most of the time those two picks and some solid depth would honestly arguably catapult him to being one of the best GMs in the game. The smug media and opposing fans would then be able to (blank) his (blank).

For full transparency, I bought the media's take on Jones myself so I'm not exempt from this.

Even if Jones turns out to be a stud, I still hate the pick.

Nothing to do with the player. I hope Jones becomes an elite QB. He's done everything you could ask him to do in preseason, certainly.

That changes nothing about the fact that he was wasted value at #6. Josh Allen was the pick there. Jones would have 100% been available at #17. Instead of Allen AND Jones, we end up with Jones and Lawrence.

So, at least to me, the nature of the f*** up is going to be Lawrence versus Allen. I'll eat crow if Lawrence is the better player, but I think that has a negligible chance of happening. Jones was also a position of need, so I'm all around salty about it.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Even if Jones turns out to be a stud, I still hate the pick.

Nothing to do with the player. I hope Jones becomes an elite QB. He's done everything you could ask him to do in preseason, certainly.

That changes nothing about the fact that he was wasted value at #6. Josh Allen was the pick there. Jones would have 100% been available at #17. Instead of Allen AND Jones, we end up with Jones and Lawrence.

So, at least to me, the nature of the **** up is going to be Lawrence versus Allen. I'll eat crow if Lawrence is the better player, but I think that has a negligible chance of happening. Jones was also a position of need, so I'm all around salty about it.

It's much, much, much more likely we end up with Allen and Jones BEFORE 17 and don't have the ability to take Baker since we traded up to take Jones.

So is it better value for Allen and Jones or Jones, Lawrence, and Baker?

 

[sbjnyc]

Jones hasn't played against a 1st team defense yet. Dan Quinn is 0-11 in preseason last few years and Nagy is 2-5. Coaches like Quinn don't care at all about preseason games. Nagy is too new to really tell but he sat his entire 1st team vs the Giants. If you don't play your starting QB you don't need to play your 1st string OL (aside from recent top picks like Jones). You really can't tell much from preseason. Jones has talent but that doesn't always translate, though. On the other hand he hasn't had the chance to play with Saquon.

 

[SA16]

I think the Jones pick was better than the Barkley pick.

Nobody rated Jones that high - absolutely true. The likely could have got him with their second pick (but not definitely). If you think he's a potential quality starting QB down the road you have to do it because of how valuable the QB is. You don't want to risk missing out on him only to find out down the road you were right.

Barkley is a great running back. Already one of the best in the league. Except he plays a position that barely makes a difference on how a team does. Bell is/was also a great RB. The Steelers performed better last year (and in prior years) without him than they did with him. Taking a RB early is even worse because of their short shelf life and the fact by taking them early it almost surely means he's going to a bad tea.m

 

[Beer League Sniper]

It's much, much, much more likely we end up with Allen and Jones BEFORE 17 and don't have the ability to take Baker since we traded up to take Jones.

So is it better value for Allen and Jones or Jones, Lawrence, and Baker?

I completely disagree with this premise.

Trading up for Jones before 17 would have been another terrible value proposition, which is what I have a problem with in the first place about taking him at 6.

I could have lived with Jones at 17. Bit of a reach there, but understandable if you think he's Eli's successor.

Having a talent like Allen drop into our laps, and not picking him, was inexcusable to me. BPA, and a position of dire need. Instead, we reach for a QB who was ranked as a late 1st/early 2nd, when we have another pick we could comfortably grab him at.

It makes no sense.

 

[SA16]

I think they were both bad picks but I would rather make a bad pick on a QB - who if you are right completely changes the franchise - than make a bad pick on a RB - who if you are right barely changes a thing.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think they were both bad picks but I would rather make a bad pick on a QB - who if you are right completely changes the franchise - than make a bad pick on a RB - who if you are right barely changes a thing.

I don't disagree with your premise, however if you found a "game manager" QB and paired him with a game-breaking RB like Barkley, that definitely would change things. It doesn't follow the conventional, contemporary NFL model where you need a stud QB, but I think you could find success like that.

Problem is, if you want to go the route I described, you'd need a strong defense that would allow your ball-control offense to work. And at least a decent WR corp for your Dilfer-like QB to hit to keep the opposition honest.

 

[SA16]

I don't disagree with your premise, however if you found a "game manager" QB and paired him with a game-breaking RB like Barkley, that definitely would change things. It doesn't follow the conventional, contemporary NFL model where you need a stud QB, but I think you could find success like that.

The real problem is all the value in RB comes from their first contract when they are cheap. Having Barkley on a good team would be a great weapon. What's he going to do for the Giants for his first 4-5 years on his rookie deal? They were already one of the worst teams in the league when they got him and have a 40 year old QB. Now their QB is earlier, their going to transition to a prospect, and they traded their best WR. By the time the Giants are likely good again he will be onto his second contract making in the 12M+ range (Gurley got 4-49 near guaranteed), in his late twenties, and making a ton of money which which a RB should never get and hurt the team from getting players elsewhere.

I didn't want the Jets to sign Bell either but it is a little different as they're not passing up someone else on a rookie deal to get him and they had a ton of cap space that does need to be spent and they can easily cut him after year 2 with minimal dead cap if they want to spend the money elsewhere at that point.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I think the Jones pick was better than the Barkley pick.

Nobody rated Jones that high - absolutely true. The likely could have got him with their second pick (but not definitely). If you think he's a potential quality starting QB down the road you have to do it because of how valuable the QB is. You don't want to risk missing out on him only to find out down the road you were right.

Barkley is a great running back. Already one of the best in the league. Except he plays a position that barely makes a difference on how a team does. Bell is/was also a great RB. The Steelers performed better last year (and in prior years) without him than they did with him. Taking a RB early is even worse because of their short shelf life and the fact by taking them early it almost surely means he's going to a bad tea.m

Precisely why, as much as I personally disliked the pick, I can see why they made it. And, I even said at the time, that I am glad that they went out and got "their guy" even if "their guy" wasn't "my guy".

 

[Bob Richards]

Precisely why, as much as I personally disliked the pick, I can see why they made it. And, I even said at the time, that I am glad that they went out and got "their guy" even if "their guy" wasn't "my guy".

Yeah this, as weird as it might sound. I disliked the pick immensely but if you believe in a QB then you go out and get him. The player isn't really what I myself wanted but the principle of what they did was sound.

 

[Bob Richards]

Also in this current iteration of the NFL salary cap, QBs on rookie deals are outrageously valuable.

 

[romba]

Not as bad as punching yourself in the nose by messing with your teamates contract negotiation in the media (telling a holdout 'you're either with us or against us' lmao) but Mayfield still needs to learn to zip it or be a teensy bit more diplomatic.

"UNFATHOMABLE THE GIANTS PICKED A LOSER LIKE JONES"
vs
"Outside the box pick, Jones had an up and down college tenure, maybe Giants were overthinking it but time will tell".

 

[East Coast Bias]

Why does anyone ask Baker Mayfield about the Giants QB situation? Who cares what he thinks?

Also - I think Gruden and Mayock are idiots, but at this point, who can blame anything the Raiders say or do? Antonio Brown is a weapons grade clown.

 

[romba]

Why does anyone ask Baker Mayfield about the Giants QB situation? Who cares what he thinks?

Also - I think Gruden and Mayock are idiots, but at this point, who can blame anything the Raiders say or do? Antonio Brown is a weapons grade clown.

They ask cuz the Giants are a hot topic for the Browns apparently due to OBJ still being butthurt from the trade he always wanted. The interviewer was aware of this and knew Mayfield's emotions would get the better of him and he ran his mouth as expected and look how much traction it's getting today.

'Weapons Grade clown' lol perfect, no better way to describe AB at this point. GM has to be the 'bad cop' and Gruden is then the 'good cop' it's a complete joke in Oakland right nah.

 

[Bob Richards]

Thing is, no one asked Baker Mayfield anything. The Giants were on an ESPN segment nearby the interview and Baker made those comments completely on his own volition lol

 

[Fitzy]

The Giants should redraw the offensive playbook when and if Jones replaces Eli. Add in some more option pitch plays and creativity.

Obviously that won't happen this season, though I could see a Warner-Eli esque midseason switch if NYG dont look playoff bound.