Prospect Info: 2019 Draft Thread: Oilers Picking 8th

[MessierII]

r with a 4 million cap hit for a team . I know fans don't like the cap hit but the owners of small market teams like the higher cap hit with lower dollars to payou

Cap hit don’t change bud. He’s still gonna be a 6 mil cap hit regardless of when he’s traded.

 

[McSuper]

Cap hit don’t change bud. He’s still gonna be a 6 mil cap hit regardless of when he’s traded.

Read ! I said with 1/3 retained . You know retaining means the other team gets a cap savings ? Try to follow along .

Here my quote

This wouldn't be too smart .

"Lucic+8th OA >>>>> Then 6 million in cap space and 7th rd pick . The 6 million would have to be spent on a UFA and we all know they get overpaid . We just don't have the assets to be throwing away . I still think Lucic will be very tradable July 1 2020 . 10 million over 3 years retain 1/3 making it 6.67 million over 3 years so roughly 2.22 million a year with a 4 million cap hit for a team . I know fans don't like the cap hit but the owners of small market teams like the higher cap hit with lower dollars to payout ."​

 

[Nostradumbass]

Read ! I said with 1/3 retained . You know retaining means the other team gets a cap savings ? Try to follow along .

Here my quote

This wouldn't be too smart .

"Lucic+8th OA >>>>> Then 6 million in cap space and 7th rd pick . The 6 million would have to be spent on a UFA and we all know they get overpaid . We just don't have the assets to be throwing away . I still think Lucic will be very tradable July 1 2020 . 10 million over 3 years retain 1/3 making it 6.67 million over 3 years so roughly 2.22 million a year with a 4 million cap hit for a team . I know fans don't like the cap hit but the owners of small market teams like the higher cap hit with lower dollars to payout ."​

Nice try bud, cap hit don't change.

 

[McSuper]

Nice try bud, cap hit don't change.

What wrong with people this morning . Are they still drunk ? If you retain 1/3 you are keeping 2 million of the 6 million and 1/3 of the remaining dollars . Better check it out if you don't believe me .

 

[Nostradumbass]

What wrong with people this morning . Are they still drunk ? If you retain 1/3 you are keeping 2 million of the 6 million and 1/3 of the remaining dollars . Better check it out if you don't believe me .

No, it don't budge bud.

 

[McSuper]

No, it don't budge bud.

You wrong . If you retain 1/3 you are keeping the cap hit of 1/3 and the acquiring team gets a cap hit 1/3 less . Do your research . Math is something I know . I had fans arguing with me over LTIR as well and I was right . It would make no sense for a team to retain if the cap stayed the same . Teams retain all the time so the cap hit can fit under the cap of the team making the trade .

Also not even getting into the math it would make no sense to have the cap hit remain the same .

Example

We trade Lucic 50% retained .
We are stuck with a 3 million cap hit

You are saying the team trading for Lucic would also have the full 6 million cap hit

It just wouldn't work as HRR would be out of whack . You can not account for 9 million cap hit on 2 teams for a player that makes 6 million .

 

[McSuper]

No, it don't budge bud.

Retained Salary

When teams trade a player, they can retain, or keep, some of the players' salary and cap hit. The team keeps a % of both the cap hit and salary for the remainder of the contract.
Therefore, if a Player with a Salary of $2.0M and a Cap Hit/AAV of $3.0M is traded with 20% retention, the trading team would continue to pay 20% of the $2.0M Salary and would continue to have a cap hit of 20% of the $3.0M Cap Hit.
The maximum retention % is 50%.
Teams can only carry a maximum of 3 Retained Salaries at a time.
An individual contract can only have a maximum of 2 teams retaining salary on it.
The maximum amount of retained salary by a team is 15% of the Salary Cap for the current year.
If a team retains salary on a traded player and that player is later sent to the minors, there is no change to the cap hit for the retaining team.
If a team retains salary on a trade, they cannot reacquire that player for one year from the date of the transaction, unless the contract ends prior to one year.



Home
The Business of Hockey
How Do Retained Salary Trades Work?

BY MIKE COLLIGAN MARCH 1ST, 2015


Leafs GM Dave Nonis retained half of Daniel Winnik’s salary in this week’s trade with Pittsburgh (Jerry Lai-USA TODAY Sports)
[This is part of the NHL CBA101 Frequently Asked Questions series on ColliganHockey.com. If you have a salary cap or CBA question, please submit it here.]
The 2013 CBA gave teams the flexibility to retain a percentage of salary and cap hits in trades. Calgary Flames President Brian Burke championed this idea for years at GM meetings before it was finally adopted.
There are a few key limitations:

• ‘Salary’ refers to remaining base player salary and bonuses, including signing bonuses.
• The percentage retained cannot be more than 50 percent of the salary and cap hit.
• The same percentage must be retained for both salary and cap hit. This cannot be altered from year to year.
• Teams are limited to three retained salary contracts each season.
• Teams cannot retain more than an aggregate amount of 15 percent of the salary cap upper limit. In 2014-15 that number is $10.35 million.
• A player’s contract can only be traded twice in a retained salary transaction.

There are a few specific scenarios highlighted by the CBA to keep in mind.
If a team trades away a player and retains salary in the transaction, that team cannot reacquire the player for one calendar year after the date of the transaction. One exception to this would be if the player’s contract expires or is otherwise terminated prior to the one calendar year date. In this case, the original team would be free to reacquire the player as the retained salary element no longer exists.
The CBA also prohibits a team from trading away a player and then reacquiring that player in a retained salary transaction within one year of the original trade.
If a contract involved in a retained salary transaction is bought out or terminated, all teams involved will be responsible for their respective percentage of obligations.
If a player acquired in a retained salary transaction is sent to the minors, the original team (the one that retained salary) must still include their portion of the contract on their salary cap for the remainder of the contract, regardless of whether the player is ever recalled or not. This prevents a team from cutting a player’s contract in half and then having the new team make the cap hit disappear by sending him to the minors.
Finally, a second retained salary transaction does not modify in any way the original terms and obligations of an initial retained salary transaction.

(Steve Mitchell-US PRESSWIRE)
Real Example: Devan Dubnyk’s cross-continent travels in 2014 demonstrated a number of these provisions:

• Jan 15, 2014: Dubnyk was traded from Edmonton to Nashville.
  • Edmonton retained 50% of his salary, or $1.75M of the $3.5M total.
• March 5, 2014: Dubnyk was traded from Nashville to Montreal.
  • Nashville retained 25% of his salary (which applies to the original total). Therefore, the Predators retained $0.875M.
• March 5, 2014: Dubnyk was immediately demoted to Montreal’s AHL affiliate in Hamilton.
  • After the demotion, he didn’t count against Montreal’s cap but he did still count against Edmonton’s ($1.75M) and Nashville’s ($0.875M).

CBA Reference: 50.5 (e-iii) Pages 271-274

And the final nail in your argument . Here what cap hit Nashville had on Dubnyk

PLAYER (11)	POS.	AGE	BASE SALARY	SIGNING BONUS	PERF. BONUS	TOTAL SALARY	TOTAL CAP HIT	ADJ. CAP HIT	CAP %
David Legwand	C	33	$3,576,923	-	-	$3,576,923		$3,576,923	$3,576,923	6.02
Kevin Klein	D	28	$1,680,513	-	-	$1,680,513		$1,680,513	$1,680,513	2.83
Matt Hendricks	LW	32	$1,005,641	-	-	$1,005,641		$1,005,641	$1,005,641	1.69
Devan Dubnyk	G	27	$875,000	-	-	$875,000		$619,231	$619,231	1.04
Filip Forsberg	C	19	$343,910	-	-	$343,910		$343,910	$343,910	0.58
Marek Mazanec	G	22	$228,359	-	-	-		$228,359	$228,359	0.38
Taylor Beck	RW	22	$77,846	-	-	$77,846		$77,846	$77,846	0.13
Magnus Hellberg	G	22	$52,056	-	-	-		$52,056	$52,056	0.09
Simon Moser	LW	24	$43,846	-	-	-		$43,846	$43,846	0.07
Joe Piskula	D	29	$14,103	-	-	-		$14,103	$14,103	0.02
Mark Van Guilder	C	29	$2,821	-	-	-		$2,821	$2,821	0.00

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2013-2014 Cap Totals

Notice Dubnyk cap hit isn't 100% . It is because Edmonton retained lowering the cap hit

 

[nafrelio]

Cap still doesn't budge bud...



I agree with your plan. If they cannot trade Lucic this summer (not likely), then hopefully he doesn't continue to crap the bed next season and they can trade him after July 1 when his bonus is paid. $2.22 million a year can be justified if the cap hit is double that. Ideally, we find a taker with no retention and not have to give up a high pick. So they pay $3.33 million with a $6m cap hit.

Trading our 1st to get rid of Lucic is assinine.

 

[McSuper]

Cap still doesn't budge bud...



I agree with your plan. If they cannot trade Lucic this summer (not likely), then hopefully he doesn't continue to crap the bed next season and they can trade him after July 1 when his bonus is paid. $2.22 million a year can be justified if the cap hit is double that. Ideally, we find a taker with no retention and not have to give up a high pick. So they pay $3.33 million with a $6m cap hit.

Trading our 1st to get rid of Lucic is assinine.

The proof is there so either you can not read or have issues admitting you are wrong . Do the research and prove your argument . I showed you the Dubnyk trade . He was making 3.5 million we retained on that . I showed you Nashville wasn't hit with the 3.5 cap hit it was 50% less and that is what Edmonton retained .

I have issue dealing with people who won't admit to making a mistake . Glad I won't have to hear from you again . I am sure you will hear as other posters come in .

 

[bobbythebrain]

No, it don't budge bud.

Yup. It does pal. Do you not even know your own team? See Patrick Maroon former contract if you're that confused

 

[nafrelio]

The proof is there so either you can read or have issues admitting you are wrong . Do the research and prove your argument . I showed you the Dubnyk trade . He was making 3.5 million we retained on that . I showed you Nashville wasn't hit with the 3.5 cap hit it was 50% less and that is what Edmonton retained .

I have issue dealing with people who won't admit to making a mistake . Glad I won't have to hear from you again . I am sure you will hear as other posters come in .

You got the wrong guy.

I was being sarcastic...sorry you missed that and felt the need to redefend your case. lol

 

[gordonhught]

Why does every 2nd fan want to throw Jones into trades . He will be our best left hand D in 2 years . Yes better then Nurse , Better Klefbom at defence and not injury prone . Unless Nurse finds his defensive side of the game and can put up 40 points year in year out he isn't worth the raise he was seeking during his last contract negotiation . Keep Jones at all cost .

Because you would be trading up to get Byram who will certainly be better than Jones and will be one of the best left handed D in the league in a few years.

 

[McSuper]

Because you would be trading up to get Byram who will certainly be better than Jones and will be one of the best left handed D in the league in a few years.

I agree he would be better then Jones but would he be better then Jones + one of the forwards at 8 OA . I am not sure you can measure that but our need for forward vs D I think I would make the pick at 8 . But I could be wrong . As I mention in previous post I haven't followed the prospects at all this year .

Yup. It does pal. Do you not even know your own team? See Patrick Maroon former contract if you're that confused

I showed him enough proof and he refuses to listen . Some people are too insecure to admit to being wrong . It no big deal we all make mistakes

 

[dustrock]

Here is the most recent shift-by-shift of Dylan Cozens I could find.

He got a goal and an assist, his goal a really nice rush on the PP, and his assist was secondary from a breakout pass. At even strength though, he was absolutely invisible. Cozens' has got speed for sure and his hands are nice, but he can't seem to find any kind of space except for on the PP. I think a faster Monahan is probably a good comparison if he reaches his ceiling. Both have got nice shots and will get a point, but then become unnoticeable for the rest of the game.
.

Fair enough, except that Cozens' 5v5 scoring this year is a fair bit ahead of Dach and Krebs. So I'm not sure the narrative that he's primarily a PP producer is true.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Fair enough, except that Cozens' 5v5 scoring this year is a fair bit ahead of Dach and Krebs. So I'm not sure the narrative that he's primarily a PP producer is true.

I'm not saying he's a powerplay specialist or anything. I'm saying the vast majority of his even strength offense comes on the rush, which I don't think will work as well as it does in junior.

 

[dustrock]

I'm not saying he's a powerplay specialist or anything. I'm saying the vast majority of his even strength offense comes on the rush, which I don't think will work as well as it does in junior.

You might be right, his goals in the warmup game against Russia came SHG and on a penalty shot.

Oilers need more skill in general, but a fast, strong center/winger who can shoot is attractive too. I get the desire to look at someone who is a better "halfcourt" player, because Gord knows the Oilers need more of those. I mean you can argue if there's 1 thing McDavid and Draisaitl need to work on offensively, it's in the halfcourt; their transition game is obviously tops in the NHL.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

You might be right, his goals in the warmup game against Russia came SHG and on a penalty shot.

Oilers need more skill in general, but a fast, strong center/winger who can shoot is attractive too. I get the desire to look at someone who is a better "halfcourt" player, because Gord knows the Oilers need more of those. I mean you can argue if there's 1 thing McDavid and Draisaitl need to work on offensively, it's in the halfcourt; their transition game is obviously tops in the NHL.

For what it's worth I'd still be very happy with Cozens. He's 8/9th on my draft list and definitely has elements this team lacks. I just don't think he's as much of a home run pick as most do.

 

[alphahelix]

For what it's worth I'd still be very happy with Cozens. He's 8/9th on my draft list and definitely has elements this team lacks. I just don't think he's as much of a home run pick as most do.

He will be long gone because hes an impact forward.

 

[780il]

For what it's worth I'd still be very happy with Cozens. He's 8/9th on my draft list and definitely has elements this team lacks. I just don't think he's as much of a home run pick as most do.

Same here. Id gladly take him if the top 2 + Turcotte, Dach, Byram, Zegras, and Krebs are all gone by our pick.

 

[Nostradumbass]

You got the wrong guy.

I was being sarcastic...sorry you missed that and felt the need to redefend your case. lol

I was being 100% sarcastic too, mocking the previous poster hahaha. Hence the incorrect use of "don't" and repetitive "bud." I'm surprised with how much work McSuper put in to that reply considering my two replies were written in between sips of coffee at work.

 

[5 14 6 1]

My list for the Oil (I don't touch Podkolzin if im oil management but he belongs on the list)

Hughes
Kakko
Byram
Dach
Turcotte
Podkolzin
Cozens
Zegras
Krebs
Boldy

 

[BlueCheeseWithWings]

The proof is there so either you can not read or have issues admitting you are wrong . Do the research and prove your argument . I showed you the Dubnyk trade . He was making 3.5 million we retained on that . I showed you Nashville wasn't hit with the 3.5 cap hit it was 50% less and that is what Edmonton retained .

I have issue dealing with people who won't admit to making a mistake . Glad I won't have to hear from you again . I am sure you will hear as other posters come in .

You're a mouthy bitch. Ha.

 

[Zaddy]

Seems like Turcotte will play at the U18's after all.

 

[MettleMcOiler]

Taking a brief look at other teams boards...

1. NJD - Hughes
2. NYR - Kakko
3. CHI - Byram
4. COL - Cozens
5. LA - Turcotte
6. DET - Podkolzin
7. BUF - Dach

8. EDM -

Players left available in our range - Krebs, Zegras, Boldy, Caufield, Kaliyev, Soderstrom, Heinola, Broberg

 

[780il]

Taking a brief look at other teams boards...

1. NJD - Hughes
2. NYR - Kakko
3. CHI - Byram
4. COL - Cozens
5. LA - Turcotte
6. DET - Podkolzin
7. BUF - Dach

8. EDM -

Players left available in our range - Krebs, Zegras, Boldy, Caufield, Kaliyev, Soderstrom, Heinola, Broberg

I want Dach/Turcotte really bad. Sucks that we most likely miss out on both.