2019/20 Roster Thread XXXVIII

[TCTC]

I consider myself to be much more of an optimist than a pessimist in life. But, I'd be lying I said I wasn't if concerned about this management and what their going to do in the next few years.

Fletcher has said a few things throughout his tenure that I have perceived as positives. He's referenced, at least to some degree the use of 'advanced stats' to inform him and the coaching staff. He kept the scouting department together, which has been pretty good for a while now. He doesn't seem to hold onto sunken costs (Hartman, as an example).

However, he's also provided some real head scratching moments. Weird buy-outs, paying a bit too much in contract negotiations, paying too much in trades, signing guys like Stewart, trading for Thompson and Grant.

Fletcher has inherited a top 10-15 on-paper roster, and even if he doesn't do anything this year, it's going to be better through player development and getting healthy.

I very much worry that the moves he's going to make are going to hurt this team. So far, he hasn't shown, to me anyway, any area of above average general managing. I'm not excited about his future tenure with the club. I hope he can prove me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

Provy and TK were great signings. Lindblom could be a steal too. Hayes was a necessary UFA signing. Sanheim makes like 3 million. Who do you consider overpaid?

 

[TCTC]

The post I quoted said the opposite

Not really. I basically said the exact same thing in my original post.

 

[Curufinwe]

Provy and TK were great signings. Lindblom could be a steal too. Hayes was a necessary UFA signing. Sanheim makes like 3 million. Who do you consider overpaid?

$5.5m for a guy with 0 goals in 16 playoff games?

That's a good example of Fletcher hurting the team by overpaying. A smart GM would of bridged.

 

[Adtar02]

Not really. I basically said the exact same thing in my original post.

You need to reread your posts and mine

 

[landsbergfan]

I hope that's true (about AV, anyway), and I can actually see that as a possibility.

It's been pretty clear that Fletcher is attempting to develop a mentally tougher hockey club. He brought in Hayes, Niskanen, Braun, and Stewart - all known for their hockey culture. He brought in AV, a guy known for structure (I don't mean his hockey structure), they brought in a group of seasoned assistant coaches.

It could be that Fletcher just wanted to develop a tougher hockey team, and saw these players and this coaching staff as the foundation. Maybe he sees it a short-term thing. In a vacuum that makes some sense...

Stuff like Stewart doesn't bother me that much, regardless of how little I buy into the whole locker room thing. His effect was minimal both in the long and short term. It is the decisions like the Sanheim contract, trading Ghost, the picks he gave up for Braun and at TDL, and the contracts to come that are what I truly evaluate him on. There will come a time, likely even this offseason, where he has to subtract from the roster in order to try and improve it.

Regardless of what he does, I think there is a chance the team is still good enough to win a cup, but his moves will certainly change the window of opportunity they have and how easily it will be for them to have multiple chances at a cup.

 

[landsbergfan]

$5.5m for a guy with 0 goals in 16 playoff games?

That's a good example of Fletcher hurting the team by overpaying. A smart GM would of bridged.

always better to bridge...You think Konecny gets that much this offseason coming off of that playoff performance?

 

[Striiker]

Glad I got the first word in. Someone be sure to bump it if he re-signs.

Speaking of bumping, someone sure was drinking the Kool-Aid. Embarrassing actually.

Yikes.

Yeah, cause Bunnaman is the answer at 4C in 2020.

Slow, huh. You really studied these guys closely.

Should of traded for a 4C that leads his team in CF/60 and GF/60.

Grant has the kind of hands NAK never will.

Frost isn't a 4C and Patrick isn't even cleared yet.

You think these pig fiddlers would have learned after the Braun disaster.

And a lot of other people where turd polishing incredibly hard in that thread too. It's crazy that some still do.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yeah, no way. No one can even remember the regular season it happened so long ago.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Glad I got the first word in. Someone be sure to bump it if he re-signs.

Speaking of bumping, someone sure was drinking the Kool-Aid. Embarrassing actually.

A whole lot of people should go back and read through their responses and re-think it next time when they start complaining about the complaining. Or not, who cares.

 

[deadhead]

How anyone can have faith in this team's management is beyond me.

How people can be so alarmist after a season that was an obvious step up, when the same "core" players couldn't carry the team the year before.

Only one trade cost anything of value, the Braun deal, and that was the going rate for a veteran D-man at the TDL (see the Dillon deal), but we had Braun all season, allowing them to bring Myers along slowly.
Niskanen cost Gudas, a career 3rd pair defenseman (played behind Dillon who played behind Braun the previous season in San Jose).
Hayes got market rate for UFAs, 1 extra year, 1 extra million, without him we probably don't make the playoffs.
Hartman was turned into Pitlick, an upgrade on the 4th line.
Thompson/Grant or Frost/Bunnaman, either way we're about the same team. The two rookies weren't going to be difference makers.

#11 was turned into York and Brink. Add Attard in the 3rd and Millman in the 4th, his first draft was excellent.

I don't expect Fletcher to pull off miracles like Hextall (or to sign Weise to a 4 year deal).
As long as he's measured and conservative, given all the assets he inherited, things will be just fine.
And given the push for action from above, I think Fletcher did well to take measured steps to be competitive without mortgaging the future.

 

[Striiker]

A whole lot of people should go back and read through their responses and re-think it next time when they start complaining about the complaining. Or not, who cares.

Oh don't you worry, I'll remind them when they defend the next awful thing Fletcher does or complain about people who rightfully criticize it.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Stuff like Stewart doesn't bother me that much, regardless of how little I buy into the whole locker room thing. His effect was minimal both in the long and short term. It is the decisions like the Sanheim contract, trading Ghost, the picks he gave up for Braun and at TDL, and the contracts to come that are what I truly evaluate him on. There will come a time, likely even this offseason, where he has to subtract from the roster in order to try and improve it.

Regardless of what he does, I think there is a chance the team is still good enough to win a cup, but his moves will certainly change the window of opportunity they have and how easily it will be for them to have multiple chances at a cup.

I said this before but to re-emphasize my opinion, I don't think Fletcher is a bad GM. He probably hovers around average, leaning above. None of his offseason moves I would classify as bad with the exception of the Braun deal. My problem? He just never really seemed to get value at the margins. Niskanen? Yes, as long as his play in the return doesn't roll over into next year. That was a risky move, but I'll tip my hat to him. But you give it right back with the Braun, Grant, and Thompson moves. That's a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th, and a 5th for pure rentals who probably didn't add up to any additional value over a replacement level player and maybe even gave up some. Just gutted more than half of a draft from a scouting staff that has been rolling. Those moves just aren't going to create a sustainable winner. One of them? Sure, go crazy, but you're better off just holding on to your chips for a truly difference making move. You can get those guys on the waiver wire each year.

And most of his moves thus far have come from a position of strength - cap space. You're not going to win every move, but you have to win some if you want to sustain success. He needs to hit some doubles and triples. He can't just tread water.

 

[Magua]

A whole lot of people should go back and read through their responses and re-think it next time when they start complaining about the complaining. Or not, who cares.

I said they sucked ass before they put on their Flyers jersey, but that’s not important right now. What’s important is I was back-reading one of those threads and saw you in a heated argument about what Thompson’s nickname should be. You said you’re the official nicknamer here.

Then I had an epiphany. I had to sit down for several minutes because my head was spinning.

You’re the one who gives the nicknames. Kevin Hayes is the one who is the Flyers nicknamer.

 

[deadhead]

I'm not losing sleep over a 4th and 5th at the TDL, that's pocket change for a playoff team with a very deep pipeline.
The Braun deal was pricey, but reflected the mandate to win now and the youth on the defense, our "big three" defensemen were only 23 years old.

Hextall got value at the margins b/c he was rebuilding and there's always a team that's willing to sacrifice value to improve now.
Fletcher doesn't have the luxury of making moves for 3-4 years from now (the Schenn trade).
I mean I'm sure he could get an overpay for Voracek.

 

[deadhead]

The Sanheim move may be accidental genius, with the flat cap, and his meh playoff performance, I suspect Sanheim's price went down slightly, he'd have to have a big season in 2020-21 to get it back to where it was on a long-term deal (averaging in the bridge year contract).

 

[Prongo]

That’s not happening. Agents don’t negotiate off a 20 game sample... his price tag is going up and up every time he steps on the ice and keeps providing 5 vs 5 offense.

 

[Striiker]

That’s not happening. Agents don’t negotiate off a 20 game sample... his price tag is going up and up every time he steps on the ice and keeps providing 5 vs 5 offense.

Nah, surely the agent and GM will ignore everything that happened before and after the Islanders series and just focus on like 3 or 4 games where Sanheim was bad.

I just hope they don't realize that he's been better than Provorov each of the last two years.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I said they sucked ass before they put on their Flyers jersey, but that’s not important right now. What’s important is I was back-reading one of those threads and saw you in a heated argument about what Thompson’s nickname should be. You said you’re the official nicknamer here.

Then I had an epiphany. I had to sit down for several minutes because my head was spinning.

You’re the one who gives the nicknames. Kevin Hayes is the one who is the Flyers nicknamer.

@Captain Dave Poulin whenever he slanders Hayes on here throwing people off the scent.

 

[VladDrag]

Provy and TK were great signings. Lindblom could be a steal too. Hayes was a necessary UFA signing. Sanheim makes like 3 million. Who do you consider overpaid?

I guess the point was more about cap mgmt, I don’t like bridging Sanheim, Hayes got a bit too much, Laughton a bit more.

In a vacuum, none of those are breakers, it in combination they begin to hurt.

it’s not that I any of those moves significantly hurt the team, bit they don’t really ensure my trust.

 

[VladDrag]

I said this before but to re-emphasize my opinion, I don't think Fletcher is a bad GM. He probably hovers around average, leaning above. None of his offseason moves I would classify as bad with the exception of the Braun deal. My problem? He just never really seemed to get value at the margins. Niskanen? Yes, as long as his play in the return doesn't roll over into next year. That was a risky move, but I'll tip my hat to him. But you give it right back with the Braun, Grant, and Thompson moves. That's a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th, and a 5th for pure rentals who probably didn't add up to any additional value over a replacement level player and maybe even gave up some. Just gutted more than half of a draft from a scouting staff that has been rolling. Those moves just aren't going to create a sustainable winner. One of them? Sure, go crazy, but you're better off just holding on to your chips for a truly difference making move. You can get those guys on the waiver wire each year.

And most of his moves thus far have come from a position of strength - cap space. You're not going to win every move, but you have to win some if you want to sustain success. He needs to hit some doubles and triples. He can't just tread water.

Those two bolded statements are basically my point. I want him to succeed, obviously, but I haven’t seen anything (yet) that makes me feel confident in him. Mostly it’s been the opposite.

 

[TCTC]

I guess the point was more about cap mgmt, I don’t like bridging Sanheim, Hayes got a bit too much, Laughton a bit more.

In a vacuum, none of those are breakers, it in combination they begin to hurt.

it’s not that I any of those moves significantly hurt the team, bit they don’t really ensure my trust.

Fair enough. I think bridging Sanheim was inevitable. Fletcher probably wanted to keep a little flexibility for two more years.
They will re-sign him and it will be a fair deal for both sides unless Sanheim gets greedy.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

AV’s here for another 1 1/2 to 2 season tops. You can’t keep calling out players by name to media. The team will quit on him. Fletcher is likely hear for a long long time.

Torts says Hi.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I said they sucked ass before they put on their Flyers jersey, but that’s not important right now. What’s important is I was back-reading one of those threads and saw you in a heated argument about what Thompson’s nickname should be. You said you’re the official nicknamer here.

Then I had an epiphany. I had to sit down for several minutes because my head was spinning.

You’re the one who gives the nicknames. Kevin Hayes is the one who is the Flyers nicknamer.

Right, but as soon as the Flyers signed Kev, I went on a seven-year emotional sabbatical. So you are throwing that EXTREMELY RUDE personal dart at a giant wall of apathy.

 

[deadhead]

I guess the point was more about cap mgmt, I don’t like bridging Sanheim, Hayes got a bit too much, Laughton a bit more.

In a vacuum, none of those are breakers, it in combination they begin to hurt.

it’s not that I any of those moves significantly hurt the team, bit they don’t really ensure my trust.

They were also in the context of a rising cap, who would have thought . . .

 

[Juicy Pop]

There was nothing wrong with the JVR signing, at the time, Patrick was easily projected as a 2C in a year or two, which meant your second line was JVR - Patrick - TK. That would have probably worked out well, but shit happens.

I mean, it could still very well happen. JVR isn't exactly a dead fish just yet.