2019/20 Roster Thread XXXVIII

[Beef Invictus]

I believe Flyers management wants Frost to get more development time in the AHL playing more minutes before he gets a legitimate chance to stick with the Flyers full time.

I don’t think Frost will get a chance to stay with the Flyers if Patrick is healthy. I don’t expect to see Frost full time until the 21-22 season.
By then Hayes should be RW. It would be interesting to see Frost centering G and Hayes.

This is indeed the kind of archaic and useless thinking the team has pursued all our lives.

 

[Rebels57]

I believe Flyers management wants Frost to get more development time in the AHL playing more minutes before he gets a legitimate chance to stick with the Flyers full time.

I don’t think Frost will get a chance to stay with the Flyers if Patrick is healthy. I don’t expect to see Frost full time until the 21-22 season.
By then Hayes should be RW. It would be interesting to see Frost centering G and Hayes.

This is pretty much nonsense.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

This is indeed the kind of archaic and useless thinking the team has pursued all our lives.

From a management standpoint I don’t believe the thinking is any different from the front office. Lots of dinosaurs upstairs still.

This is pretty much nonsense.

I would like to see Frost stay full time in 20-21 but with a healthy lineup + Raffl at 13 possibly, it doesn’t seem like the front office sees a rush to bring Frosty in right away maybe towards to end of the 20-21 season.

 

[Rebels57]

From a management standpoint I don’t believe the thinking is any different from the front office. Lots of dinosaurs upstairs still.


I would like to see Frost stay full time in 20-21 but with a healthy lineup + Raffl at 13 possibly, it doesn’t seem like the front office sees a rush to bring Frosty in right away maybe towards to end of the 20-21 season.

We have no idea what the roster will even look like so its all baseless speculation and should be tabled until closer to camp.

 

[Beef Invictus]

From a management standpoint I don’t believe the thinking is any different from the front office. Lots of dinosaurs upstairs still.


I would like to see Frost stay full time in 20-21 but with a healthy lineup + Raffl at 13 possibly, it doesn’t seem like the front office sees a rush to bring Frosty in right away maybe towards to end of the 20-21 season.

Yeah I wasn't disagreeing. They are quite likely to do it unless Frost or injury forces their hand.

 

[Juicy Pop]

It's odd. We went from the 2017 draft thinking that we're playing with house money to literally praying that the kid can even play another game.

 

[renberg]

A Third line of JVR-Frost-Sandin might work. Frost can pass the puck and with two guys who can dig in around the net and cash in on rebounds. Putting JVR with two line mates that can skate covers his lack of speed.
Thompson offers nothing to this club and only gets in the way of young players progressing. He’s slow, has no shot or passing ability. After his FO ability, there not much left in his tool box. There are other options at 4C with better overall skills than him.

 

[TB87]

People want Thompson back? Who hurt you?

 

[deadhead]

Yeah I wasn't disagreeing. They are quite likely to do it unless Frost or injury forces their hand.

It's not the worst thing in the world if they're so deep they can't fit Frost into the top 9.
Though that will only happen if they retain both JVR and Laughton, and Patrick is healthy.
In which case, Frost? Who?

G - Couts - Voracek
Lindblom - Hayes - Farabee
JVR - Patrick - TK
Raffl - Laughton - NAK/Sandin

If that's what you're rolling out, why would anyone complain if Frost started the season in the AHL (if there is an AHL) or as the leader of the Black Aces.

We're rooting for the Flyers or for the Frosties?

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's not the worst thing in the world if they're so deep they can't fit Frost into the top 9.
Though that will only happen if they retain both JVR and Laughton, and Patrick is healthy.
In which case, Frost? Who?

G - Couts - Voracek
Lindblom - Hayes - Farabee
JVR - Patrick - TK
Raffl - Laughton - NAK/Sandin

If that's what you're rolling out, why would anyone complain if Frost started the season in the AHL (if there is an AHL) or as the leader of the Black Aces.

We're rooting for the Flyers or for the Frosties?

I doubt depth is the deciding factor. They didn't have the depth in the playoffs and still refused to use him. They just still think like it's the 1980s.

We are rooting for the Flyers, hence why we want to see them ice and develop their best talent instead of sitting it behind guys with less than no future.

 

[deadhead]

I doubt depth is the deciding factor. They didn't have the depth in the playoffs and still refused to use him. They just still think like it's the 1980s.

We are rooting for the Flyers, hence why we want to see them ice and develop their best talent instead of sitting it behind guys with less than no future.

They refused to use Frost in the playoffs b/c he didn't impress AV as being NHL ready in his cameo, where he was highly sheltered (O-zone starts, home/away splits). At 20 years old, he was physically underdeveloped and still working on his game, he wasn't the dominant AHL player you'd expect from an elite prospect.

You don't develop prospects in the playoffs.

A year is a long time in the development of a young prospect.
If a young prospect like Frost isn't improving by leaps and bounds from age 18-22 or so, he's probably a flop.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They refused to use Frost in the playoffs b/c he didn't impress AV as being NHL ready in his cameo, where he was highly sheltered (O-zone starts, home/away splits). At 20 years old, he was physically underdeveloped and still working on his game, he wasn't the dominant AHL player you'd expect from an elite prospect.

You don't develop prospects in the playoffs.

A year is a long time in the development of a young prospect.
If a young prospect like Frost isn't improving by leaps and bounds from age 18-22 or so, he's probably a flop.

He didn't impress AV because AV is a loser who thinks Thompson is an NHL quality player and that Ghost isn't even worth playing while Hogg is. He's a guy who gave Tanner Glass top line time for seasons.

His evaluations are not infallible or worth pointing out as some definitive proof. Let's not forget the obvious miss on picking Stewart over NAK.

 

[deadhead]

He's a guy who gave Tanner Glass top line time for seasons.

His evaluations are not infallible or worth pointing out as some definitive proof. Let's not forget the obvious miss on picking Stewart over NAK.

He didn't pick Stewart over NAK, it was Bunnaman and Twarynski over NAK.
Six rookie forwards played more than Stewart.

Here's Tanner Glass's actual even strength TOI:
2014-15: 66 games, 9:11 a night, 13th on the team (and behind two forwards with 18 and 11 game cameos as well)
2015-16: 57 games, 9:46 a night, 12th on the team (excluding Staal, injured, & Etem played more in his 19 games)
2016-17: 11 games, 10:36 a night

 

[Beef Invictus]

He didn't pick Stewart over NAK, it was Bunnaman and Twarynski over NAK.
Six rookie forwards played more than Stewart.

Here's Tanner Glass's actual even strength TOI:
2014-15: 66 games, 9:11 a night, 13th on the team (and behind two forwards with 18 and 11 game cameos as well)
2015-16: 57 games, 9:46 a night, 12th on the team (excluding Stall, injured, & Etem played more in his 19 games)
2016-17: 11 games, 10:36 a night

The fact that he thought Stewart should have a spot over ANY of them proves my point.

Did you remember to check out Glass' usage? Because that was the crux of the problem. He wasn't remotely sheltered in his time. He was a weakness that was exposed to the max.

 

[deadhead]

Yes, it devastated the Rangers.

When you look at the alternative for those 9 minutes a night, meh
2014-15: Glass xGF 42.14%, Duclair (19) 45.61%, Sheppard 36.77%
2015-16: Glass xGF 43.27%, Etem 46.11%, Stoll 40.37%, Paile 35.74%

When you get down to the 13-14th forwards, it's below replacement players or kids not ready for prime time.

As usual, the nattering nabobs of negativity are "much ado about nothing."

 

[Starat327]

Still defending the Stewart signing. Lol

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Yes, it devastated the Rangers.

When you look at the alternative for those 9 minutes a night, meh
2014-15: Glass xGF 42.14%, Duclair (19) 45.61%, Sheppard 36.77%
2015-16: Glass xGF 43.27%, Etem 46.11%, Stoll 40.37%, Paile 35.74%

When you get down to the 13-14th forwards, it's below replacement players or kids not ready for prime time.

As usual, the nattering nabobs of negativity are "much ado about nothing."

It was heavily rumored at the time that Vigneault personally lobbied for the Rangers to sign Glass as a UFA, which cost 3 years at well over minimum. They could have, you know, signed someone who was an NHL quality player.

But there’s so much more to his tenure that was worse than Glass, like the time he decided Nick Holden should be a top pair guy next to McDonagh for a season.

Just be happy that he did a generally fine job in the regular season this year. You can point to that without resorting to trying to spit-shine his mistakes.

 

[Deadpool8812]

AV = intelligence

 

[The Madrigal]

It really sucks that we are stuck with AV. Four Jack Adams nominations including 2nd this year and a win 2007. Made it to the SCF's with two different teams. Multiple Presidents trophies. Vancouver's all time winningest coach. Fletcher should fire him immediately.

 

[Chinatown88]

 

[deadhead]

It was heavily rumored at the time that Vigneault personally lobbied for the Rangers to sign Glass as a UFA, which cost 3 years at well over minimum. They could have, you know, signed someone who was an NHL quality player.

But there’s so much more to his tenure that was worse than Glass, like the time he decided Nick Holden should be a top pair guy next to McDonagh for a season.

Just be happy that he did a generally fine job in the regular season this year. You can point to that without resorting to trying to spit-shine his mistakes.

3yr at $1.35M is excessive, but Trotz has the same love for these kinds of players, most HCs like one or two "glass eating" veterans at the bottom of the roster, maybe it makes 'em feel like real hockey men?

Have to put things into context, the 2016-17 Rangers weren't exactly loaded with first pair defensemen.
The other four defensemen were Skjei (22), Staal (30), Girardi (32) and Klein (32).
In the playoffs, Holden was demoted, but frankly you could throw all four (excluding Klein) in a hat that season.
Klein was so bad they traded a 2nd and 3rd for Brendan Smith at the TDL to replace him.

 

[Chinatown88]

Still defending the Stewart signing. Lol

 

[tucson83]

It really sucks that we are stuck with AV. Four Jack Adams nominations including 2nd this year and a win 2007. Made it to the SCF's with two different teams. Multiple Presidents trophies. Vancouver's all time winningest coach. Fletcher should fire him immediately.

this is all because they wanted q but q couldnt get florida past the first round. we are actually further than florida we just need a few pieces and we are there.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

3yr at $1.35M is excessive, but Trotz has the same love for these kinds of players, most HCs like one or two "glass eating" veterans at the bottom of the roster, maybe it makes 'em feel like real hockey men?

Have to put things into context, the 2016-17 Rangers weren't exactly loaded with first pair defensemen.
The other four defensemen were Skjei (22), Staal (30), Girardi (32) and Klein (32).
In the playoffs, Holden was demoted, but frankly you could throw all four (excluding Klein) in a hat that season.
Klein was so bad they traded a 2nd and 3rd for Brendan Smith at the TDL to replace him.

In 2016-17, Holden was mostly with Staal. It was 2017-18 where he played mainly with McDonagh.

If you just look at the Rangers’ overall TOI for 17-18, it will look a little weird because Holden was traded at the deadline but he did play the majority of the season with McDonagh on the top pair. The last handful of games before the deadline, Holden was with DeAngelo instead.

 

[deadhead]

In 2016-17, Holden was mostly with Staal. It was 2017-18 where he played mainly with McDonagh.

If you just look at the Rangers’ overall TOI for 17-18, it will look a little weird because Holden was traded at the deadline but he did play the majority of the season with McDonagh on the top pair. The last handful of games before the deadline, Holden was with DeAngelo instead.

ES TOI 2017-18
McDonagh (18:37), Skjei (18:17), Shattenkirk (17:00), Holden (16:49), Smith (15:41), Staal (15:00)
Pionk came up from the AHL and replaced Holden (18:47). DeAngelo was also brought up.
Skjei isn't really a top 4 D-man and Shattenkirk had the worse season of his career.
Again, a group of mediocrities, Holden played about as badly as everyone else.