More lies. Par for the course. I have a game to watch.
2019/20 Roster Thread XXX - AKA the Ghost Thread
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Since it was a topic of conversation today and has been brought up previously too, lets look at the facts...
Giroux, this year (51 games so far) vs his previous two seasons...
At 5v5 (since we know what the PP problem is)...
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[/TBODY]And yet...
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[/TBODY]Again, roughly the same, even without Couturier.
Giroux, this year (51 games so far) vs his previous two seasons...
At 5v5 (since we know what the PP problem is)...
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Year
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CF/60
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2019-2020
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62.06
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2018-2019
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63.81
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2017-2018
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59.03
| Year | xGF/60 |
| 2019-2020 | 2.50 |
| 2018-2019 | 2.36 |
| 2017-2018 | 2.52 |
| Year | HDCF/60 |
| 2019-2020 | 11.13 |
| 2018-2019 | 10.43 |
| 2017-2018 | 11.08 |
Year
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First assists/60
2019-2020
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0.17
2018-2019
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1.12
2017-2018
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0.84
That's not a typo... it's a drastic change and it's obviously not because he suddenly forgot how to pass. And like @Appleyard said, when a player declines, you'd expect to see goal scoring go first, especially when you're the type of player Giroux is.
These stats match the eye test, he's the same player as before but just has awful luck this year. I'm not seeing a decline, in the stats or on the ice. He's not slower, dumber, less skilled, he's not worse defensively, he's not worse offensively...
The process is good, the results are not. Sometimes bad luck really is the answer.
For some added context, since linemates and usage matter A LOT... consider the quality of his linemates, like how he's had significantly less time with Couturier at 5v5 than previous years.
Time with Couturier at 5v5...
2019-2020: 237:30 out of 711:48 (roughly 33%)
2018-2019: 683:22 out of 1230:48 (roughly 55%)
2017-2018: 1100:25 out of 1218:18 (roughly 90%)
If he were declining you'd certainly expect to see a drop with his stats, especially if he's spending less time with Couturier. Instead Giroux's performed at the same level, even without him. Once again, the difference is teammates not finishing the chances he creates.
As for defense...
These stats match the eye test, he's the same player as before but just has awful luck this year. I'm not seeing a decline, in the stats or on the ice. He's not slower, dumber, less skilled, he's not worse defensively, he's not worse offensively...
The process is good, the results are not. Sometimes bad luck really is the answer.
For some added context, since linemates and usage matter A LOT... consider the quality of his linemates, like how he's had significantly less time with Couturier at 5v5 than previous years.
Time with Couturier at 5v5...
2019-2020: 237:30 out of 711:48 (roughly 33%)
2018-2019: 683:22 out of 1230:48 (roughly 55%)
2017-2018: 1100:25 out of 1218:18 (roughly 90%)
If he were declining you'd certainly expect to see a drop with his stats, especially if he's spending less time with Couturier. Instead Giroux's performed at the same level, even without him. Once again, the difference is teammates not finishing the chances he creates.
As for defense...
Year
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CA/60
2019-2020
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53.54
2018-2019
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58.69
2017-2018
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52.53
| Year | xGA/60 |
| 2019-2020 | 2.25 |
| 2018-2019 | 2.39 |
| 2017-2018 | 2.14 |
Year
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HDCA/60
2019-2020
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10.54
2018-2019
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11.16
2017-2018
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9.65
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All of this means nothing to me. What's his leadership/60, because this team hasnt gonna playoff round in nearly a decade and its 100% because we have a poor captain and no heart.
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So you're saying he's a 1 LW with Couts, but can't finish a play at center?
Giroux is being carried by JVR and TK at center, who are clearly driving that line. If only JVR knew how to score goals . . .
He belongs back with Couts at LW, but that will have to wait for Frost to grow up.
Frost was clearly struggling (as I showed) before he was sent down, it wasn't on a whim, he would have been eaten alive in a game like last night whereas Bunnaman more than held his own and his line should have had more minutes.
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thing is, prospect obbessed fans think that college hockey is the same as the nhl. they are completely delusional, all about their ego, and very closed minded all because they dont want the management to pay money to get proven talent, they want the management to pay $800,000 for every player.
it's all about the money, that's why they are bitter, they want talent to be cheap and it's never going to be that way.
I don't know if Giroux is permanently on the decline now. I just know he's not having a very good season to date.
It's simply ridiculous to argue that management is to blame for the Flyers' need to add a bottom-six center. Especially because most of the people making this argument were AGAINST signing Hayes, which is the only thing that has kept their center depth afloat.
I mean, simply compare the center lineup management created for this season, vs. what those blaming management would have:
Management: Couturier, Giroux, Hayes, ?
Management Blamers: Couturier, Giroux, Frost, ?
Frost isn't remotely close to being the two-way impact center in the NHL that Hayes is right now. Not in the same stratosphere.
And then if you play Giroux at his better LW position, you've got:
Management: Couturier, Hayes, ?, ?
Management Blamers: Couturier, Frost, ?, ?
It's clear this is really all about a hard-core attachment to Morgan Frost: A lust to see him in the lineup at all costs, and a complete overrating of what he's capable of performing in the NHL as two-way center as a skinny, 20-year-old, rookie professional.
I've given tons of examples of how extremely few 20 y/o rookies step into the NHL at center straight from junior to be impact players and producers. Hell, Nolan Patrick only had 31 points in 72 NHL games at 20, and it was his 2ND NHL season, and he's much bigger and stronger, and better two-ways, and a more highly rated prospect.
So, as to your points, I agree many do seem to think that if you dominate against kids in junior it means you can step right into the NHL and make an immediate two-way impact against the best men in the world. And I also agree that fans get overly picky about "overpaying," whereby they'd rather leave a huge hole on the team instead of spending a little bit of extra money to make sure you fill it with a player who is still only 27.
Unfortunately there’s nothing more he can do individually. The chances are there, he can’t make teammates finish.
The low point total sucks but his quality of play is very encouraging. At some point the luck has to turn.
The low point total sucks but his quality of play is very encouraging. At some point the luck has to turn.
I mentioned in our private convo how I have a friend who is a die-hard Hagg loverboy. He's turning into a G hater now. He is at least aware G has a NMC thus he's not one of those mouthbreathers who demands for him to be traded, but he's still clamoring on and on to me about how pathetic Giroux's on-ice play has been and pointing to lack of points as his main argument. Bro, do you watch the games?! I sort of just go numb and take it from him because it's too much to handle and attempting to shed the light on him is an exercise in futility - the guy is more stubborn than anyone in the entire world. Love the guy and would take a bullet for him, but he sucks total ass as a Flyers fan.
So, as for the bolded - I sure f***ing hope so but Therrien gonna Therrien.
There has been some smoke around obtaining Jeff Carter for over a month. A Ghost for Carter trade makes sense. For one thing, financially the numbers work. Ghost would be welcome in LAK where defensive help is required and he is young enough to be productive there for a while. LAK get rid of a contract. For the Flyers, Carter would go to center and push Giroux over to wing where he's better suited these days. As for how the rest of the forward lineup would look, that would be AV's discretion. Carter for Ghost also opens the slot for Friedman to come back up. He played well when he was here in January.
If the Flyers are going to make a move, now is the time to do it. For one thing, they would have the player that they want/need longer. Last night on the NHL channel, Barry Melrose pointed this out and cited that Rutherford was a GM who struck early rather than being held up later on. It makes sense. The TDL is a seller's market. Why get trapped into a bidding war if your club is a buyer? The closer that it gets to the TDL, the goofier prices become. Ex.- a #1 for Pageau; that's silly. Someone suggested that Ottawa wants even more than that which is sillier yet.
If the Flyers are going to make a move, now is the time to do it. For one thing, they would have the player that they want/need longer. Last night on the NHL channel, Barry Melrose pointed this out and cited that Rutherford was a GM who struck early rather than being held up later on. It makes sense. The TDL is a seller's market. Why get trapped into a bidding war if your club is a buyer? The closer that it gets to the TDL, the goofier prices become. Ex.- a #1 for Pageau; that's silly. Someone suggested that Ottawa wants even more than that which is sillier yet.
G's point totals are partially puck luck, but he's also not as dynamic as he was two years ago, heck, he just turned 32, at this point you just hope for 3 more years of solid play as a veteran winger.
Watching him at center, he's nothing close to the player he was five years ago. Age happens to all of us.
Now that's just reality, G is still a solid top 6 forward and worth his paycheck. But not the franchise player he was in his 20s before he was injured. And it's not fair to put those kind of expectations on him.
Nor do the Flyers need that from him, they have young players on the verge of picking up that slack.
Brink is going to be a star, if Allison's recent run means he's finally back he could be the PF this team needs, Frost will eventually be a top six center, Farabee is going to be a stud, and of course, TK (22), Couts (27), Hayes (27) have a few years left in them.
Watching him at center, he's nothing close to the player he was five years ago. Age happens to all of us.
Now that's just reality, G is still a solid top 6 forward and worth his paycheck. But not the franchise player he was in his 20s before he was injured. And it's not fair to put those kind of expectations on him.
Nor do the Flyers need that from him, they have young players on the verge of picking up that slack.
Brink is going to be a star, if Allison's recent run means he's finally back he could be the PF this team needs, Frost will eventually be a top six center, Farabee is going to be a stud, and of course, TK (22), Couts (27), Hayes (27) have a few years left in them.
No. Carter is old as f***.
Also, trading Ghost doesn't open up a spot for Friedman. He is a RD and we would still have Niskanen, Myers, Braun on the right. Friedman's best chance at sticking is next season since Braun's contract is up.
Just say no to Carter, especially Ghost for Carter.
Carter has bounced back this season, but playing 13:38 (2nd line minutes) he is on pace for 17 goals and 27 ES points.
The Kings aren't good but look at his Rel numbers:
CFrel -2.38, xGFrel -0.98, HDCFrel -2.36.
In other words, on a bad team he's still below average.
He also has a $5.27M cap hit the next two seasons.
Yet another person who has a history of wildly misevaluating the player and just wants to dump him. That trade would be horrific.
The Ghost hate is real.
The Ghost hate is real.
IF Ghost is traded the return needs to be younger player and we win the trade.
Ghost for Ehlers
Ghost for Kapanen , 1st
You have to think Oskar won’t be back , so they will be looking to replace him in top 6.
Ghost for Carter would be horrible
Ghost for Ehlers
Ghost for Kapanen , 1st
You have to think Oskar won’t be back , so they will be looking to replace him in top 6.
Ghost for Carter would be horrible
You’re not getting a 1st with Kapanen. Leafs don’t even have a 1 this year.
this makes me smile for many reasons.
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