2019/20 Roster Thread XXX - AKA the Ghost Thread

[dragonoffrost]

Hart the goalie who played like half a season and is now developing in the NHL?

And you still have nothing to say that Frost being in the AHL helps him learn the lifestyle/being a pro/whatever better then being in the NHL.

What if he comes up and lives with one of the vets and watches how they take care of themselves as an NHL pro every day?

Again the AHL isn't a magic bullet. Players going there doesn't mean automatic development. Also players can develop in the NHL as we have seen with tons of our roster over the last 3+ years.

nm

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I do like how they want to add a 4c on this team because it is a clear weak spot but that they don't feel the need to add one to get into the playoffs. That tells me right there that they don't plan on overpaying for one in a trade.

They should keep Frost as an option in the playoffs as a 4c, but only in the playoffs to be on the 4th line. Couts/Hayes/Giroux/Frost down the middle come playoff time would be a nice advantage to have over other teams.

I like what I read in that article. They’ve identified 4C “or better” as their biggest need, which I agree with.

Which means they’re probably gunning for a 3C, but if nothing makes sense they have 4C targets identified as well.

They had a huge collaborative front office meeting where they went over all of their potential options, also getting input from their data analytics staff.

Sounds like a very organized & prepared management heading into the trade deadline.

 

[Rebels57]

Im definitely of the mind that we should not add a big ticket pending UFA.

A more minor deal could work out. Remember when Pitt traded Perron for Hagelin then won the Cup? Thats the type of low-cost gamble you take.

 

[Appleyard]

girgenson and jankowski are 2 good options as 4th line center.

clearly they don't see frost as option at this point.

Girgensons does not play C... Larsson does.

Tbh Jankowski is an interesting option. Not sure Calgary want to sell low though, when they are a playoff team.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'm always baffled by the case of "he needs development". Take a look at a comparable - Robert Thomas of the Blues. guy played 70 games for them last season, mostly in a 3rd line W or 4th line C role, pots 30 points, and while not a 'key' to the Blues success, there were plays i remember him making that were important plays throughout the game. He's currently 20, and was taken 7 spots before Morgan Frost. He didnt have to be a key contributor on the NHL team to be a contributor to a stanley cup winning team.

None of us can speak to whether he (or the blues) would have been better off with him on the team vs of of it and spending last year in the AHL. But I'd like to think its not outlandish to think that he learned a lot more playing smaller minutes against real competition than he would have playing in the AHL.

Here's a hot take for you. The AHL is the last place I want to send a premium prospect. The quality of hockey and coaching is terrible. Injury risk is much higher than overseas. I'd rather have the player develop than worry about getting him "in house."

I know there are CBA issues with this statement, but I'm speaking philosophically only.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Scott talking is dumb. Why announce to the world that we want a #4C and possibly more? It does no good to let everyone know that. Awful negotiation tactic.

You think GMs don’t make other GMs aware of what they’re looking for? This isn’t the draft where you keep things completely secret. I guarantee every team in the league knows what the Flyers are interested in.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Here's a hot take for you. The AHL is the last place I want to send a premium prospect. The quality of hockey and coaching is terrible. Injury risk is much higher than overseas. I'd rather have the player develop than worry about getting him "in house."

I know there are CBA issues with this statement, but I'm speaking philosophically only.

This is where I am too at this point. And I'm not gonna compromise on that until they overhaul the coaching down there at minimum.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

I have never said I was trading for Pageau. Actually I am staying away from him. I am just saying the idea he doesn't play defense isn't true and that his offense this year isn't where he historically is.

What I did say is that if this team is making a deal it's for a 4c and that Frost is better served with ONE YEAR in the AHL. Now it's being twisted into trading for Pageau and keeping Frost in the AHL for many years. And people wonder why I get aggrevated....(not that you are saying I've said all of this)

Whoooops I thought you had but I was attributing another posters statement to you. My bad.

I still think Frost spending any more time in the AHL is a waste of a valuable asset that could both contribute more to the top 9 then Raffl or Laughton and still develop.

Edit - I don't mean Paguea can't play defence. In saying there is no way a human being isn't going to let their defensive responsibilities lapse a little in the season before you sign the defining contract of your life when you play in a dumpster fire team. As in part of the reason he is scoring more is he is taking risk he normally wouldn't and he doesn't have the skill set of a guy that can get 55 points while not cheating towards offense.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Here's a hot take for you. The AHL is the last place I want to send a premium prospect. The quality of hockey and coaching is terrible. Injury risk is much higher than overseas. I'd rather have the player develop than worry about getting him "in house."

I know there are CBA issues with this statement, but I'm speaking philosophically only.

I'd be fine with that also. But as you said CBA doesn't make it doable.

 

[Starat327]

Here's a hot take for you. The AHL is the last place I want to send a premium prospect. The quality of hockey and coaching is terrible. Injury risk is much higher than overseas. I'd rather have the player develop than worry about getting him "in house."

I know there are CBA issues with this statement, but I'm speaking philosophically only.

Honestly, I don't even think it's that hot of a take. I think there are some organizations who the the AHL right - Toronto, up until recently, being one of them. Chicago did a phenomenal job. The lightning have done well at this. I think its just a gaping flaw in the Flyers organization that they have an AHL team that continues to parade out local players who are great AHL players but cant make the NHL just in an attempt to win games. Id love for the Phantoms to win the AHL. I was exceited when they went into the playoffs 2 years ago and made a deep run. But you know what I'd like more? For the Rubstovs, Naks, Vorobyevs of the world to be able to go there, get used to NA ice (if they arent already), learn the speed and tempo of playing with men, and learn basics for the system.

The phantoms can finish last in the league every year for all i care, if theyre able to give me just one dilligent roster player every off season.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Whoooops I thought you had but I was attributing another posters statement to you. My bad.

I still think Frost spending any more time in the AHL is a waste of a valuable asset that could both contribute more to the top 9 then Raffl or Laughton and still develop.

I get the feeling they'd do it if something wasn't not quite right somewhere with the talent he's shown. So is it something small on the ice or is it something not on the ice. We don't spend days with these kids. So if it is something off ice we wouldn't really know what it is unless it became Ho-Sang level of off ice drama.

 

[TB87]

Right Sid's friend?

This is very much going to be a thing now eh? I welcome this absurdity

 

[Chinatown88]

This is very much going to be a thing now eh? I welcome this absurdity

It has been written into HF Flyers lore. So it is now the truth.

 

[rinaldo]

Girgensons does not play C... Larsson does.

Tbh Jankowski is an interesting option. Not sure Calgary want to sell low though, when they are a playoff team.

girgenson can play center.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

This is very much going to be a thing now eh? I welcome this absurdity

I hope you do Trash Birds 87

 

[dragonoffrost]

Honestly, I don't even think it's that hot of a take. I think there are some organizations who the the AHL right - Toronto, up until recently, being one of them. Chicago did a phenomenal job. The lightning have done well at this. I think its just a gaping flaw in the Flyers organization that they have an AHL team that continues to parade out local players who are great AHL players but cant make the NHL just in an attempt to win games. Id love for the Phantoms to win the AHL. I was exceited when they went into the playoffs 2 years ago and made a deep run. But you know what I'd like more? For the Rubstovs, Naks, Vorobyevs of the world to be able to go there, get used to NA ice (if they arent already), learn the speed and tempo of playing with men, and learn basics for the system.

The phantoms can finish last in the league every year for all i care, if theyre able to give me just one dilligent roster player every off season.

Problem there is they are a business and have to make money also. I hear a lot of griping about the Sharks and what they just did by adding a small 4200 seat arena in San Jose for their AHL team. The only way I see that working is if they are planning on the player/team staff salaries being totally fronted by the money from the Sharks NHL revenues and that the arena during game nights is packed and selling tons of concessions to support the game day operations stuff. But then that puts a strain on the cash incoming from the Sharks and probably also isn't allowed totally by the NHL bargaining due to revenue sharing.

 

[Tripod]

This is very much going to be a thing now eh? I welcome this absurdity

I can't read your posts without my mind going there.

I hope is passes in time.

passes as well as Sid

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Fortunately the Flyers are up against the cap & Ottawa doesn’t retain salary/cap so that should save the Flyers from foolishly paying the rumored price for Pageau.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'd be fine with that also. But as you said CBA doesn't make it doable.

All I know is that if someone approaches a 21 year old and they prefer to spend a year in Allentown over one in Malmö, I don't want that person in my org anyway.

 

[dragonoffrost]

All I know is that if someone approaches a 21 year old and they prefer to spend a year in Allentown over one in Malmö, I don't want that person in my org anyway.

I don't want to spend time in Allentown and I got family in that area.

 

[flyersnorth]

I do like how they want to add a 4c on this team because it is a clear weak spot but that they don't feel the need to add one to get into the playoffs. That tells me right there that they don't plan on overpaying for one in a trade.

They should keep Frost as an option in the playoffs as a 4c, but only in the playoffs to be on the 4th line. Couts/Hayes/Giroux/Frost down the middle come playoff time would be a nice advantage to have over other teams.

Targeting a "4C" also tells me Ghost isn't being moved.

Probably a mid-round pick or a B-level prospect. Potentially a roster player if salaries need to be cleared and balanced out.

The next 12 games will give Fletch a much better indication on what makes sense. The Flyers could be anywhere from top 3 in the Metro to seriously looking at a lottery pick.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Targeting a "4C" also tells me Ghost isn't being moved.

Probably a mid-round pick or a B-level prospect. Potentially a roster player if salaries need to be cleared and balanced out.

The next 12 games will give Fletch a much better indication on what makes sense. The Flyers could be anywhere from top 3 in the Metro to seriously looking at a lottery pick.

This could be said about a lot of teams in the NHL. There are probably only 7 teams right now that are definite sellers.

 

[Appleyard]

girgenson can play center.

He can... but he has not for like 3 years.

Larsson is his centre. Not as good offensively but probably better defensively right now. Neither are amazing options... but Larsson has certainly been better the last 2 seasons.

 

[flyersnorth]

Hart the goalie who played like half a season and is now developing in the NHL?

And you still have nothing to say that Frost being in the AHL helps him learn the lifestyle/being a pro/whatever better then being in the NHL.

What if he comes up and lives with one of the vets and watches how they take care of themselves as an NHL pro every day?

Again the AHL isn't a magic bullet. Players going there doesn't mean automatic development. Also players can develop in the NHL as we have seen with tons of our roster over the last 3+ years.

To be fair, Fletch simply ran out of goalie options last year, and I would bet my house that if we had two (and not EIGHT) stable goalies on the team, Hart wouldn't have sniffed the NHL. It's not to say he wouldn't have done well, because we now have hindsight to say he did more than well - he was excellent.

But they wouldn't have felt the need to rush him up.

It's not an exact science.

I'd love to have Frost up here, and it makes sense to me. But whatever, it's not my call, and I just need to be patient lol.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

If the solutions are Thompson & Lewis you’re better off doing nothing especially if you’re paying like a third round pick for something like that.