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2019/20 Roster Thread XXIX

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Problem is I doubt Ghost will ever approach 60 points again.

The assumption that a peak season is a "norm" is a stretch, players often have one peak year that's an anomaly, and it's looking like 2017-18 will be that for Ghost. Some of this may be that 2017-18 was a fluke, some may be that injuries have sapped some of his skills (his shot looks weaker).

A more reasonable upside is 40-50 points in a good year, 20-25 ES, and 25 or so on a good PP1 unit.
And as we've seen the past two seasons, the downside is well below that.
 
If you're going to pull out contract comparables for any player, aligning UFA vs RFA years bought out needs to be included or you're not making an apples to apples comparison.

I don't care about the Ghost thing. This is a general statement.

bobbythebrain said:
So Jake Gardiner is a " steal" for Carolina also?
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I would call that a good bet that to this point hasn't worked. How much separation there is between the two issues is tough to answer as an outsider on a guy with medical issues.
 
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Beef Invictus said:
I havent paid any attention to him or Carolina this year. I couldn't say. Can he play good defense as well?
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Sure. He did for TO for years(but was prone to timely brainfarts)

However, he's been plastered to the 3rd pair and 2nd pp unit in Car, and hasn't moved the needle much for them.

Now, if you're a Gardiner fan, you can cry usage all you want, but Car fans aren't to happy paying a 3rd liner 4mil atm
 
Ted Brown said:
(20): Connor Clifton vs Hagg
View attachment 312307


(21): Joshua Brown vs Hagg
View attachment 312309


(22): Brad Hunt vs Hagg
View attachment 312311


(23): Brenden Dillon vs Hagg
View attachment 312313


(24): Anthony Bitetto vs Hagg
View attachment 312315


(25): Nick Holden vs Hagg
View attachment 312317


(26): Dan Hamhuis vs Hagg
View attachment 312319


(27): Vince Dunn vs Hagg
View attachment 312321


(28): Ghost vs Hagg
View attachment 312323




*Only Keith Yandle and Anthony Bitetto have worse individual shot suppression impact at 5v5 than Hagg in this decent sample of players*

*Hagg has the worst gross (I.e. overall) individual shot generation and shot suppression impact among his peers who play similar minutes vs very similar competition*


“What do you expect, he’s a 7th defenseman” isn’t really a valid POV when examining all of this info I just shared*

*I’d take most any other defenseman in this group over Hagg*


*Hagg is terrible suppressor/generator of shot attempts, still is bad at that, and has been bad in the past at this*


*Fin*
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This post just gave me an acid flashback. Far out and thanks!
 
bobbythebrain said:
Sure. He did for TO for years(but was prone to timely brainfarts)

However, he's been plastered to the 3rd pair and 2nd pp unit in Car, and hasn't moved the needle much for them.

Now, if you're a Gardiner fan, you can cry usage all you want, but Car fans aren't to happy paying a 3rd liner 4mil atm
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If he provides offense, and is good at defense, then yes he is on a good contract and those Carolina fans are wrong.

Having an all-around competent dman for 4 million dollars is great. It doesn't matter where he plays. Do you know how much guys like that pull down on the open market?
 
Working on a new list for the Top 10 thread: Best all time playoff performers (career) in Flyers history. This is a tough one, the first few spots were pretty easy but then it gets hard. Obviously, this list will likely end up heavy on players from the Bullies and Keenan eras due to their sustained success in the playoffs.

Should be up a little later today.
 
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Beef Invictus said:
If he provides offense, and is good at defense, then yes he is on a good contract and those Carolina fans are wrong.

Having an all-around competent dman for 4 million dollars is great. It doesn't matter where he plays. Do you know how much guys like that pull down on the open market?
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100% disagree. It's only a good contract if you are maximizing his talents. Playing him on a bottom pair role while leaving a bigger hole elsewhere is more important

This team would be better off allocating 5mil(quality player) in cap to fill the 3rd line C position going into the post season than allocating the cap towards Ghost as he's currently being used
 
bobbythebrain said:
100% disagree. It's only a good contract if you are maximizing his talents. Playing him on a bottom pair role while leaving a bigger hole elsewhere is more important

This team would be better off allocating 5mil(quality player) in cap to fill the 3rd line C position going into the post season than allocating the cap towards Ghost as he's currently being used
Click to expand...

Now you've opened a hole on defense. How is that better? We have a lot of inexperience back there. Removing a consistently solid defender is unwise.

It is not only a good contract if you are maximizing his talents. He's being paid in the 4 million dollar range, as a competent defenseman, instead of the 7 million dollar range; your logic would make sense in the latter case, but not in the former.
 
Beef Invictus said:
Now you've opened a hole on defense. How is that better? We have a lot of inexperience back there. Removing a consistently solid defender is unwise.

It is not only a good contract if you are maximizing his talents. He's being paid in the 4 million dollar range, as a competent defenseman, instead of the 7 million dollar range; your logic would make sense in the latter case, but not in the former.
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Again, disagree. Teams that stack their defense don't usually do better than teams that stack their offense imo
 
bobbythebrain said:
Again, disagree. Teams that stack their defense don't usually do better than teams that stack their offense imo
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The fun thing about having players on contracts like Ghost's is that the savings allow you to do both. That would make winning much easier.

Do you think teams with unstable defenses do very well? Do we as Flyers fans already forget the first part of the last decade?
 
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How many players from 2013 2nd rounder draft made to NHL? 5? less?
I think Flyers did well there.
 
Beef Invictus said:
Apparently the solution isn't fixing his usage, it's making the defense more unstable in exchange for a less cap-efficient player.
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Admitting that usage is the problem is admitting that AV is screwing up, which is what they simply won't say.

This is exactly what we saw with Hakstol, except now there's a handful of new deadheads.
 
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I don't think any NHL teams are reasonably sure if it's better to stack your money on Defensemen or Forwards. Forwards as a unit have more impact, but that's because there more of them on the ice. On a player by player basis, I doubt they're different enough to enter into the discussion because market inefficiencies and talent shortages are so much bigger factors that you probably never get that granular.

The league as a whole is assuredly worse at evaluating Defensemen than Forwards, which makes it even more complex of an issue to solve.

Personally, I'd be open to trading anyone that's not Couturier, but I need to know what's coming back. If you start from "I want to trade away X," you're usually going to end up on the wrong end. Shakeup trades are for the Chiarellis of the world.
 
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JojoTheWhale said:
I don't think any NHL teams are reasonably sure if it's better to stack your money on Defensemen or Forwards. Forwards as a unit have more impact, but that's because there more of them on the ice. On a player by player basis, I doubt they're different enough to enter into the discussion because market inefficiencies and talent shortages are so much bigger factors that you probably never get that granular.

The league as a whole is assuredly worse at evaluating Defensemen than Forwards, which makes it even more complex of an issue to solve.

Personally, I'd be open to trading anyone that's not Couturier, but I need to know what's coming back. If you start from "I want to trade away X," you're usually going to end up on the wrong end. Shakeup trades are for the Chiarellis of the world.
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I just see the trend has worked out better for teams that stacked their offense over teams who stacked their D, especially the 3rd line C position

IMO, even if AV decided to maximize Ghost going forward, this team still doesn't perform as well if they traded him for a player like Pageau

Now before this gets completely and purposely misrepresented in saying I'm suggesting to trade Ghost for Pageau, I'm not, but I suspect it will

What I'm saying is currently the team has performed pretty well with Ghost on the bottom pair and even outta the line-up... so adding a quality/experienced 3rd line C would have more impact imo
 
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