2019/20 Roster Thread XXIX

[Starat327]

Also, the idea that stacking forwards is more important than D is just absolitely silly. Columbus, with their stacked D toppled the surging forwards in Tampa. Likewise the Canes against the Capitals. Toronto has one of the most stacked forward groups in the league, but cant get past the first round. Meanwhile, Nashville has probably had the best top 6D in the league for a while, and they consistently make and generally do well in the playoffs, with their only forward of note being Forsberg and whatevers left of Ryan Johansen.

You need balance, but just looking back over the past few years, teams who arent chock full of Generational forwards who rely on said stacked forward groups tend to not do so well.

 

[TCTC]

There’s simply no reason to deal him when his value is at its absolute lowest. He might or might not turn into something, but id rather take my chances on him than take a 6th for him.

I think at this point it's more about his future than getting something for him in a trade. If trading him to another team gives him a realistic chance to make it to the NHL, then you do it. It's the right thing to do.
If they believe there's still a chance for him on the Flyers, then they'll probably keep him.

 

[Rebels57]

At this point, the Ghost talk should be banned. It's exhausting to go thru and there is nothing new that would make either "side" will budge on how they view things.

At this point, let's just wait and see if he is going to be ready to play Jan 31st.

Id appreciate if it was at least moved to its own thread.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Id appreciate if it was at least moved to its own thread.

Worst part of it all it’s the same 6 people fighting with each other.

And worst part they all love it, but it ruins all the threads sadly.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Last crazy hot (and premature) take.

Rubstov will be the next first round bust. Mama Juju vibes.

Hope these guys are getting some solid off time away from the ice. Schedule gets asinine again as soon as things start up again.

The back to backs are overkill.

 

[Striiker]

Id appreciate if it was at least moved to its own thread.

Worst part of it all it’s the same 6 people fighting with each other.

And worst part they all love it, but it ruins all the threads sadly.

If this completely relevant/on-topic subject is so upsetting to read, feel free to come up with something else to talk about.

 

[deadhead]

They would have added one in the offseason then, as evidenced by everything else Fletcher did. Or added one now. Or sent out a cartoon walrus. All could help.

How many cheap defensemen are better than Hagg, Jojo?
Cheap defensemen under team control cost real assets to obtain, cheap defensemen who are free agents are usually pretty bad (because even mediocre veterans cost an arm and leg for the most part).
We added defensemen with NHL experience in Bigras, Witherspoon and Welinski. They are typical of what is out there at low cost.

You need to grow your own depth for the most part, you can add strategically, a veteran who can lift the game of linemates or defensive partners, but you can't pay $2-3M a year to all your bottom six forwards or third pair defensemen and certainly not your 13th/14th forwards and 7th/8th defensemen.

 

[Lord Defect]

I think at this point it's more about his future than getting something for him in a trade. If trading him to another team gives him a realistic chance to make it to the NHL, then you do it. It's the right thing to do.
If they believe there's still a chance for him on the Flyers, then they'll probably keep him.

It’s a business, not a charity. You don’t move him for a chance to play and take just whatever you can for him. You let him get healthy, play a bit in the minors and if you feel like he won’t make the big team, then you trade him for what you can get.

 

[Beef Invictus]

How many cheap defensemen are better than Hagg, Jojo?
Cheap defensemen under team control cost real assets to obtain, cheap defensemen who are free agents are usually pretty bad (because even mediocre veterans cost an arm and leg for the most part).
We added defensemen with NHL experience in Bigras, Witherspoon and Welinski. They are typical of what is out there at low cost.

You need to grow your own depth for the most part, you can add strategically, a veteran who can lift the game of linemates or defensive partners, but you can't pay $2-3M a year to all your bottom six forwards or third pair defensemen and certainly not your 13th/14th forwards and 7th/8th defensemen.

Quite a lot. I mean, we had several in our prospect pool alone to start the year.

 

[KrazyKat]

Do you think Toronto would do a Gostisbehere for Kapanen swap? would give us that Lindblom replacement. And if Patrick is back by playoffs. And JVR continues to heat up. This would put us in good shape.

Van Reimsdyk - Couturier - Konecny
Giroux - Hayes - Kapanen
Farabee - Patrick - Voracek
Raffl - Laughton - Pitlick

(Bunnaman)

Provorov-Niskanen
Sanheim-Myers
Freidman-Braun

(Hagg)

Hart

 

[deadhead]

Quite a lot. I mean, we had several in our prospect pool alone to start the year.

Butt that's my point, you have to grow your replacement for Hagg, you're not paying for a 7th D-man.
And no one has replaced him, Morin got hurt and Friedman hasn't seized the opportunity yet.
Myers benched Hagg (and got benched b/c they're trying to get a message through his thick skull).

We're still waiting for Kalynuk, Hogberg, Zamula, York, Wylie, Millman et al to arrive and push him out.

 

[tictactoe]

This is an incredibly bad way of looking at the thing. First of all, only 8 2013 2nd rounders HAVEN'T played an NHL game. 12 have played 100+ games.

I do not think it is a bad way.

Second, how many 2008 6th rounders made it to the NHL? How many have played 350+ games? Just 4, and one of them is Zac freaking Rinaldo.

and? So one of them is Rinaldo and? So random .. Rinaldo was nhl player and so was Dimitry Yuskhevich (also 6th round pick) both considered as success.. vs some guy name Jean-Marc Pelletier. If you do not see it that way... fine.. I am not here to prove anything to you.

Hagg, much like Rinaldo, doesn't belong in the league. The fact that coaches keep playing the two of them doesn't change that fundamental math. It just provides further grist for the mill in arguing against the supposed infallibility of old school hockey guys.

Well that is your opinion about Hagg or Rinaldo. Both are NHL players regardless of what you think, you are just not a fan. Not sure what Rinaldo has to do with topic? Why not Ben Eger was not a success until he scored against us in playoffs while playing for Hawks.

 

[Starat327]

 

[Beef Invictus]

Butt that's my point, you have to grow your replacement for Hagg, you're not paying for a 7th D-man.
And no one has replaced him, Morin got hurt and Friedman hasn't seized the opportunity yet.
Myers benched Hagg (and got benched b/c they're trying to get a message through his thick skull).

We're still waiting for Kalynuk, Hogberg, Zamula, York, Wylie, Millman et al to arrive and push him out.

Friedman is better than Hogg solely because he still has upside.

Hell, we could promote any warm body from the AHL and have something equivalent to him. You're really overrating him here. I don't think you understand precisely how unremarkable he is.

 

[Fire Tortorella]

Butt that's my point, you have to grow your replacement for Hagg, you're not paying for a 7th D-man.
And no one has replaced him, Morin got hurt and Friedman hasn't seized the opportunity yet.
Myers benched Hagg (and got benched b/c they're trying to get a message through his thick skull).

We're still waiting for Kalynuk, Hogberg, Zamula, York, Wylie, Millman et al to arrive and push him out.

Friedman has done everything he could given the opportunity (or lack thereof) presented to him. A Friedman-Braun paring (I believe Friedman has played on his off-side with the Phantoms) could at least get the puck out of their zone from time to time, unlike a Hagg-Braun pairing.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Do you think Toronto would do a Gostisbehere for Kapanen swap? would give us that Lindblom replacement. And if Patrick is back by playoffs. And JVR continues to heat up. This would put us in good shape.

Van Reimsdyk - Couturier - Konecny
Giroux - Hayes - Kapanen
Farabee - Patrick - Voracek
Raffl - Laughton - Pitlick

(Bunnaman)

Provorov-Niskanen
Sanheim-Myers
Freidman-Braun

(Hagg)

Hart

Wait did Laughton really go from 1C to 4C in less than a week!?

 

[DancingPanther]

Wait did Laughton really go from 1C to 4C in less than a week!?

FlyGuy, this is the difference Nolan Patrick makes

 

[BritainStix]

Ah, so really just two of them.


So there we are. There are not many players on these kinds of deals. That's my whole point. If you have one of these players you keep them because they make building a team easier.

Do you agree that making it easier to build a team is a good thing?

Was this a joke or did you purposefully ignore the bottom of my post?

Werenski has 30 points in 44 games this year, Rielly scored 70 points last year, Josi and McAvoy scored 55 ish points last year. I'm sure there are plenty more defenseman that could be put in this bracket.

I get that it kind of made your post look a little silly, but if we are gonna trade opinions, at least judge the whole content

And my arguement wasn't about building a team, lets drop that strawman for a later date, my argument was that Ghosts contract was not a "steal" in any way. Couturiers contract is an absolute steal, unless Ghost puts up those 60 points, heck even 50, then its just a deal.....

 

[Beef Invictus]

Was this a joke or did you purposefully ignore the bottom of my post?

Werenski has 30 points in 44 games this year, Rielly scored 70 points last year, Josi and McAvoy scored 55 ish points last year. I'm sure there are plenty more defenseman that could be put in this bracket.

I get that it kind of made your post look a little silly, but if we are gonna trade opinions, at least judge the whole content

And my arguement wasn't about building a team, lets drop that strawman for a later date, my argument was that Ghosts contract was not a "steal" in any way. Couturiers contract is an absolute steal, unless Ghost puts up those 60 points, heck even 50, then its just a deal.....

Your list is short. There are NOT that many dmen, and those that exist aren't generally available. There's a super good reason for that. All those contracts are great values, because once players like that begin hitting UFA they make 9% of the cap. So when you have one of those players for cheap, you keep them. The benefits for the team are substantial enough that getting proper value in a trade is very, very difficult.

You are approaching this from the perspective of "I want Ghost gone" rather than "what is best for the team?"

 

[Starat327]

Your list is short. There are NOT that many dmen, and those that exist aren't generally available. There's a super good reason for that. All those contracts are great values, because once players like that begin hitting UFA they make 9% of the cap. So when you have one of those players for cheap, you keep them. The benefits for the team are substantial enough that getting proper value in a trade is very, very difficult.

You are approaching this from the perspective of "I want Ghost gone" rather than "what is best for the team?"

I think you're looking st this all wrong, Beef. 3rd pairing guys only play like 10 mind a night at ES, and I'm fairly certain 10 minutes falls in that "it doesn't really matter" territory.

You're welcome.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Did he not have 65 points in 78 games the very next season after signing his deal?

 

[TCTC]

We should stop acting like Ghost's 65 point season was a usual Ghost season and the only reason he hasn't repeated it ever since is coaching.
That season has been such an outlier in his production that it's more likely that it was a fluke.
Remember when Jonathan Cheechoo had 93 points? I don't think many people would consider him a career PPG player.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Did he not have 65 points in 78 games the very next season after signing his deal?

Never a steal!

 

[Magua]

LMAO Cheechoo!

Friedman has done everything he could given the opportunity (or lack thereof) presented to him. A Friedman-Braun paring (I believe Friedman has played on his off-side with the Phantoms) could at least get the puck out of their zone from time to time, unlike a Hagg-Braun pairing.

I refuse to believe anyone in the organization besides Mark Friedman knows Mark Friedman has experience at LD. RD or bust.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Some fans truly deserve the mediocre state of this franchise.