2019/20 Roster Thread XXIX

[Beef Invictus]

I'm not talking about if he's worth the contract. But if he's not being maximized, then the cap could be used somewhere else

Out of the top competitive teams out there, Phily is allocating among the top $ to defense

As we can see, AV isn't using him to his full ability, so saying it's possible for him to be traded is a higher probability than before

The cap hit will not be used more efficiently somewhere else. Only Couturier surpasses Ghost for cap efficiency. Trading him for another player who can have similar positive impact for a similar cost is very, very unlikely. It doesn't matter how Ghost is used, that's the current situation. Drawing on Carle to compare again, on the FA market he got signed for 9.17% of the cap. Recall that Ghost is better than Carle was. Equivalent value for Ghost would therefore start at 7.47 million (he'd probably get more), so keep that in mind while evaluating his current lowball deal.

Ghost isn't being used well on the 3rd pair, but it does give us a competent 3rd pairing and that's worth quite a bit and has major roster impact. He's more than sufficiently a bargain that keeping him on the 3rd pairing is hardly cap inefficient.

 

[Tripod]

If an injury happened to Provy, Sanheim or Niskanen...you would see Ghosts worth once again.

 

[Magua]

On another note, courtesy of LeBrun:

Good lord, acquiring some mid-30s scrub like Nate Thompson or Trevor Lewis for a mid round pick would be such a Hextall move (though blowing a 1st round pick on Pageau on a heater would be a Minnesota Fletcher move).We have 4th line centers out our wazoo -- Raffl and Laughton chiefly. Acquiring a worse 4th liner (7 points in 37 games for Lewis; 10 points in 50 games for Thompson) does nothing. Worst comes to worst, we roll Giroux at center. Frost absolutely should get another chance sooner rather than later. Our center situation is not beholden to Patrick making a comeback. SIT TIGHT.

 

[FLYguy3911]

If an injury happened to Provy, Sanheim or Niskanen...you would see Ghosts worth once again.

Provy or Sanheim. Yes. When Braun got hurt it was Myers who got promoted.

 

[mja]

You and Alanis Morissette.

We're getting to Inception levels of irony now.

 

[FLYguy3911]

On another note, courtesy of LeBrun:

Good lord, acquiring some mid-30s scrub like Nate Thompson or Trevor Lewis for a mid round pick would be such a Hextall move. We have 4th line centers out our wazoo -- Raffl and Laughton chiefly. Acquiring a worse 4th liner (7 points in 37 games for Lewis; 10 points in 50 games for Thompson) does nothing. Worst comes to worst, we roll Giroux at center. Frost absolutely should get another chance sooner rather than later. Our center situation is not beholden to Patrick making a comeback.

Or they could go for a Gamechanger. Does Desharnais have an NHL out clause?

 

[Starat327]

Or they could go for a Gamechanger. Does Desharnais have an NHL out clause?

Now that's a franchise player.

 

[Magua]

Or they could go for a Gamechanger. Does Desharnais have an NHL out clause?

Every time Desharnais gets brought up by first reaction is, "Damn. We need a game changer like that."

But my SECOND reaction is I remember our 2nd favorite prospect guru, Grant McCagg, used to bitch endlessly about him when Therrien coached/overused him. He would mimic Therrien calling him "Little Davey."

 

[deadhead]

On another note, courtesy of LeBrun:



Good lord, acquiring some mid-30s scrub like Nate Thompson or Trevor Lewis for a mid round pick would be such a Hextall move (though blowing a 1st round pick on Pageau on a heater would be a Minnesota Fletcher move).We have 4th line centers out our wazoo -- Raffl and Laughton chiefly. Acquiring a worse 4th liner (7 points in 37 games for Lewis; 10 points in 50 games for Thompson) does nothing. Worst comes to worst, we roll Giroux at center. Frost absolutely should get another chance sooner rather than later. Our center situation is not beholden to Patrick making a comeback. SIT TIGHT.

I think that's why Fletcher has been rotating Vorobyev, Frost and Bunnaman out at center.
He wants a kid to take the job so he doesn't have to make a move.

There must be some happy medium, a player better than Thompson or Lewis who won't cost a 1st rd pick or top prospect as a rental.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

On another note, courtesy of LeBrun:

Good lord, acquiring some mid-30s scrub like Nate Thompson or Trevor Lewis for a mid round pick would be such a Hextall move (though blowing a 1st round pick on Pageau on a heater would be a Minnesota Fletcher move).We have 4th line centers out our wazoo -- Raffl and Laughton chiefly. Acquiring a worse 4th liner (7 points in 37 games for Lewis; 10 points in 50 games for Thompson) does nothing. Worst comes to worst, we roll Giroux at center. Frost absolutely should get another chance sooner rather than later. Our center situation is not beholden to Patrick making a comeback. SIT TIGHT.

 

[Chinatown88]

On another note, courtesy of LeBrun:
Good lord, acquiring some mid-30s scrub like Nate Thompson or Trevor Lewis for a mid round pick would be such a Hextall move (though blowing a 1st round pick on Pageau on a heater would be a Minnesota Fletcher move).We have 4th line centers out our wazoo -- Raffl and Laughton chiefly. Acquiring a worse 4th liner (7 points in 37 games for Lewis; 10 points in 50 games for Thompson) does nothing. Worst comes to worst, we roll Giroux at center. Frost absolutely should get another chance sooner rather than later. Our center situation is not beholden to Patrick making a comeback. SIT TIGHT.

No
Nein
Nyet
不要
むり

 

[Striiker]

It’s absolutely bananas that anyone would complain about having someone with Ghosts cap hit on the 3rd pair instead of complaining about someone with Ghosts ability on the 3rd pair.

He’s done everything in his power to show that he belongs higher up and yet no change is made. He’s been fantastic for a while now and it gets ignored by a large part of this board and the staff. Just look at his numbers with Hagg and Myers, compared to their numbers away from him, to see what a huge impact he’s having.

Expecting more scoring out of him shows a lack of understanding of the impact that usage and teammates has on a player.

 

[Chinatown88]

View attachment 312371

@Beef Invictus can you beat up this article?

 

[renberg]

On another note, courtesy of LeBrun:

Good lord, acquiring some mid-30s scrub like Nate Thompson or Trevor Lewis
for a mid round pick would be such a Hextall move (though blowing a 1st round pick on Pageau on a heater would be a Minnesota Fletcher move).We have 4th line centers out our wazoo -- Raffl and Laughton chiefly. Acquiring a worse 4th liner (7 points in 37 games for Lewis; 10 points in 50 games for Thompson) does nothing. Worst comes to worst, we roll Giroux at center. Frost absolutely should get another chance sooner rather than later. Our center situation is not beholden to Patrick making a comeback. SIT TIGHT.

I’d rather take my chances with Frost than acquire these types of players. Sure, at this point in his career, Frost lacks their defensive ability but his offensive potential makes up for that.

 

[Striiker]

Frost isn't bad defensively.

 

[Tripod]

Frost isn't bad defensively.

He is an offensive prospect so can't be good defensively.

silly kid

 

[FLYguy3911]

Lewis and Thompson have a case to be the worst defensive forwards on their respective teams this year. But yeah stereotypes are much easier.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Striiker]

He is an offensive prospect so can't be good defensively.

silly kid

I don’t understand why people are so lazy with these stereotypes.

Its credibility suicide.

 

[Beef Invictus]

To expound yet further on the value of a contract like Ghost's and the flexibility it provides, the 3 million below market value means that we can have a player of his caliber and also have two players like Raffl and Braun. Or have Hayes. Or be able to have Niskanen. Or afford JVR. So we can have him anchoring the 3rd pair, and have extra depth, without much issue due to the affordability of the contract. That's value which is difficult to account for in a trade, and it's hard to replace when you send that contract out in a deal. This is one of the many ways Ghost is a net positive for the team; his team-friendly deal.

Now, if he were being paid at FA rates at 7.5 million and he were getting the usage he's getting now, that would be a big problem. If he were paid that much then it means we wouldn't be able to have someone like Niskanen, or JVR, or Braun. Or perhaps a combination of depth players like some pairing of Raffl, Braun, or Laughton. In that situation, with that cap hit and this usage, then yeah. We'd be better served switching him for depth. But that's not the situation; quite the opposite, he lets us afford depth.

 

[Striiker]

We actually don't even need to have Ghost on the 3rd pair. We can make zero roster changes and actually use him properly.

Just use common sense to put the pairs together and then use them as close to equal as possible, adjusting time based on who is playing well at the time.

There's no reason to have the "top pair" get like 6+ more 5v5 minutes than the "bottom pair". They're used too much (and it's hurting their play) and the other guys are used too little (and it's hurting their play)... so the solution seems pretty obvious, right?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Is Ghost's $4.5M contract really 3 million below market value? Is it really such a monster steal?

He's 52nd among NHL defensemen the last two seasons in points per game (0.42).

The 52nd biggest contract among NHL defensemen is $5,000,000.

His closest comps over the last two seasons in terms of production and usage are probably

Shattenkirk (bought out of a bad $6.65M contract; making $1.75M this year)
Girard ($5M)
Butcher ($3.733M)
Dunn ($722K, becomes RFA after the season)
Gardiner ($4.05M)

Severson, Vatanen, and Goligoski have virtually identical production, though play at least 2.5 minutes per game more. They make $4.167M, $4.875M, and $5.475M, respectively.

So the notion that Ghost's contract is some kind of massive bargain doesn't seem accurate to me. In fact, it's right around what it should be given his production and usage.

It would be a steal if he was the player he was 3 seasons ago. But he's not.

 

[Striiker]

Imagine using raw points to judge and intentionally ignoring that the only thing that’s changed is usage.

Being honest is not nearly as hard as some people make it seem.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Did you really just whip out the 52nd largest contract without accounting for cap percentage at signing or anything else like that?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Cap percentage at signing has zilch to do with my point. My point isn't about comparing contracts at the time they were signed. My point is about the here and now. And Ghost's current cap hit is in line with his production and usage the last two seasons and thus not a huge steal, and certainly not $3M under what it should be.