2019/20 Roster Thread XXIX

[flyersnorth]

Sounds like they're using Rielly's LTIR cap space for Barrie's replacement.

In that case Ghost would make sense for them.

And @Striiker too.

Yeah, my misread assuming TSN meant right handed when they just meant right side.

 

[deadhead]

“What do you expect, he’s a 7th defenseman” isn’t really a valid POV when examining all of this info I just shared*

Actually, it's quite valid, because there's a big difference between a bottom pair guy like say Butcher (used in a similar role to Ghost) and a 7th defensemen only pressed into service due to injury.

So you'd have to dig deeper an answer two questions:
1) how many of these are #5/#6 D-men (because both on a pair would face similar competition), versus depth fill-ins.
2) how do they match up with different partners, we know Hagg-Ghost >> Hagg-Gudas or Hagg-Braun.

I mean it's hard to maintain depth 8-9 players deep, we already lost Morin for the season, then we lost Braun and Ghost for an extended period.
So we were down to Hagg, Friedman and "next LHV defenseman up."
Blaming Hagg for York/Zamula/Kalynuk being two years away?
And I'm not sure Friedman would be an improvement, he might, but he also might be meh.

No, we can't spend $2M for a 7th defenseman to replace Hagg, and few minimum wage guys are improvements (since those under team control aren't available, and those who hit FA, see Folin, aren't often desirable).

 

[Striiker]

Hagg could intentionally put the puck in his own net and there would be people trying to defend it.

Some confuse being contrarians with being objective.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg could intentionally put the puck in his own net and there would be people trying to defend it.

Some confuse being contrarians with being objective.

Some simply can't understand a nuanced argument.

 

[TB87]

 

[bobbythebrain]

Ghost wasn't used as a bottom pair dman last year. Things change.

His usage this year leaves him more exposed to a trade

 

[Lord Defect]

Hagg could intentionally put the puck in his own net and there would be people trying to defend it.

Some confuse being contrarians with being objective.

Yeah but what a shot it was!

 

[Striiker]

Yeah but what a shot it was!

He's an artist with the puck!

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ghost wasn't used as a bottom pair dman last year. Things change.

His usage this year leaves him more exposed to a trade

What a terrible idea for a team that needs every ounce of cap efficiency.

 

[Striiker]

What a terrible idea for a team that needs every ounce of cap efficiency.

I doubt many who are supporting the idea of trading him have thought it through nearly enough to consider that.

Most came from the starting point of "I want Ghost gone" and have worked backwards from there. That's why the suggested returns are so bad.

 

[Rich Nixon]

What an ignorant comment. They’re heat maps that a poster took ample time to gather. It’s digestible information to peruse. Nothing more. If you don’t like what they show, then argue against them. If you don’t care what they show, then spare us the pointless snide remarks. I’m sure your precious index finger can manage to scroll down without falling off.

It's more the beaten corpse of the old and true maxim: "Hagg sucks." than it is the maps themselves, to be honest.

 

[deadhead]

I'm more concerned with why Sanheim and Myers aren't great than how much Hagg sucks, myself.
If those two played up to their talent, they'd play 20+ minutes a night and along with Provorov, give us a great young trio.

Another question is where are the young defensemen behind Hagg?
Morin is hurt, Friedman unproven, the rest of LHV are worse than Hagg, and the prospects are all a year plus away from the NHL.

 

[Tripod]

What a terrible idea for a team that needs every ounce of cap efficiency.

Naw....just trade him for a expansion draft exempt asset.

EZPZ

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm more concerned with why Sanheim and Myers aren't great than how much Hagg sucks, myself.
If those two played up to their talent, they'd play 20+ minutes a night and along with Provorov, give us a great young trio.

Another question is where are the young defensemen behind Hagg?
Morin is hurt, Friedman unproven, the rest of LHV are worse than Hagg, and the prospects are all a year plus away from the NHL.

Considering he peaked as a middling player there, I'm skeptical of that.

 

[bobbythebrain]

What a terrible idea for a team that needs every ounce of cap efficiency.

4.5mil for a bottom pair isn't efficient. His usage is debatable, but currently

Provy-Nisk
Sanheim-Braun
4.5mil-Myers

Is not efficient

 

[Fire Tortorella]

I'm more concerned with why Sanheim and Myers aren't great than how much Hagg sucks, myself.
If those two played up to their talent, they'd play 20+ minutes a night and along with Provorov, give us a great young trio.

Another question is where are the young defensemen behind Hagg?
Morin is hurt, Friedman unproven, the rest of LHV are worse than Hagg, and the prospects are all a year plus away from the NHL.

Then Friedman needs to get "proven" one way or another and play instead of Hagg.

 

[Beef Invictus]

4.5mil for a bottom pair isn't efficient. His usage is debatable, but currently

Provy-Nisk
Sanheim-Braun
4.5mil-Myers

Is not efficient

4.5 million for any dman of Ghost's ability is efficient. The alternative is a much inferior player and a worse 3rd pair. It's better to have a 4.5 million dollar Ghost on the 3rd pair than it is to be a two pairing team. Remember how well that worked in 2010?

 

[Magua]

It's more the beaten corpse of the old and true maxim: "Hagg sucks." than it is the maps themselves, to be honest.

Well, sorry for being rude then. But for numerous people, including the media, it’s not an old corpse already in the ground. It’s more like a Weekend At Bernie’s thing. Without the comedy.

I'm more concerned with why Sanheim and Myers aren't great than how much Hagg sucks, myself.
If those two played up to their talent, they'd play 20+ minutes a night and along with Provorov, give us a great young trio.

Sanheim is used as our #2 at ES. Sanheim does average 20 minutes a night. And usually without a couple minutes of PP time. I won’t get into “not that great.” Because we know where you stand, and it doesn’t stand up under scrutiny.

Myers still has a long ways to go in completing any sort of passes, providing value in the offensive zone beyond luck, and utilizing his raw skill-set. Expecting him to be our no doubt about it #3 is expecting too much now, let alone in the future. None of this has any bearing on Hagg, who isn’t in the lineup with a healthy roster.

 

[Beef Invictus]

For reference, Ghost's cap percentage at signing is lower than Matt Carle's was.

Ghost is better than Carle was. He isn't remotely the albatross people pretend he is.

 

[mja]

Some simply can't understand a nuanced argument.

 

[deadhead]

You and Alanis Morissette.

 

[deadhead]

Sanheim is used as our #2 at ES. Sanheim does average 20 minutes a night. And usually without a couple minutes of PP time. I won’t get into “not that great.” Because we know where you stand, and it doesn’t stand up under scrutiny.

Myers still has a long ways to go in completing any sort of passes, providing value in the offensive zone beyond luck, and utilizing his raw skill-set. Expecting him to be our no doubt about it #3 is expecting too much now, let alone in the future. None of this has any bearing on Hagg, who isn’t in the lineup with a healthy roster.

Sanheim is not a great defenseman, hopefully, the term "yet" applies.
Myers right now isn't a good defenseman, though he shows flashes of greatness.

My point was simply that whether they reach their upside will have a far greater impact than whether we have Hagg/Friedman/Morin/player to be named later as the 7th defenseman. It's VdV all over again. The real issue is when are we going to develop someone better to replace Hagg.

 

[Magua]

It would sure be nice to see Ghost get a run in the top 4, not stapled to a mediocre partner and, more importantly, untalented forwards. And it would be nice to see him on PP1, where he stands a chance to provide more value than Provorov over the long haul when %s balance. I know these things will not happen because of self-imposed roster restrictions, sample size illusions, Michel, and the honest fact he hasn’t done enough tangible things to earn the benefit of the doubt he deserves with a new staff.

His contract “wastefulness” is not his issue — it’s the team’s. I do hope he gets to waste a spot on another team, if that’s what it takes to shine again.

 

[bobbythebrain]

4.5 million for any dman of Ghost's ability is efficient. The alternative is a much inferior player and a worse 3rd pair. It's better to have a 4.5 million dollar Ghost on the 3rd pair than it is to be a two pairing team. Remember how well that worked in 2010?

I'm not talking about if he's worth the contract. But if he's not being maximized, then the cap could be used somewhere else

Out of the top competitive teams out there, Phily is allocating among the top $ to defense

As we can see, AV isn't using him to his full ability, so saying it's possible for him to be traded is a higher probability than before

 

[deadhead]

I'm happy to keep Ghost on the third pair at ES, but he should be the PP1 QB.
Hopefully, Sanheim/Myers works out and there's no spot for Ghost
If Sanheim can make it work with Braun, Ghost should be able to.

Next two years it gets tricky, if Braun walks they need to find a reliable RHD, Friedman?
In two years, Ghost is almost certainly gone unless Myers goes belly up.
So when and if York, Zamula, and Kalynuk will be ready?