Speculation: 2019-20 News/Rumors,Roster thread Post Deadline

[KopitarFAN]

I guess I don’t get this logic. Might as well trade everyone over 26 then if they’re not ready to compete yet. Get rid of every productive player 26 and older, which also includes Matt Roy and Cal Petersen, since this team is still years away from being competitive. The Kings need to add more draft picks.

Difference with Roy is if they want to extend him this summer it would be at a sweetheart number because he has played less than 100 NHL games, with Petersen, he's a goaltender, so it's a different deal because only 1 plays at a time, not to mention, by the time his new deal would start Quick would be in his walk year. (or gone)

 

[BigKing]

You can sign Iafallo to a deal above $3MM because all of these young guys we are talking about will be on ELC's and the old guy money will fall off before you have to pony up for these prospects. Of course, not all of them are going to be on the Kings and/or "make it".

The odds of Iafallo having a better career than 25% of the Kings current Top 10 prospects are probably astronomical. He's already proven he is an NHL player while the others haven't.

I mean, I like Grundstrom but there isn't any compelling evidence that he'll be a better NHL player than Iafallo outside of pedigree. I say all of this as a guy that is not a huge Iafallo guy; however, you win championships with solid depth like that on your 3rd line.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I prefer quality over quantity. The Kings don’t need more picks. If they move a productive player in his prime, do it for an upgrade. This team needs players who can produce now in addition to the young players who are breaking in.

Grundstrom couldn’t even pin down a spot in the lineup on a weak Kings roster last season, he has a lot to prove. The guys who think any young player can produce also share the shortsighted opinion that every single prospect is going to pan out. It’s well apparent when we read kings11’s proposed lineups.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Thats funny considering the fact that Iafallo was second on the team in points. No other winger posted 40+ points, so I guess that makes the most productive winger on the team expendable. If anyone on Kopitar’s wing can get points, maybe you can explain why others weren’t as productive.

I think that just speaks to how bad our wingers are offensively. Iafallo is on that 35 yr old Dustin Brown level of providing offense as a winger. He's better than Martin Frk, Kempe, Clifford, etc...

I just have a very hard time believing he is better at it then two of Turcotte, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Kupari, Madden, etc... So it's tough to want to pay him for being on a 50 point pace when his center was on a 73 point pace. That gap is too big especially for his career year. I'd like to see if some of our top prospects can play a bigger role in generating offense on our scoring lines.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think that just speaks to how bad are wingers are offensively. Iafallo is on that 35 yr old Dustin Brown level of providing offense as a winger. He's better than Martin Frk, Kempe, Clifford, etc...

I just have a very hard time he is better at it then two of Turcotte, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Kupari, Madden, etc... So it's tough to want to pay him for being on a 50 point pace when his center was on a 73 point pace. That gap is too big especially for his career year. I'd like to see if some of our top prospects can play a bigger role in generating offense on our scoring lines.

How about we wait and see if they can make the NHL first and see what they can prove at this level before deciding to pencil them into the lineup? The players you mentioned are 1-2 years away. You’d prefer to trade a productive player to force a younger player into the lineup?

That would be like suggesting the team get rid of Cal Petersen in order to make room for Jacob Ingham.

 

[Rusty Batch]

How about we wait and see if they can make the NHL first and see what they can prove at this level before deciding to pencil them into the lineup? The players you mentioned are 1-2 years away. You’d prefer to trade a productive player to force a younger player into the lineup?

That would be like suggesting the team get rid of Cal Petersen in order to make room for Jacob Ingham.

I didn't say trade him, someone else did. I said sign him to a contract no longer than three years Max. Play him in a role where it suits his abilities and as a place holder for when the prospects are ready to outproduce him makes sense.

But the reality is that Iafallo is getting more ice time than Kucherov. I would like silly stuff like that to end.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I didn't say trade him, someone else did. I said sign him to a contract no longer than three years Max. Play him in a role where it suits his abilities and as a place holder for when the prospects are ready to outproduce him makes sense.

But the reality is that Iafallo is getting more ice time than Kucherov. I would like silly stuff like that to end.

That’s fine, but what prospects are ready? I’m of the opinion that’s it’s incredulous that someone thinks acquiring more picks for a productive player actually benefits the team.

And look at the Kings roster compared to Tampa Bay. Iafallo averaged a whole four seconds more Kucherov.

Who deserved more ice time than Iafallo?

 

[Rusty Batch]

That’s fine, but what prospects are ready? I’m of the opinion that’s it’s incredulous that someone thinks acquiring more picks for a productive player actually benefits the team.

And look at the Kings roster compared to Tampa Bay. Iafallo averaged a whole four seconds more Kucherov.

Who deserved more ice time than Iafallo?

I've gone back and forth with enough people on here to know that my opinion that some of these prospects are already better offensive players than the majority of forwards on our current roster is not a popular one here. So you can take that W if you want, reality is that nobody really knows until it happens.

What we do know is that someone like Iafallo has proven that he is not a top line winger. But he has also proven that he is a solid two way player. And I don't think it's unreasonable to want him on the third line.

Let's give him a look there for the majority of the next two or three years so that we can more accurately assess what type of value he has in a less prominent role and see if we want to re-up him at age 29 for more years and at a price that is more fitting to a third liner. or maybe we decide we have young players who might do more in that role.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I'm not going to launch into my usual defense of Iafallo other than to say fine, if he's so bad, then let someone beat him off the roster in training camp.

Money/cap isn't an issue and you aren't going to get trade value for him anyway and we don't need more picks. He's a good hardworking kid who sets a good example and can play anywhere in the lineup. If we suddenly have 13 better forwards, then f***ing fantastic! But I doubt it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I've gone back and forth with enough people on here to know that my opinion that some of these prospects are already better offensive players than the majority of forwards on our current roster is not a popular one here. So you can take that W if you want, reality is that nobody really knows until it happens.

What we do know is that someone like Iafallo has proven that he is not a top line winger. But he has also proven that he is a solid two way player. And I don't think it's unreasonable to want him on the third line.

Let's give him a look there for the majority of the next two or three years so that we can more accurately assess what type of value he has in a less prominent role and see if we want to re-up him at age 29 for more years and at a price that is more fitting to a third liner. or maybe we decide we have young players who might do more in that role.

20g 50p is absolutely complementary top-sixer production, that's Tanner Pearson territory.

Agreed that it will be nice to see what he can bring in a middle-six capacity as that's where he'd likely be on a deep team, but no point in putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Rusty Batch]

20g 50p is absolutely complementary top-sixer production, that's Tanner Pearson territory.

Agreed that it will be nice to see what he can bring in a middle-six capacity as that's where he'd likely be on a deep team, but no point in putting the cart before the horse.

The problem is that he's getting big minutes in an exclusively top line role and in his career year he's being outproduced (in terms of pace) by 23 points by his center. So you have to expect that on a second line role with less minutes and a C that probably won't put up 70+ points it's tough to expect the same production. So then what are you looking at? A 35-40 point second line winger probably.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The problem is that he's getting big minutes in an exclusively top line role and in his career year he's being outproduced (in terms of pace) by 23 points by his center. So you have to expect that on a second line role with less minutes and a C that probably won't put up 70+ points it's tough to expect the same production. So then what are you looking at? A 35-40 point second line winger probably.

What better options were there to place on Kopitar's LW? I also haven't seen any names mentioned as to who deserved more ice time or that spot on Kopitar's wing.

Are Iafallo's critics forgetting what this roster looked like? For a team that is one or two seasons away from competing, you'd think Iafallo would be the perfect player to hang onto to buy time for prospects who aren't ready.

 

[Lt Dan]

What better options were there to place on Kopitar's LW? I also haven't seen any names mentioned as to who deserved more ice time or that spot on Kopitar's wing.

Are Iafallo's critics forgetting what this roster looked like? For a team that is one or two seasons away from competing, you'd think Iafallo would be the perfect player to hang onto to buy time for prospects who aren't ready.

Indeed
He is the new Derek Armstrong

 

[Rusty Batch]

What better options were there to place on Kopitar's LW? I also haven't seen any names mentioned as to who deserved more ice time or that spot on Kopitar's wing.

Are Iafallo's critics forgetting what this roster looked like? For a team that is one or two seasons away from competing, you'd think Iafallo would be the perfect player to hang onto to buy time for prospects who aren't ready.

There were no better options lol. I already said that in a reply to you. That's the point I'm trying to make. Iafallo's production is heavily impacted by being miscast as a top line winger for years on a team that was basically tanking. At the RW spot Dustin Brown has essentially done the exact same thing (much better than Iafallo two years ago and a bit worse than him this year) even though he is well past his prime and was never considered a first line winger in terms of pure offense. Should we just pretend that Brown is also a guy that should play a top 6 role because of that level of production? Obviously not, it's just the best of what we had.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There were no better options lol. I already said that in a reply to you. That's the point I'm trying to make. Iafallo's production is heavily impacted by being miscast as a top line winger for years on a team that was basically tanking. At the RW spot Dustin Brown has essentially done the exact same thing (much better than Iafallo two years ago and a bit worse than him this year) even though he is well past his prime and was never considered a first line winger in terms of pure offense. Should we just pretend that Brown is also a guy that should play a top 6 role because of that level of production? Obviously not, it's just the best of what we had.

Yet you keep harping on Iafallo's ice time and production as if him being on the top line is a problem. For a rebuilding team, you need the mid 20's players like Iafallo who can produce some points.

Guess what? Iafallo ranked 33rd in scoring among LWs in the NHL. Iafallo had more points than players like van Riemsdyk, Zucker, Rakell, and even Jamie Benn. He also outproduced Jake DeBrusk, Brandon Saad, and Palat. These are LWs playing on teams loaded with offense, unlike the Kings.

Iafallo's point totals were within range with the likes of Brady Tkachuk, Anders Lee, Chris Kreider, Tanner Pearson, and the greatest player in the history of the sport, Dominik Kubalik.

I'll just rack up Iafallo's critics as those who don't have the faintest idea of what he brings to the table.

Speaking of which...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The problem is that he's getting big minutes in an exclusively top line role and in his career year he's being outproduced (in terms of pace) by 23 points by his center. So you have to expect that on a second line role with less minutes and a C that probably won't put up 70+ points it's tough to expect the same production. So then what are you looking at? A 35-40 point second line winger probably.

That's not much of a metric. In Dustin Brown's career year, he was outproduced by 31 points by his center. Would you say 61 points isn't top line production and that Dustin Brown should have moved down? Wouldn't you agree that moving anyone down the lineup would stunt production by virtue of playing with less talent and less time? No, 50 points on a bottom rung team is damn good production and the guy has literally been the only King to improve his production by large percentages over his last few seasons when the team was a total shitshow around him.

There's no doubt who the line driver is and who the complementary winger is, but this forum completely undersells Iafallo's abilities. It's not ideal that he's on the top line, but it's far from a big problem that he's on the top line.

I get what you're saying and it's basically that "someone has to score" and that Iafallo is a product of circumstance to some degree but that's the point--he's earned it until someone is good enough to take it from him. And he produces well vs. the field of top-six LWers.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I think you guys are desperately trying to make me have an opinion that I don't have.

I like Iafallo I think he's a good solid player that plays a two way game and can chip in offensively. I'd like to keep him around short term. And see how he does in a role that isn't in the top line as I don't see him being a long term top 6 winger on this team especially with the caliber of prospects we have and will be adding.

If you guys want to lock him up on a long term contract especially if you want to pay him based on a 50 point pace (which both of these things is specifically what I am arguing against) then I think that's a really bad idea.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Now this is the type of player I'd like to see the Kings target.

 

[Little Psycho]

Now this is the type of player I'd like to see the Kings target.

Isn't he apart of their core? Don't know why them would trade him

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Isn't he apart of their core? Don't know why them would trade him

They’re pretty much capped out and still have to re-sign their #1 goalie or lose him as a UFA.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think you guys are desperately trying to make me have an opinion that I don't have.

I like Iafallo I think he's a good solid player that plays a two way game and can chip in offensively. I'd like to keep him around short term. And see how he does in a role that isn't in the top line as I don't see him being a long term top 6 winger on this team especially with the caliber of prospects we have and will be adding.

If you guys want to lock him up on a long term contract especially if you want to pay him based on a 50 point pace (which both of these things is specifically what I am arguing against) then I think that's a really bad idea.

I only addressed the premises you portrayed.

I agree with your conclusion, but typically guys like Iafallo don't get more than 3-4 year deals from any team at all.

I guess I'm just not worried about the Kings throwing crazy money at him nor am I worried about other more significantly cash-strapped teams poaching him for free. But he compares very favorably to Alex Killorn, himself a college playing late bloomer who thrives anywhere he's placed in the lineup.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Its not that Iafallo is bad, but that he's gonna have to paid closer to a top 6 player (which he's not) rather than the 3rd liner that he would be on a good team. If someone else wants to pay him upwards of $5M a year, good for him, but I wouldn't want to be that team.

 

[kings11]

Thats funny considering the fact that Iafallo was second on the team in points. No other winger posted 40+ points, so I guess that makes the most productive winger on the team expendable. If anyone on Kopitar’s wing can get points, maybe you can explain why others weren’t as productive.

oh Ziggy, look back at the thread. No one is saying trade him for the sake of it.. If his ask is $4-5 per the question was asked would/should we do it.. I said no, i'd trade him..

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

oh Ziggy, look back at the thread. No one is saying trade him for the sake of it.. If his ask is $4-5 per the question was asked would/should we do it.. I said no, i'd trade him..

But for more draft picks? Why? Trade him for someone who can do what he does or package him for someone better. He's at a cost controlled price right now for another season. That holds value in my eyes.

 

[kings11]

You can sign Iafallo to a deal above $3MM because all of these young guys we are talking about will be on ELC's and the old guy money will fall off before you have to pony up for these prospects. Of course, not all of them are going to be on the Kings and/or "make it".

The odds of Iafallo having a better career than 25% of the Kings current Top 10 prospects are probably astronomical. He's already proven he is an NHL player while the others haven't.

I mean, I like Grundstrom but there isn't any compelling evidence that he'll be a better NHL player than Iafallo outside of pedigree. I say all of this as a guy that is not a huge Iafallo guy; however, you win championships with solid depth like that on your 3rd line.

$3-3.5 seems to be a nice range with 3 years as term.. The question was if he'd be worth north of $4 mill per, with previous signings and the answer to that is no. Regardless of ELC contracts, you dont need to pay that for a bottom 6 guy.. remove him from Kopitar and see what happens, if he can still put up points then we got a deal but the odds of that happening arent great. I view him, Lizotte, Amadio, Wagner, and even Grundstrom as placeholders for Vets and the few prospects that actually make it