2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[Sausages]

I'm curious. What is there to exactly supplant. We're not winning, are you implying with "worse" players the Kings can somehow go beyond 31st towards being relegated to the ECHL?

Supplanting these players would imply there would be something you're actually trying to retain. The suck?

Yeah the Kings drafted very poorly under DL that's true. But again, if the team is twirling around last place for a few years now, what exactly are you trying to maintain?

I do agree I wish NHL contracts topped out to 5 years.

Doughty has been so damn bad its insane. I used to see so many stellar displays of his defensive awareness, now he's not doing anything. I haven't seen him do a thing that'd separate him from Martinez if they both wore the same number.


Kopitar and Doughty deferring to eachother nonstop is the most irritating thing I've ever seen on the PP. Idk why 2 passive players are running a power play.

Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah

 

[Sausages]

To players like Kopitar and Doughty? Absolutely. I actually prefer keeping terms to five years, but the ugly reality is you either pay a premium for a shorter contract or you add years to make the overall hit more palatable.

The fact the Kings haven't rid themselves of a key cog yet has been explained. Nobody in the org has been good enough to supplant them. That's on the org.

The funniest part is thinking you'd get someone to agree to a top 6 or top pairing role for $1 million. You overspend in UFA.

Feel free to shoot me down, but at this juncture I'd prefer to see Kopi and Doughty traded for as much youth/picks as possible and while rebuilding make the transition with some lesser talent with the leadership qualities which our current leaders lack.

I still recall with fondness in 2006/7/8 seeing a young group of exciting players, losing more than winning, but for the first time in the Kings history bringing real hope.

In December 2006 I was in a bar in SE Asia talking hockey with some Canadians who were dismayed that they had met King's fan. They were cracking up. I told them to keep an eye on the team and remember the name Kopitar. Time for that wheel to come full circle.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Can we swap Stoll for Kempe at center.

Please move Kempe to the wing.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Jon Rosen Mod • 2 minutes ago
Roster move comin'. See if you can guess what it is.

?????????????

I don't know....how about a JAD or Luff recall?
Vilardi activated and sent to the Reign?

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm curious. What is there to exactly supplant. We're not winning, are you implying with "worse" players the Kings can somehow go beyond 31st towards being relegated to the ECHL?

Supplanting these players would imply there would be something you're actually trying to retain. The suck?

Yeah the Kings drafted very poorly under DL that's true. But again, if the team is twirling around last place for a few years now, what exactly are you trying to maintain?

I do agree I wish NHL contracts topped out to 5 years.

Doughty has been so damn bad its insane. I used to see so many stellar displays of his defensive awareness, now he's not doing anything. I haven't seen him do a thing that'd separate him from Martinez if they both wore the same number.


Kopitar and Doughty deferring to eachother nonstop is the most irritating thing I've ever seen on the PP. Idk why 2 passive players are running a power play.

By supplanting, I mean you have to have young players who can fill in/replace the roles of the older players you are trying to trade away. It's one of the best moves DL did, trading Johnson +, because Voynov was able to replace him. You have to have personnel who is able to fill in the new role, else you overspend on vets who have no future.

The UFA market is best as far as getting depth and filling holes. Replacing needs you artificially create is inefficient.

My point is, the Kings had a more pressing need than trading old and stale players. They had a developmental system whose best forward they developed internally is Tyler Toffoli. Kopitar played in Europe instead of developing in Ontario. Schenn and Simmonds were traded away before they were reliable top six forwards in the NHL. Iafallo and Lizotte, two college UFAs, outworked and outplayed all of them.

If the Kings didn't fix how they cultivated the prospects, especially at forward, what does it matter if you get 20 first round picks?

I'm not trying to maintain anything. I'm advocating focusing on the more pressing issue and fixing that first.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Plenty of playoff teams would make a move for Kopitar or Doughty to make a run at it. While their cap space is high, that wouldn’t prevent a trade from happening. We’d have to take on a contract, obviously.

The only real question is whether AEG would approve such a move. They’ve stood with these players and gave them whatever they wanted from contracts to player friendly coaches and management.

 

[tny760]

I do agree I wish NHL contracts topped out to 5 years.

i'd like to see this too, i think it benefits the fans and the owners, not sure it ever gets by the players union though

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[kings11]

Plenty of playoff teams would make a move for Kopitar or Doughty to make a run at it. While their cap space is high, that wouldn’t prevent a trade from happening. We’d have to take on a contract, obviously.

The only real question is whether AEG would approve such a move. They’ve stood with these players and gave them whatever they wanted from contracts to player friendly coaches and management.

They wouldnt approve of such a move... and honestly, if you guys think its bad now... trade those 2 and we wouldnt sniff the playoffs for the next decade or so... Patience is the only remedy for this club now

 

[King'sPawn]

Yet it was clearly the best decsion.

I didn't advocate trading a Kopitar in the middle of a contract, I advocated trading him instead of maxing him out. It was always going to be bad business. The Kings weren't going to get anywhere near full value out of that deal, not even half of it.

The timing is the issue here. So many arguing against this are looking at it in a vacuum instead of reading the terrain, which is usually the biggest source of conflict I have with other posters.

Once the 14-15 season ended, and the host of problems Lombardi had created for.the back end of his era were starting to develop, it was clear that the organization had to take a more pragmatic and less fanciful view of the future. At that point you look at your asset list, see that it is totally bereft of talent, and the only realistic conclusion is that you don't have enough - hell, any - cost-controlled assets to supplement your aging roster. A gap was inevitable.

Now all the folks that lamented about losing their favorite players were arguing that trading them away would hurt attendance, hurt moral, take them out of the playoff hunt, and I argued that all of that was going to happen regardless of keeping Kopitar, Brown and Quick. I argued that Carter, Muzzin and Quick all should have been dealt 4 years ago before it was too late to recover value.

And all that panned out that way. Now there are dead dollars and dead moral and dead leadership on a team in the middle of a talent gap that isn't as close to narrowing as some are assuming due to the recent quality added.

Change for changes sake was needed to freshen up a stale room littered with biggest group of retirement contacts the cap era has seen on any one roster. You see the damage of not making those changes in the way the roster quits on coaches, has awful practices, lets two goal deficits turn into five goal deficits at the drop of the hat. There is zero internal accountability and honestly, a real lack of reality in a group that still thought that they were contenders when they were done.

It was not clearly the best decision, because executives who know more than you, me, and everyone else on this board made a different decision.

And this was all done without your 2010 Edmonton Oilers route of trading away all current talent and acquiring a heap of magic beans and setting up the youth to fail by playing in a role they weren't ready for, which is what trading vets away would have done.

You frankly just don't trade away core cup winners just to maximize value. Players are more than assets. And change for the sake of change is incredibly foolish when navigating the direction of an organization of this magnitude.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kings fans who overrate the players on this team are going to be severely disappointed reading the comments from other league execs and scouts. This should quell those unrealistic expectations that the team will gain more first round picks for disappointing performers.

 

[KINGS17]

Wow!!! Huge move there.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

They wouldnt approve of such a move... and honestly, if you guys think its bad now... trade those 2 and we wouldnt sniff the playoffs for the next decade or so... Patience is the only remedy for this club now

As it stands now, this club isn’t making the playoffs for a very long time WITH those two. There’s no identity, the team chemistry is all out of whack. The culture is rotting and there’s zero accountability.

Turcotte, or Kupari aren’t coming to save this franchise.

 

[kilowatt]

Jon Rosen Mod • 2 minutes ago
Roster move comin'. See if you can guess what it is.

?????????????

I don't know....how about a JAD or Luff recall?
Vilardi activated and sent to the Reign?

wow rosen thanks for the hot goss

 

[DryIslandBartender]

The first overall pick is ours!!!

 

[kingsholygrail]

Kings fans who overrate the players on this team are going to be severely disappointed reading the comments from other league execs and scouts. This should quell those unrealistic expectations that the team will gain more first round picks for disappointing performers.

I've been saying it for several years now. Kings have a lot of unmoveable vets or they're more valuable staying here than being moved. They shoulda moved Clifford last year when he was at his peak. Shoulda moved Lewis a couple seasons ago. Those are guys you can get good value for because every contender needs depth. Most contenders don't need a Kopitar because they already got their Kopitar and that's why they're contenders.

 

[kings11]

As it stands now, this club isn’t making the playoffs for a very long time WITH those two. There’s no identity, the team chemistry is all out of whack. The culture is rotting and there’s zero accountability.

Turcotte, or Kupari aren’t coming to save this franchise.

The only thing worse than a lsoing franchise is a losing franchise with a bunch of nobodies and zero hope...
While a fallacy, having Kopitar and Doughty gives the franchise and fanbase something that's recognizable that they can point to along with the pipeline..
The playoffs can be had if tehy spend wise this offeason and a kid or two step up.. What everyone wants is a contender and without those two it wont happen..
There hasnt been a team in my lifetime at least that has gotten rid of their stars and been competitive within a decade..

 

[KINGS17]

The only thing worse than a lsoing franchise is a losing franchise with a bunch of nobodies and zero hope...
While a fallacy, having Kopitar and Doughty gives the franchise and fanbase something that's recognizable that they can point to along with the pipeline..
The playoffs can be had if tehy spend wise this offeason and a kid or two step up.. What everyone wants is a contender and without those two it wont happen..
There hasnt been a team in my lifetime at least that has gotten rid of their stars and been competitive within a decade..

Wait, I thought you promised us the Kings would make the playoffs this season?

 

[kings11]

I've been saying it for several years now. Kings have a lot of unmoveable vets or they're more valuable staying here than being moved. They shoulda moved Clifford last year when he was at his peak. Shoulda moved Lewis a couple seasons ago. Those are guys you can get good value for because every contender needs depth. Most contenders don't need a Kopitar because they already got their Kopitar and that's why they're contenders.

Not arguing your entire point but most teams do not have thir own Kopitar..
The Blues, VGK, NYI, Caps, Flyers, Falmes and Preds are all top 10 teams in the standing and they dont have a Kopitar.. they have depth which is what we dont have...

 

[kings11]

Wait, I thought you promised us the Kings would make the playoffs this season?

LT Dan snuck me some of his home made LSD...
Boy was i f***en wrong..

 

[KINGS17]

Not arguing your entire point but most teams do not have thir own Kopitar..
The Blues, VGK, NYI, Caps, Flyers, Falmes and Preds are all top 10 teams in the standing and they dont have a Kopitar.. they have depth which is what we dont have...

If only Ed Snider were still alive.

 

[Sol]

Last year was a different story, but management accepts losing this year, so it's tough for the players not to. That's what we want though. We want them to lose. If they care in too many games, they might win, and that's a problem. Even if the lottery allows for a few meaningless wins.



Again, part of that is management's message about this season. Do you want anyone that might have value to get hurt?



Like management accepting the run was over in 2015, at some point we have to accept that DL, and Blake for a year, didn't accept that. Ownership likely didn't either. They didn't make the right moves, and there's nothing to be done about it. There's nothing that can be done about Kopitar's contract. It's done. Accept it. We blame DL for living in the past, but that's all we do. Granted, there is nothing to talk about with the 19-20 Kings, until trades happen. They shouldn't have done anything they did after June 13th, 2014 up until November 13th, 2018, but they did. It's time to accept it.



Are there any players on the Kings that you would want if you were the GM of another team? Like right now. Or even over the summer.

Only a few Toffoli, Carter, and maybe even Quick on a good team if they're injured. While quick sucks ass, he can be sheltered by a good defensive team but it'd be difficult.

My point was that they waited too long to do anything meaningful.

 

[Sol]

By supplanting, I mean you have to have young players who can fill in/replace the roles of the older players you are trying to trade away. It's one of the best moves DL did, trading Johnson +, because Voynov was able to replace him. You have to have personnel who is able to fill in the new role, else you overspend on vets who have no future.

The UFA market is best as far as getting depth and filling holes. Replacing needs you artificially create is inefficient.

My point is, the Kings had a more pressing need than trading old and stale players. They had a developmental system whose best forward they developed internally is Tyler Toffoli. Kopitar played in Europe instead of developing in Ontario. Schenn and Simmonds were traded away before they were reliable top six forwards in the NHL. Iafallo and Lizotte, two college UFAs, outworked and outplayed all of them.

If the Kings didn't fix how they cultivated the prospects, especially at forward, what does it matter if you get 20 first round picks?

I'm not trying to maintain anything. I'm advocating focusing on the more pressing issue and fixing that first.

I think you are missing the point. There's nothing you can do to supplant these players. Furthermore, why even bother going UFA? You can sign some random college kids and let them try to do something. You're going to be sucking anyways.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

The only thing worse than a lsoing franchise is a losing franchise with a bunch of nobodies and zero hope...
While a fallacy, having Kopitar and Doughty gives the franchise and fanbase something that's recognizable that they can point to along with the pipeline..
The playoffs can be had if tehy spend wise this offeason and a kid or two step up.. What everyone wants is a contender and without those two it wont happen..
There hasnt been a team in my lifetime at least that has gotten rid of their stars and been competitive within a decade..

As I said, Kopitar and Doughty etc are paycheck players with the Kings. They aren’t leaders, they won’t lead the young guys coming up anywhere. They certainly aren’t stars anymore.

Kings need to move on, and start rebuilding towards a team they envision to have to win a cup again. This current group of paycheck players isn’t going to win anymore.

 

[kingsholygrail]

As I said, Kopitar and Doughty etc are paycheck players with the Kings. They aren’t leaders, they won’t lead the young guys coming up anywhere. They certainly aren’t stars anymore.

Kings need to move on, and start rebuilding towards a team they envision to have to win a cup again. This current group of paycheck players isn’t going to win anymore.

How are Kopitar and Doughty not stars?