2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

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King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
22,925
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I think it's been outlined where issues are.

The Kings are still "thinking" about where they need to be in the new system. Converting from playing one way dating back to 2008 takes a long time.

Playing at the top level where you have to think about what you're doing, instead of doing it instinctively, slows your game down and leads to miscues.

I have absolutely no problem with MacLellan. We hear how he's direct but respected by the players. The Kings are failing due to opportunities to learn instead of emotion and creativity lacking. It's a rebuilding year anyway.

This is a long term commitment to hockey that wasn't going to be fixed within 2 months.
 
Jul 31, 2005
8,839
1,485
CA
I knew they were going to be bad, I think I predicted in the 70's range. With no additions on defense the writing was on the wall as to how this season was going to go. The part that I don't like is the lack of push back. The whole roster seems to accept losing. After seeing the way they seem to accept losing the only thing has changed for me is this goes from a 3 year turnaround to a much longer re-build. And the problem with being bad in LA is that the fans stop coming to games, the owner wants to know why from the GM, the GM makes moves to put fans in the seats. There really is no reason to go to a Kings game right now, no top rookies, sulking over paid veterans, no fights, no hitting, there isn't even scrums or face washes.
 

Piston

Fire Luc and Blake
Jun 14, 2006
905
1,195
Santa Monica/Salt Lake
Exactly.

There was this second generation of talent the Kings have been hanging their collective hats on. The Kings didn't have anyone under the age of 30 who could hold a candle to top line duties, and as we see, not really anyone under the age of 30 who can regularly handle top six duties.

Fans can keep bemoaning the retention of Kopitar and Doughty all they want. But for as underwhelmed everyone has been by washed up Brown and Carter, NOBODY between the ages of 20-29 has taken the spot from them, where we could move a player to get younger and keep the cycle going.

So Blake is left with:
A.
- Keeping Kopitar and Doughty in charge, and wait for the youth to step up and take a spot
- Endure the suck and draft better

B.
- Trade Kopitar, Doughty, et al for magic beans
- Overspend on UFAs like DL had to with Handzus over a decade ago
- Count on Toffoli and Kempe to lead the charge

You can argue the rebuild would be further along if the Kings chose to suck sooner, but you're still leaning on Toffoli and Kempe to be leaders up front if you are dropping your vets. And they would be leaders even after signing "bridge deals" after those vets peter off.

Option A calls for a lot more patience and is much more practical. If you're for Option B, you have to be able to name a couple journeyman players between 20-29 who you count on to be leaders through a rebuild.


It's impossible to have this discussion without mentioning the elephant in the room. More than any other event leading to the current situation were the actions of Slava Voynov. Without Voynov, it is hard to see how we would have won the second Cup, and his absence has never been replaced. Walker may be impressing, but he is not Voynov and likely never will be. The loss of Voynov resulted in the loss of a #1 pick who would be 23-24 right now and hopefully playing a major role on the team. Voynov himself would be in his prime right now. Success or lack thereof in sports is often a result of happenstance. In this case, it worked against the Kings.
 

kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
18,684
21,757
Anyone see an improvement with TM? I know the Kings were a mess under WD but this is not good either.

Did Blake make a mistake firing Stevens a few years back? We made the playoffs and were eliminated in round 1 against Vegas.

Then last year the kings start the pre season and regular season terrible and Stevens is gone and it’s been a mess since then. Was this inevitable?

At this point, I don’t think anyone can out-coach our personnel failures. The guys on this team just aren’t good enough no matter how you cut it and we don’t have replacements for them. This is just going to be a tough season all around. Our best bet is to offload as many players as possible and hope some heart and soul role players are looking for jobs on July 1st. I don’t know which names specifically.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

We were right there
Oct 30, 2008
63,483
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I'm going to go back to a random complaint but I have major issue with the strength/conditioning coaches still. This team should not be visibly more gassed than everyone else on a night-to-night basis and especially on back-to-backs every year. Ever since the last dude left in 2014 to Calgary we've had a 'coach it's too hard' approach to active forechecking systems.
 

tny760

Registered User
Mar 12, 2017
20,447
22,260
i don't know that its actual physical capability based, so much as its "don'tgiveaf***itis"

sometimes when you present yourself with a built-in excuse like "oh well its a back to back you're gonna be tired", you put out less effort than you would otherwise

i'm hoping, long-term, it's one of those "play my system or we'll find someone that can" type deals with tmac cause i remember just how suffocating those forechecks anaheim and san jose threw at us for years, even ignoring how effective it was for us winning the cups
 
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BigKing

Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Mar 11, 2003
11,670
12,668
Belmont Shore, CA
google.com
Too many guys on this team play like they don't want to get hurt. Hockey is such an effort sport where intangible shit like hustle and grit can keep you at least competitive. The skill level isn't there so it becomes laughable in those games where there are too many passengers. It is no surprise that the Calgary games are the best of the season so far since Calgary is the only team to get up for the Kings and ramp up the physicality and cheap shit. If the other team doesn't bring it, the Kings are more than happy to treat it like an exhibition.
 

bland

Registered User
Jul 1, 2004
7,969
12,201
Did you just completely overlook the points I made so you can make a pointless and sarcastic post?

Please feel free to discuss with others.



You're right and I apologize. I agree that cost-effective players is key.

I DO strongly disagree with making change just for the sake of change. If you make a directionless move, you have a meaningless message other than "We don't like the way things are, and we don't know why."

Lifers were NEVER safe and secure in my post. Ultimately, players in the system have to force their way onto the lineup, just the same way King and Nolan forced themselves into the lineup. Just the same way Voynov made it easier to trade Jack Johnson.

No GM worth their salt will trade away the top players who won the cup just because the team isn't as strong a contender as before. Notice that Quick is no longer "safe" even though he's universally revered as one of the best Kings goalies ever. Cal Petersen has stepped up in the organization. Once Turcotte, Vilardi, JAD, ANYONE can step up and be the #1 center, trade Kopitar. Nobody has overcome a now 35 year-old Dustin Brown who has frustrated you and me for the past 10+ years.

I think for the most part we're on the same page, but you feel a GM needs to make a move which is indefensible: trading away a core cup winner with absolutely nothing in the pipeline to replace him, all to start a rebuild a year after winning the cup. You'll be vetoed by ownership at best, with other consequences including unemployed.
Yet it was clearly the best decsion.

I didn't advocate trading a Kopitar in the middle of a contract, I advocated trading him instead of maxing him out. It was always going to be bad business. The Kings weren't going to get anywhere near full value out of that deal, not even half of it.

The timing is the issue here. So many arguing against this are looking at it in a vacuum instead of reading the terrain, which is usually the biggest source of conflict I have with other posters.

Once the 14-15 season ended, and the host of problems Lombardi had created for.the back end of his era were starting to develop, it was clear that the organization had to take a more pragmatic and less fanciful view of the future. At that point you look at your asset list, see that it is totally bereft of talent, and the only realistic conclusion is that you don't have enough - hell, any - cost-controlled assets to supplement your aging roster. A gap was inevitable.

Now all the folks that lamented about losing their favorite players were arguing that trading them away would hurt attendance, hurt moral, take them out of the playoff hunt, and I argued that all of that was going to happen regardless of keeping Kopitar, Brown and Quick. I argued that Carter, Muzzin and Quick all should have been dealt 4 years ago before it was too late to recover value.

And all that panned out that way. Now there are dead dollars and dead moral and dead leadership on a team in the middle of a talent gap that isn't as close to narrowing as some are assuming due to the recent quality added.

Change for changes sake was needed to freshen up a stale room littered with biggest group of retirement contacts the cap era has seen on any one roster. You see the damage of not making those changes in the way the roster quits on coaches, has awful practices, lets two goal deficits turn into five goal deficits at the drop of the hat. There is zero internal accountability and honestly, a real lack of reality in a group that still thought that they were contenders when they were done.
 
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Ziggy Stardust

Master Debater
Jul 25, 2002
63,608
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Too many guys on this team play like they don't want to get hurt. Hockey is such an effort sport where intangible **** like hustle and grit can keep you at least competitive. The skill level isn't there so it becomes laughable in those games where there are too many passengers. It is no surprise that the Calgary games are the best of the season so far since Calgary is the only team to get up for the Kings and ramp up the physicality and cheap ****. If the other team doesn't bring it, the Kings are more than happy to treat it like an exhibition.

 
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fivehole32

Kicking rebounds to the slot
Jan 11, 2015
482
621
Change for changes sake was needed to freshen up a stale room littered with biggest group of retirement contacts the cap era has seen on any one roster. You see the damage of not making those changes in the way the roster quits on coaches, has awful practices, lets two goal deficits turn into five goal deficits at the drop of the hat. There is zero internal accountability and honestly, a real lack of reality in a group that still thought that they were contenders when they were done.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. My fear and the reason I doubt we will see any of our higher ranked prospects in the line up soon is the room is still pretty toxic. Its going to take a flush out of this year to hopefully get it right. Players like Lizotte are a step in the right direction, you see maximum effort from him every time he steps on the ice so I would imagine his prep is in line with that.
 

tny760

Registered User
Mar 12, 2017
20,447
22,260


Looks like Adrian Kempe may be a healthy scratch.

lewis did 2nd rotations vs vancouver but still played, might just be a tmac thing

nice to see that it's a possibility though, he's actually forcing kempe to outperform prokhorkin
 

Kingsfan1

Registered User
Oct 1, 2006
4,256
1,216
Staples Center
I was one of the ones who was very excited and happy for Tmac being hired but his lines that he keeps putting together are starting to annoy me more and more . For one I don’t understand why the f***kkk Prokhorkin hasn’t been playing he’s probably better than half the roster and hasn’t been given an opportunity. Iaffalo still on the top line , he doesn’t belong there . And he keeps playing Quick. Go one game Campbell one game quick like the rest of the f***en league
 
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Sol

Smile
Jun 30, 2017
24,547
20,707
I don't care about Tmac. He's obviously better than Willie and Stevens.


I despise that DL and Blake didn't get rid of these useless vets sooner. I'll never understand. Even many kings fans up until now have had this weird love boner for the old guard. Finally people are waking up.


The vets do nothing and they can f*** off for all I care. f*** DL and f*** Blake too for the mess the Kings are in.
 

Sol

Smile
Jun 30, 2017
24,547
20,707
Did you just completely overlook the points I made so you can make a pointless and sarcastic post?

Please feel free to discuss with others.



You're right and I apologize. I agree that cost-effective players is key.

I DO strongly disagree with making change just for the sake of change. If you make a directionless move, you have a meaningless message other than "We don't like the way things are, and we don't know why."

Lifers were NEVER safe and secure in my post. Ultimately, players in the system have to force their way onto the lineup, just the same way King and Nolan forced themselves into the lineup. Just the same way Voynov made it easier to trade Jack Johnson.

No GM worth their salt will trade away the top players who won the cup just because the team isn't as strong a contender as before. Notice that Quick is no longer "safe" even though he's universally revered as one of the best Kings goalies ever. Cal Petersen has stepped up in the organization. Once Turcotte, Vilardi, JAD, ANYONE can step up and be the #1 center, trade Kopitar. Nobody has overcome a now 35 year-old Dustin Brown who has frustrated you and me for the past 10+ years.

I think for the most part we're on the same page, but you feel a GM needs to make a move which is indefensible: trading away a core cup winner with absolutely nothing in the pipeline to replace him, all to start a rebuild a year after winning the cup. You'll be vetoed by ownership at best, with other consequences including unemployed.


You think handing out terms to "cup winners" to a team that started sucking heavily in 2016 is a good idea or not? The fact we haven't gotten rid of a key cog yet is mind blowing.

To your question, would I rather have proven vets who are over the hill and doing dick over randoms making 1 million a year. I'll take the randoms because why suck and have retirement contracts vs randoms sucking and being gone in a year or two.


"forcing your way into the roster" while there are piece of shit players on the same roster who don't get sat because of their seniority.


The most hypocritical thing in hockey I still see is this pathetic notion that Rookies need to go above and beyond to make the roster, while the old vets who are coasting will play every game.


Where's the accountability in that?

Kings organization has always been too loyal to their players. Always been the biggest problem is unwarranted loyalty.


Still paying Mike Richards cause he whispered sweet nothings into Dls ear.



Pathetic organization. Won cups and made every error they possibly could to fall as hard as they could from grace.
 
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Lt Dan

F*** your ice cream!
Sep 13, 2018
12,125
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Looks like Adrian Kempe may be a healthy scratch.

tenor.gif
 

King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
22,925
23,493
You think handing out terms to "cup winners" to a team that started sucking heavily in 2016 is a good idea or not? The fact we haven't gotten rid of a key cog yet is mind blowing.

To your question, would I rather have proven vets who are over the hill and doing dick over randoms making 1 million a year. I'll take the randoms because why suck and have retirement contracts vs randoms sucking and being gone in a year or two.

To players like Kopitar and Doughty? Absolutely. I actually prefer keeping terms to five years, but the ugly reality is you either pay a premium for a shorter contract or you add years to make the overall hit more palatable.

The fact the Kings haven't rid themselves of a key cog yet has been explained. Nobody in the org has been good enough to supplant them. That's on the org.

The funniest part is thinking you'd get someone to agree to a top 6 or top pairing role for $1 million. You overspend in UFA.
 

Sol

Smile
Jun 30, 2017
24,547
20,707
To players like Kopitar and Doughty? Absolutely. I actually prefer keeping terms to five years, but the ugly reality is you either pay a premium for a shorter contract or you add years to make the overall hit more palatable.

The fact the Kings haven't rid themselves of a key cog yet has been explained. Nobody in the org has been good enough to supplant them. That's on the org.

The funniest part is thinking you'd get someone to agree to a top 6 or top pairing role for $1 million. You overspend in UFA.

I'm curious. What is there to exactly supplant. We're not winning, are you implying with "worse" players the Kings can somehow go beyond 31st towards being relegated to the ECHL?

Supplanting these players would imply there would be something you're actually trying to retain. The suck?

Yeah the Kings drafted very poorly under DL that's true. But again, if the team is twirling around last place for a few years now, what exactly are you trying to maintain?

I do agree I wish NHL contracts topped out to 5 years.

Doughty has been so damn bad its insane. I used to see so many stellar displays of his defensive awareness, now he's not doing anything. I haven't seen him do a thing that'd separate him from Martinez if they both wore the same number.


Kopitar and Doughty deferring to eachother nonstop is the most irritating thing I've ever seen on the PP. Idk why 2 passive players are running a power play.
 
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KingsFan7824

Registered User
Dec 4, 2003
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I knew they were going to be bad, I think I predicted in the 70's range. With no additions on defense the writing was on the wall as to how this season was going to go. The part that I don't like is the lack of push back. The whole roster seems to accept losing. After seeing the way they seem to accept losing the only thing has changed for me is this goes from a 3 year turnaround to a much longer re-build. And the problem with being bad in LA is that the fans stop coming to games, the owner wants to know why from the GM, the GM makes moves to put fans in the seats. There really is no reason to go to a Kings game right now, no top rookies, sulking over paid veterans, no fights, no hitting, there isn't even scrums or face washes.

Last year was a different story, but management accepts losing this year, so it's tough for the players not to. That's what we want though. We want them to lose. If they care in too many games, they might win, and that's a problem. Even if the lottery allows for a few meaningless wins.

Too many guys on this team play like they don't want to get hurt. Hockey is such an effort sport where intangible **** like hustle and grit can keep you at least competitive. The skill level isn't there so it becomes laughable in those games where there are too many passengers. It is no surprise that the Calgary games are the best of the season so far since Calgary is the only team to get up for the Kings and ramp up the physicality and cheap ****. If the other team doesn't bring it, the Kings are more than happy to treat it like an exhibition.

Again, part of that is management's message about this season. Do you want anyone that might have value to get hurt?

Yet it was clearly the best decsion.

I didn't advocate trading a Kopitar in the middle of a contract, I advocated trading him instead of maxing him out. It was always going to be bad business. The Kings weren't going to get anywhere near full value out of that deal, not even half of it.

The timing is the issue here. So many arguing against this are looking at it in a vacuum instead of reading the terrain, which is usually the biggest source of conflict I have with other posters.

Once the 14-15 season ended, and the host of problems Lombardi had created for.the back end of his era were starting to develop, it was clear that the organization had to take a more pragmatic and less fanciful view of the future. At that point you look at your asset list, see that it is totally bereft of talent, and the only realistic conclusion is that you don't have enough - hell, any - cost-controlled assets to supplement your aging roster. A gap was inevitable.

Now all the folks that lamented about losing their favorite players were arguing that trading them away would hurt attendance, hurt moral, take them out of the playoff hunt, and I argued that all of that was going to happen regardless of keeping Kopitar, Brown and Quick. I argued that Carter, Muzzin and Quick all should have been dealt 4 years ago before it was too late to recover value.

And all that panned out that way. Now there are dead dollars and dead moral and dead leadership on a team in the middle of a talent gap that isn't as close to narrowing as some are assuming due to the recent quality added.

Change for changes sake was needed to freshen up a stale room littered with biggest group of retirement contacts the cap era has seen on any one roster. You see the damage of not making those changes in the way the roster quits on coaches, has awful practices, lets two goal deficits turn into five goal deficits at the drop of the hat. There is zero internal accountability and honestly, a real lack of reality in a group that still thought that they were contenders when they were done.

Like management accepting the run was over in 2015, at some point we have to accept that DL, and Blake for a year, didn't accept that. Ownership likely didn't either. They didn't make the right moves, and there's nothing to be done about it. There's nothing that can be done about Kopitar's contract. It's done. Accept it. We blame DL for living in the past, but that's all we do. Granted, there is nothing to talk about with the 19-20 Kings, until trades happen. They shouldn't have done anything they did after June 13th, 2014 up until November 13th, 2018, but they did. It's time to accept it.


Are there any players on the Kings that you would want if you were the GM of another team? Like right now. Or even over the summer.
 
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