2019-20 Kings News/Rumors

[King'sPawn]

Yes, I favor the Lombardi route. You trade the old assets you have to acquire younger assets. Then you keep sucking by signing older free agents to short term contracts until your young assets are ready.

Tell me, what good are Doughty and Kopitar doing for the Kings at this point in time? Are they outstanding leaders? What is happening now, is what many predicted would happen.

What good could the assets we would have received for them in a trade do for the Kings in the future? We'll never know.

But you don't trade every old asset. That's the point you keep overlooking.

How many teams trade their top homegrown players with whom they won the cup and there's nobody in the system who has shown the ability to outperform them? And they didn't ask for a trade?

Please take your time.

 

[Butch 19]

And the Oilers are good because of a generational player you can't expect to fall on your lap. If that's your model of success, then there's very little left to discuss.

well, McJesus AND several more top 10 pix over a 7 or 8 yr span...

If Oilers ever win a Cup ( ), they will need more **** on the Cup than any team in any sport I've ever seen.

 

[KINGS17]

But you don't trade every old asset. That's the point you keep overlooking.

How many teams trade their top homegrown players with whom they won the cup and there's nobody in the system who has shown the ability to outperform them? And they didn't ask for a trade?

Please take your time.

Fine, you keep Brown, Lewis, Muzzin, Quick. You acquire new vets who are known leaders, like the kids did with Handzus. You trade the ones who have the most value and aren't offering much in terms of leadership or accountability.

Again, what good has come of keeping Kopitar/Doughty? The "can't trade every old asset" is the same argument you made for keeping Carter. How is that working out?

 

[King'sPawn]

Fine, you keep Brown, Lewis, Muzzin, Quick. You acquire new vets who are known leaders, like the kids did with Handzus. You trade the ones who have the most value and aren't offering much in terms of leadership or accountability.

Again, what good has come of keeping Kopitar/Doughty? The "can't trade every old asset" is the same argument you made for keeping Carter. How is that working out?

- I never said "you can't trade every old asset" in my argument for keeping Carter. My argument has always been you can't trade Carter unless you have someone in the system who is ready to replace him. Until you do, why not keep him? Up until last year, he was the most consistent player production wise, and thus would be the easiest veteran for young players to play with. He was exactly the player you advocated signing as a free agent, and you wanted to trade him away.
- I specifically said in my previous post any respectable team doesn't trade away their top homegrown players they won a cup with unless they asked for a trade and there's nobody who can match their production. I said nothing about Brown, Lewis, and Muzzin, who have never been the top players. Quick has Cal Petersen and Jack Campbell outproducing him, so.... again, you're apparently ignoring my points and arguments.

You have this obsession with trading away every good player as soon as they reach the ripe OLD age of 29, and then overspending on the UFA market to replace them (because you almost undoubtedly overpay when bringing in mercenaries). You look only of these players as assets, and not people. This is a very toxic mindset for a manager to have.

As to how it's working out? I dunno. Kings prospect pool looks pretty good as does the future. It's almost as if good drafting and developing is making a difference. Keeping these vets didn't put the Kings in the black hole last year and are scraping the bottom of the league again this year. Didn't you say the Kings would be a black hole team with them?

Either way, you're seemingly ignoring my points and making up stuff about what I'm arguing, so please feel free to argue with someone else.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The Kings are officially #1... in the order of waiver priority.

 

[KINGS17]

- I never said "you can't trade every old asset" in my argument for keeping Carter. My argument has always been you can't trade Carter unless you have someone in the system who is ready to replace him. Until you do, why not keep him? Up until last year, he was the most consistent player production wise, and thus would be the easiest veteran for young players to play with. He was exactly the player you advocated signing as a free agent, and you wanted to trade him away.
- I specifically said in my previous post any respectable team doesn't trade away their top homegrown players they won a cup with unless they asked for a trade and there's nobody who can match their production. I said nothing about Brown, Lewis, and Muzzin, who have never been the top players. Quick has Cal Petersen and Jack Campbell outproducing him, so.... again, you're apparently ignoring my points and arguments.

You have this obsession with trading away every good player as soon as they reach the ripe OLD age of 29, and then overspending on the UFA market to replace them (because you almost undoubtedly overpay when bringing in mercenaries). You look only of these players as assets, and not people. This is a very toxic mindset for a manager to have.

As to how it's working out? I dunno. Kings prospect pool looks pretty good as does the future. It's almost as if good drafting and developing is making a difference. Keeping these vets didn't put the Kings in the black hole last year and are scraping the bottom of the league again this year. Didn't you say the Kings would be a black hole team with them?

Either way, you're seemingly ignoring my points and making up stuff about what I'm arguing, so please feel free to argue with someone else.

Why must you have a player in the system that can play the 2C before you trade Carter? The whole point of trading him is to get younger.

Why not keep him? Because he is a depreciating asset, and the Kings can lose without him just as easily as they are losing with him. I don't want to trade every older player, just the ones who aren't necessarily required for leadership purposes on a rebuilding team, and bring the highest return in a trade.

The Kings prospect pool could have been much better, much faster, had they moved some of these guys out for picks and prospects two or three years ago.

 

[Fishhead]

If Carter keeps it up, this may be the year. His contract will scare some off, but every year there's a playoff team with unexpected injuries that brings someone in for help. Same thing with Lewis and Toffoli, and to a lesser extent Martinez. I think Blake will definitely take advantage should the opportunity arise.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Vets are needed? Yes, that's why Dean signed guys like Handzus back in the day.

Fair, but when the good guys are already here, and frankly we'll likely need their CAP hits to stay compliant lol, why aren't Kopitar and Doughty the bridge players?

Why must you have a player in the system that can play the 2C before you trade Carter? The whole point of trading him is to get younger.

Why not keep him? Because he is a depreciating asset, and the Kings can lose without him just as easily as they are losing with him. I don't want to trade every older player, just the ones who aren't necessarily required for leadership purposes on a rebuilding team, and bring the highest return in a trade.

The Kings prospect pool could have been much better, much faster, had they moved some of these guys out for picks and prospects two or three years ago.

So you don't rush and destroy a prospect, hence the many examples earlier.

Did you see David Pastrnak's 18 and 19 year old seasons before he stuck around and broke out at 20? Can you imagine if they had him as 1C instead of Bergeron (yes I know he's a wing).?

Hey, if hte prospect forces a guy off the roster, great! But why hand it to him?

 

[KINGS17]

Fair, but when the good guys are already here, and frankly we'll likely need their CAP hits to stay compliant lol, why aren't Kopitar and Doughty the bridge players?




So you don't rush and destroy a prospect, hence the many examples earlier.

Did you see David Pastrnak's 18 and 19 year old seasons before he stuck around and broke out at 20? Can you imagine if they had him as 1C instead of Bergeron (yes I know he's a wing).?

Hey, if hte prospect forces a guy off the roster, great! But why hand it to him?

Where did I say ruin a prospect. The Kings aren't going to win a damn thing for the foreseeable future. Go out and get the zombie corpse of Derek Armstrong to play 2C for for 2 or 3 seasons for all I care.

You guys keep making assumptions to invalidate my approach, but each and every time you come up with something you know I am not advocating, like trading all of the vets, or playing a prospect in the NHL before he is ready.

 

[bland]

Kopitar was re-signed at a time when the team was descending from the top, and the most likely scenario was an extended descent well past the contention level due to a complete lack of cost-controlled assets to supplement the team.

A full rebuild was put off to the teams detriment, but it was inevitable. The only real value the team would receive during his 8 year deal was most likely to be in the first half of his contract. It was most likely to be a time frame in which the team was not.going to be competitive. Not only did that prove out to be true for the team, the player responded by having two of his worst years in the first three years of the deal, sandwiching what was likely his best year in which it meant absolutely nothing for the team who was swept away in the first round.

It was simply bad business.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Kopitar was re-signed at a time when the team was descending from the top, and the most likely scenario was an extended descent well past the contention level due to a complete lack of cost-controlled assets to supplement the team.

A full rebuild was put off to the teams detriment, but it was inevitable. The only real value the team would receive during his 8 year deal was most likely to be in the first half of his contract. It was most likely to be a time frame in which the team was not.going to be competitive. Not only did that prove out to be true for the team, the player responded by having two of his worst years in the first three years of the deal, sandwiching what was likely his best year in which it meant absolutely nothing for the team who was swept away in the first round.

It was simply bad business.

The day Kopitar was signed, the Kings were 1st on the division, by almost 10 points, 4th in the conference, and tied for 5th overall in the league. It was almost the worst possible time to sign him. Not quite as bad as handing Quick a monster contract to cheat the cap days after the peak of his career, but close. If only the team had been bad that year. Then, maybe, they would've understood. Although, they already had the 2 Cups by then, they had already given Quick and Brown their thank you contracts, and they weren't going to start dumping guys with Kopitar as the first off the plank.

There was no choice to make. They weren't trading Kopitar when they were that high in the standings. No GM would make that move in that context. It's crazy to expect a GM to make a move in that context. January 2016 was far too late to talk about a trade. That had to be done in the summer of 2015, at the latest, and DL was clearly not going down that road. That wasn't even an idea at the time, whether or not they got Lucic. They weren't going to let him walk. What's the option by then?

 

[KINGS17]

The day Kopitar was signed, the Kings were 1st on the division, by almost 10 points, 4th in the conference, and tied for 5th overall in the league. It was almost the worst possible time to sign him. Not quite as bad as handing Quick a monster contract to cheat the cap days after the peak of his career, but close. If only the team had been bad that year. Then, maybe, they would've understood. Although, they already had the 2 Cups by then, they had already given Quick and Brown their thank you contracts, and they weren't going to start dumping guys with Kopitar as the first off the plank.

There was no choice to make. They weren't trading Kopitar when they were that high in the standings. No GM would make that move in that context. It's crazy to expect a GM to make a move in that context. January 2016 was far too late to talk about a trade. That had to be done in the summer of 2015, at the latest, and DL was clearly not going down that road. That wasn't even an idea at the time, whether or not they got Lucic. They weren't going to let him walk. What's the option by then?

Should have traded him in the summer before that season.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I think what Kings17 doesn't understand is that in a salary cap league, the most value a very good player will ever have is when that player is performing at a high level on his ELC. You do not want to waste those years by not having the right type of expensive talent to surround them with.

The reality is that the next three or four years for us could be our best chance for a long time to compete for a cup. If we are able to surround our current crop of prospects, just to name a few; Next years high first round pick, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Kupari, Anderson, Bjornfot, etc... With established legitimate NHL talent we might be able to field a very talented team built around excellent and cheap ELC production.

It would be a real shame to waste that. Sow do the obvious thing and keep a guy like Kopi who has 4 years left after this one (almost perfect) which would be tough to replicate in the ufa market as even if we could get a big time player to come here he will probably want a much longer term contract that will overlap when we will need to pay the next wave of Kings.

Now if this current batch of prospects is a big bust then yes we should trade Kopi and probably Doughty to if possible.

I am operating under the idea that we have good nhl prospects at the moment so I do not want to waste their ELC'S It's just bad cap management.

 

[Schmooley]

If Vilardi and Kaliyev reach their full potential at the nhl level it will do wonders for the team. Along with Turcotte, thats 3 players that are in the top 5 talents of their draft. Add another two top 5 picks (one dman and one more forward) and your pretty much looking to fill out the rest of the roster with complimentary and role players.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I think what Kings17 doesn't understand is that in a salary cap league, the most value a very good player will ever have is when that player is performing at a high level on his ELC.

I don't think that's true at all. I would say unrealistic expectations for what a GM can/likely will do. After 2012, and then 2014 on top of that, there was nothing else the Kings were going to do with Kopitar and Doughty, provided they wanted to stay. They went all in on Quick, they went all in on Brown, and they weren't going to start not doing that with two even more important players. If those two need to go before their big 3rd contract as UFA's, the team can't win in 2012. They certainly can't then validate that run with another one(as potentially even more improbable as the 2nd one was). They almost can't even contend at all. Can't get Carter, can't get Richards, can't even get Penner. That's two 1st's, and two quality young forwards before the team ever gets out of the 1st round. That's a high price to pay prior to any real success.

 

[KINGS17]

I think what Kings17 doesn't understand is that in a salary cap league, the most value a very good player will ever have is when that player is performing at a high level on his ELC. You do not want to waste those years by not having the right type of expensive talent to surround them with.

The reality is that the next three or four years for us could be our best chance for a long time to compete for a cup. If we are able to surround our current crop of prospects, just to name a few; Next years high first round pick, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Kupari, Anderson, Bjornfot, etc... With established legitimate NHL talent we might be able to field a very talented team built around excellent and cheap ELC production.

It would be a real shame to waste that. Sow do the obvious thing and keep a guy like Kopi who has 4 years left after this one (almost perfect) which would be tough to replicate in the ufa market as even if we could get a big time player to come here he will probably want a much longer term contract that will overlap when we will need to pay the next wave of Kings.

Now if this current batch of prospects is a big bust then yes we should trade Kopi and probably Doughty to if possible.

I am operating under the idea that we have good nhl prospects at the moment so I do not want to waste their ELC'S It's just bad cap management.

Wow, not even close. Most of the guys you mentioned are teenagers. You think all five of those are going to make an impact within the next three years, plus at age 35 Kopitar will still be at the top of his game?

I don't think the Kings will be wasting their ELCs, because I don't expect Turcotte, Kaliyev, Kupari, and Bjornfot to all be fixtures on the Kings roster any sooner than the 2021-22 season, and more likely 2022-23. They aren't going to come into the NHL and tear it up their first or second season.

Another top 5 overall draft pick in the next draft pick is what Kings fans really have to be looking forward to this season and maybe next.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Wow, not even close. Most of the guys you mentioned are teenagers. You think all five of those are going to make an impact within the next three years, plus at age 35 Kopitar will still be at the top of his game?

I don't think the Kings will be wasting their ELCs, because I don't expect Turcotte, Kaliyev, Kupari, and Bjornfot to all be fixtures on the Kings roster any sooner than the 2021-22 season, and more likely 2022-23. They aren't going to come into the NHL and tear it up their first or second season.

Another top 5 overall draft pick in the next draft pick is what Kings fans really have to be looking forward to this season and maybe next.

Yeah I think a lot of our prospects will be improving our team significantly over the next three to four years. Wea are universally ranked as one of the very best prospect pools in the NHL. And that's without this next year's first. Which will likely add another elite prospect to our pool.

You are looking at one of the top up and coming teams in the NHL over the next four or so years. Enjoy.

 

[KINGS17]

Yeah I think a lot of our prospects will be improving our team significantly over the next three to four years. Wea are universally ranked as one of the very best prospect pools in the NHL. And that's without this next year's first. Which will likely add another elite prospect to our pool.

You are looking at one of the top up and coming teams in the NHL over the next four or so years. Enjoy.

Up and coming, yes. Stanley Cup contenders, no.

 

[Fishhead]

Up and coming, yes. Stanley Cup contenders, no.

That contender part is going to depend on getting them all in the right age groups, being in the right positional slots, peaking around the same time, and identifying/adding the proper veterans. It's a lot to fall in place and I hope Blake continues to work on the young core and doesn't jump the gun on acquisitions. I think TM can get the team there if he has the roster. He may well have in SJ but they were peaking at the time when LA and Chicago were buzzsawing everyone and StL was a force. Gotta play their cards right.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Like I said there is no better time to compete then when you have young productive players on ELC'S. We are going to have that very very soon. Now will we have veteran talent to surround them with? Well Kopi and Doughty are a very good start. Going to have to find some others to truly compete, but that is something we should be able to figure out.

 

[Verdadplus]

well, McJesus AND several more top 10 pix over a 7 or 8 yr span...

If Oilers ever win a Cup ( ), they will need more **** on the Cup than any team in any sport I've ever seen.

What do you mean?
Kings very soon must come to terms with disposing of Doughty and Kopitar.
But the challenge is who will take them with contracts that now unreasonable.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

'Stanley Cup contenders' - The St Louis Blues by any definition of being a Stanley Cup contender last year was...well, they would not have fit any, except as a longshot contender.
The year before, the Golden Knights were not supposed to make the payoffs in their inaugural year and they go to the finals.

Today, anything is possible given the right coaching, chemistry, special teams, luck, no-name players emerging, character and hot goaltending. If you can have a mix of all of that,
you can win the Stanley Cup.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

 

[KINGS17]

- I never said "you can't trade every old asset" in my argument for keeping Carter. My argument has always been you can't trade Carter unless you have someone in the system who is ready to replace him. Until you do, why not keep him? Up until last year, he was the most consistent player production wise, and thus would be the easiest veteran for young players to play with. He was exactly the player you advocated signing as a free agent, and you wanted to trade him away.
- I specifically said in my previous post any respectable team doesn't trade away their top homegrown players they won a cup with unless they asked for a trade and there's nobody who can match their production. I said nothing about Brown, Lewis, and Muzzin, who have never been the top players. Quick has Cal Petersen and Jack Campbell outproducing him, so.... again, you're apparently ignoring my points and arguments.

You have this obsession with trading away every good player as soon as they reach the ripe OLD age of 29, and then overspending on the UFA market to replace them (because you almost undoubtedly overpay when bringing in mercenaries). You look only of these players as assets, and not people. This is a very toxic mindset for a manager to have.

As to how it's working out? I dunno. Kings prospect pool looks pretty good as does the future. It's almost as if good drafting and developing is making a difference. Keeping these vets didn't put the Kings in the black hole last year and are scraping the bottom of the league again this year. Didn't you say the Kings would be a black hole team with them?

Either way, you're seemingly ignoring my points and making up stuff about what I'm arguing, so please feel free to argue with someone else.

Likewise, because I never said trade ALL the vets. Each and every time it has been suggested it's time to trade a forward like Kopitar or Carter you have basically said, "Nope gotta keep him because we don't have a replacement for that player in the system." Well, no kidding, and why would it matter?

 

[kilowatt]

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